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Post by fine09 on Aug 22, 2023 7:53:25 GMT -5
Bleacherreport.com has a list of the All overpaid free agents in 2023 (so far) including their runner-ups & there were quite a few guys on there that were being discussed as free agent targets for the Cubs this past off-season.
Starting pitcher - Carlos Rodon -0.5 bWAR signed to a 6 year 162 million dollar deal.
Catcher - Christian Vazquez - -0.2 bWAR signed to a 3 year 30 million dollar deal.
1B - Jose Abreu - -1.0 bWAR - signed to a 3 year 59 million dollar deal.
SS - Carlos Correa - 1/3 bWAR signed to a 6 year 199 million dollar deal.
Now this is year 1 of these deals so maybe some of have a drastic turn around but at least for now it looks like the Cubs dodged a bullet so to speak..
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Post by batman66 on Aug 22, 2023 8:48:06 GMT -5
Bleacherreport.com has a list of the All overpaid free agents in 2023 (so far) including their runner-ups & there were quite a few guys on there that were being discussed as free agent targets for the Cubs this past off-season. Starting pitcher - Carlos Rodon -0.5 bWAR signed to a 6 year 162 million dollar deal. Catcher - Christian Vazquez - -0.2 bWAR signed to a 3 year 30 million dollar deal. 1B - Jose Abreu - -1.0 bWAR - signed to a 3 year 59 million dollar deal. SS - Carlos Correa - 1/3 bWAR signed to a 6 year 199 million dollar deal. Now this is year 1 of these deals so maybe some of have a drastic turn around but at least for now it looks like the Cubs dodged a bullet so to speak.. Lol, and we are upset and complain about the failed free agents they did sign , they wasted money and roster spots on Hosmer, Mancini and Barnhart . It could have been a lot worse if they signed those guys although they still have more seasons to turn it around , Correa probably will eventually , but I'm not betting the others will. The sad thing is , almost every single one of us wanted all of those guys although Correa was never my choice for the SS that I hoped they'd sign but I really wanted Rodon even though I always had worries about his injury history.
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Post by lu13cubbie on Aug 22, 2023 8:59:10 GMT -5
I didn't want any of those guys. I didn't want Suzuki either, though. I also wanted Turner over Swanson, but was happy with Swanson after the contract Turner got.
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Post by fine09 on Aug 22, 2023 9:27:56 GMT -5
I didn't want any of those guys. I didn't want Suzuki either, though. I also wanted Turner over Swanson, but was happy with Swanson after the contract Turner got. I was in favor of looking at Abreu until they mentioned the 3 year deal but I would have been more than ok with a 2 year 30 mil deal so thankfully that never happened. & thought that Correa would have been one of the 3 guys besides Dansby that had the potential to be worth his deal for a few years anyway so I am also happy they avoided that one. The other 2 guys I wanted to stay clear of especially Rodon due to the potential for long term injuries as his past suggested.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 22, 2023 9:50:10 GMT -5
Funny reading these type of posts and then looking back at the offseason thread lol
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Post by TheChico on Aug 22, 2023 10:58:52 GMT -5
Funny reading these type of posts and then looking back at the offseason thread lol That is why us fans should never run a baseball team lol Jed made some whiffs this offseason but they are not long term impacts ones, they can easily eat the $10 million next season while not hindering what they want to do.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2023 11:19:09 GMT -5
Funny reading these type of posts and then looking back at the offseason thread lol Yup, guilty as charged. I remember really wanting & hoping for Rodon but can't recall the years or AAV.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 22, 2023 11:56:58 GMT -5
We all wanted certain players who didn't work out. We all wanted certain players every year that do and don't work out. Lets look at the FA's.
Correa - Twins are in 1st place Turner - Phillies hold the #1 wild card spot Swanson - Cubs hold #2 WC spot Abreu - Astros hold #2 WC spot Vazquez - Twins in 1st place
Rodon - season over
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Post by batman66 on Aug 22, 2023 12:51:32 GMT -5
We all wanted certain players who didn't work out. We all wanted certain players every year that do and don't work out. Lets look at the FA's. Correa - Twins are in 1st place Turner - Phillies hold the #1 wild card spot Swanson - Cubs hold #2 WC spot Abreu - Astros hold #2 WC spot Vazquez - Twins in 1st place Rodon - season over But how many have had a positive impact on those teams being where they are? Other than Swanson , none until Turner recently became himself again.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 22, 2023 13:04:25 GMT -5
We all wanted certain players who didn't work out. We all wanted certain players every year that do and don't work out. Lets look at the FA's. Correa - Twins are in 1st place Turner - Phillies hold the #1 wild card spot Swanson - Cubs hold #2 WC spot Abreu - Astros hold #2 WC spot Vazquez - Twins in 1st place Rodon - season over But how many have had a positive impact on those teams being where they are? Other than Swanson , none until Turner recently became himself again. Oh how I knew this was coming... Yeah, Swanson's 104 OPS+ is lighting the Cubs on fire. Maybe it's his .175/.257 August? Just stop it already. They ALL have helped their teams win. EDIT: This is the apologist bullshit I talk about. Only Swanson has had a positive impact on his team pfffftttt
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Post by fine09 on Aug 22, 2023 13:28:03 GMT -5
But how many have had a positive impact on those teams being where they are? Other than Swanson , none until Turner recently became himself again. Oh how I knew this was coming... Yeah, Swanson's 104 OPS+ is lighting the Cubs on fire. Maybe it's his .175/.257 August? Just stop it already. They ALL have helped their teams win. EDIT: This is the apologist bullshit I talk about. Only Swanson has had a positive impact on his team pfffftttt Steve, gauging a players value SOLELY with an offense metric like wRC+ is no more accurate than gauging a player solely by his defense which is NEVER done.. We should use a value indicator that reflects both offense & defense so in this case I'd say the closest thing to use is bWAR or fWAR which in the case of Swanson is a 3.9 fWAR in 420 at bats & Correa is a 1.2 fWAR in 478 at bats. Certainly all of these guys have helped their teams but the article is pointing them out because these are all pretty high paid players underperforming..
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Post by TheChico on Aug 22, 2023 14:21:30 GMT -5
But how many have had a positive impact on those teams being where they are? Other than Swanson , none until Turner recently became himself again. Oh how I knew this was coming... Yeah, Swanson's 104 OPS+ is lighting the Cubs on fire. Maybe it's his .175/.257 August? Just stop it already. They ALL have helped their teams win. EDIT: This is the apologist bullshit I talk about. Only Swanson has had a positive impact on his team pfffftttt he did not say Swanson only had a positive impact on his team, but it is clear he had the biggest positive impact on their team this year., Cubs are not a WC team without him. Swanson is going to win another Gold Glove and likely a platinum as well, that hold a SHITLOAD of value, nobody expected him to be the middle of the order superstar hitter like the other were expected.
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Post by batman66 on Aug 22, 2023 14:29:35 GMT -5
But how many have had a positive impact on those teams being where they are? Other than Swanson , none until Turner recently became himself again. Oh how I knew this was coming... Yeah, Swanson's 104 OPS+ is lighting the Cubs on fire. Maybe it's his .175/.257 August? Just stop it already. They ALL have helped their teams win. EDIT: This is the apologist bullshit I talk about. Only Swanson has had a positive impact on his team pfffftttt This is reality , not apologist bullshit , look at the defensive ratings and who is among the league leaders pretty sure it's Swanson and not the others , but hey you only look at run production and to do that for a shortstop is pretty weak minded. And look at what you always use when you're trying to push your agenda wRC+ But you chose not to use it now and went with OPS+ soooooooooooooooooo lets dive in and take a look shall we ............ Swanson 104 Turner 92 Correa 94 Vazquez 66 Abreu 74 So apologist bullshit huh ?
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Post by batman66 on Aug 22, 2023 14:35:06 GMT -5
Oh how I knew this was coming... Yeah, Swanson's 104 OPS+ is lighting the Cubs on fire. Maybe it's his .175/.257 August? Just stop it already. They ALL have helped their teams win. EDIT: This is the apologist bullshit I talk about. Only Swanson has had a positive impact on his team pfffftttt Steve, gauging a players value SOLELY with an offense metric like wRC+ is no more accurate than gauging a player solely by his defense which is NEVER done.. We should use a value indicator that reflects both offense & defense so in this case I'd say the closest thing to use is bWAR or fWAR which in the case of Swanson is a 3.9 fWAR in 420 at bats & Correa is a 1.2 fWAR in 478 at bats. Certainly all of these guys have helped their teams but the article is pointing them out because these are all pretty high paid players underperforming.. But Steve chose OPS+ this time , so I just posted those numbers and well ........... I think it's safe to say that what I said is not apologist bullshit. Somebody judging a shortstop alone by how much he's helped a team by just focusing on his offensive numbers should pretty much just end the debate right there , not even worth the time . Swanson has helped his team more on defense than any of those guys hands down and his bat has also been better. All of them it's safe to say have been having a shitty year and not being anything close to what's been expected until Turner recently finally becoming his old self.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 22, 2023 14:39:21 GMT -5
Oh how I knew this was coming... Yeah, Swanson's 104 OPS+ is lighting the Cubs on fire. Maybe it's his .175/.257 August? Just stop it already. They ALL have helped their teams win. EDIT: This is the apologist bullshit I talk about. Only Swanson has had a positive impact on his team pfffftttt he did not say Swanson only had a positive impact on his team, but it is clear he had the biggest positive impact on their team this year., Cubs are not a WC team without him. Swanson is going to win another Gold Glove and likely a platinum as well, that hold a SHITLOAD of value, nobody expected him to be the middle of the order superstar hitter like the other were expected. oh yes he did, read it again
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Post by fine09 on Aug 22, 2023 14:41:00 GMT -5
Steve, gauging a players value SOLELY with an offense metric like wRC+ is no more accurate than gauging a player solely by his defense which is NEVER done.. We should use a value indicator that reflects both offense & defense so in this case I'd say the closest thing to use is bWAR or fWAR which in the case of Swanson is a 3.9 fWAR in 420 at bats & Correa is a 1.2 fWAR in 478 at bats. Certainly all of these guys have helped their teams but the article is pointing them out because these are all pretty high paid players underperforming.. But Steve chose OPS+ this time , so I just posted those numbers and well ........... I think it's safe to say that what I said is not apologist bullshit. Somebody judging a shortstop alone by how much he's helped a team by just focusing on his offensive numbers should pretty much just end the debate right there , not even worth the time . Swanson has helped his team more on defense than any of those guys hands down and his bat has also been better. All of them it's safe to say have been having a shitty year and not being anything close to what's been expected until Turner recently finally becoming his old self. I saw that they had KB listed as one of the guys underperforming but I was pretty surprised that Schwarbs was there too. His bWAR is very low (-0.6) but his OPS+ is 106 so he's producing, just not very close to his expected rate. Then again he is back to hitting well under the Mendoza line - but with some mammoth HR's so still really fun to watch - just not against the Cubs that is..
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Post by batman66 on Aug 22, 2023 14:43:51 GMT -5
But how many have had a positive impact on those teams being where they are? Other than Swanson , none until Turner recently became himself again. Oh how I knew this was coming... Yeah, Swanson's 104 OPS+ is lighting the Cubs on fire. Maybe it's his .175/.257 August? Just stop it already. They ALL have helped their teams win. EDIT: This is the apologist bullshit I talk about. Only Swanson has had a positive impact on his team pfffftttt Bottom line since you'll probably cherry pick stats until you find one that works. Out of all of those guys who's been worth their salary this season and is a big reason why their team is where it is Swanson and Turner as of late . Abreu -1.0 WAR Correa 1.2 WAR Vazquez -0.1 WAR Turner 1.7 WAR Swanson 3.9 WAR Apologist bullshit though
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Post by holycow23 on Aug 22, 2023 14:46:37 GMT -5
Cubs really dodged some bullets. I really wanted Abreu on a 1 year deal. Didnt care what the AAV would have been. Wanted Vasquez at the time he signed because I thought he was the best option out there. Really wanted Turner until I saw his contract. Would not have been mad if they signed Rodon but thought they would get Senga. I wasnt upset or excited about the Hosmer,Mancini, Barnhardt signings but atleast the cubs tried to get guys who had done something at the MLB level instead of running AAAA players out there like they had been doing since the 2021 trade deadline. But the Bellinger and Swanson signings have really given the cubs a good offseason grade despite some swings and missings.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 22, 2023 14:50:01 GMT -5
So you're saying Swanson is having the better season? That's fine.... That's different than saying ONLY Swanson is having a positive impact to his team. What a flaw crap way to say only the Cubs made the right choice. This is irrelevant to the article, I'm talking solely about Batman saying only Swanson, "other than Turner the last month" has had a positive impact on his team. That's ok, I don't expect anything less from Batman, after all Wisdom is the same player as Chapman, ask him, but he's ok with a Wisdom DFA now ha
fWAR 3.9 2.6 1.9 1.2
These are all positive impacts for their teams, which other than Bogaerts, they are all currently in the postseason.
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Post by batman66 on Aug 22, 2023 14:51:05 GMT -5
he did not say Swanson only had a positive impact on his team, but it is clear he had the biggest positive impact on their team this year., Cubs are not a WC team without him. Swanson is going to win another Gold Glove and likely a platinum as well, that hold a SHITLOAD of value, nobody expected him to be the middle of the order superstar hitter like the other were expected. oh yes he did, read it again Explain to me how any of the others have other than Swanson and Turner as of late ? Swanson is a strong candidate for the platinum glove this season at the most important defensive position in baseball , but he lets just look at the bats , lol. Correa's hit like shit , barely above replacement level player with his bat , and his dWAR is 0.6 What really has he done to help his team be in first ? Vazquez and Abreu. , it's not even worth time to look up their numbers .
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