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Post by batman66 on Sept 12, 2023 18:22:36 GMT -5
I still think from a future & strategic POV, resigning Belli and getting Yamamoto on 5 year deals cements your foundation for the next window of WS contention. You will go over the tax if Stro opts in but then you reset after 2024. Like Chico said: Rickets already stated he has no problem going over, but he cautioned without exactly saying it that they'd play it in a strategic way where they would not do it for more than a couple seasons in a row where the heavier penalties kick in. |
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Post by batman66 on Sept 12, 2023 18:30:23 GMT -5
I've sort of kind of been thinking about Happ to 3B.
I know there will be a chorus of people here clamoring that you don't move a gold glove LF. But as defense goes... LF is really the least important position - in my humble opinion. Certainly better to have a gold glove than not a gold glove, but if you can get a real slugger in LF (I'm thinking more Canario or Mervis at 1B with Bellinger in the OF some where) then I'll trade offense for defense in LF. A gold glove middle infielder... or any infielder for that matter... and yea, I would argue that you keep him at that position. But a gold glove corner outfielder? If moving him off of that position improves the overall team, then I'm not going to let a gold glove stop me from doing that.
Happ is not foreign to 3B. I'm not real sure if the metrics really grade him that great there, but perhaps if he knows that's where he'll be playing he could work to improve his defense there.
Not suggesting that it will happen. But more food for thought.
When they tried him at 3b he was horrible. He also wasn't that great of an OF when they first put him out there either and he got a lot better. The Cubs apparently have somebody who's coaching pretty damn good , look how good Madrigal's looked there . Most people thought they were crazy when they first mentioned him and 3b . The only issues he's had from time to time is his height, some balls a normal sized 3b would field have gone over him. But I'm no longer mentioning Happ for 3b though like I did a lot this spring because I think they just drafted the Cubs future 3b and he's not going to take long to get to the majors. |
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Post by TheChico on Sept 12, 2023 19:42:56 GMT -5
There was never a question if Madrigal can actually field 3B as he had the range, the glove and quickness it was always about the arm only which is a big difference than Happ issue as he was never really a good infielder in the first place as he is to slow on the jump, lacks range and quickness kind of the exact opposite and I highly doubt reps will make a soon to be 30 year old a good defender. Just keep him in LF
Like Batman said, Cubs likely drafted their 3B in Shaw and hopefully he transition well to that spot and keeps on hitting.
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Post by holycow23 on Sept 12, 2023 20:36:56 GMT -5
When they tried him at 3b he was horrible. He also wasn't that great of an OF when they first put him out there either and he got a lot better. The Cubs apparently have somebody who's coaching pretty damn good , look how good Madrigal's looked there . Most people thought they were crazy when they first mentioned him and 3b . The only issues he's had from time to time is his height, some balls a normal sized 3b would field have gone over him. But I'm no longer mentioning Happ for 3b though like I did a lot this spring because I think they just drafted the Cubs future 3b and he's not going to take long to get to the majors. I believe it was Andy Green who worked with Nick at 3rd. I thought it was a joke when I first heard it but not only can Nick play 3rd he is actually kinda good. So I think Matt Shaw should move into Greens guest room this winter.  Offensively Shaw looks like Nico if Nico could hit 25 homers. |
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Post by batman66 on Sept 13, 2023 10:12:45 GMT -5
There was never a question if Madrigal can actually field 3B as he had the range, the glove and quickness it was always about the arm only which is a big difference than Happ issue as he was never really a good infielder in the first place as he is to slow on the jump, lacks range and quickness kind of the exact opposite and I highly doubt reps will make a soon to be 30 year old a good defender. Just keep him in LF Like Batman said, Cubs likely drafted their 3B in Shaw and hopefully he transition well to that spot and keeps on hitting. I know the arm was THE question , although I thought it was a silly one, the guy is a freaking major leaguer and even I can make a throw from third to first. Happ from what I remember also just didn't have the hands to be a 2b and 3b you need the quickness, not as much the range but all that past talk that I brought up about 3b was to find a way to fit in Belli when it looked like Mervis was going to be the 1b of the future and 3b was a major issue. But now my tune has changed on that for many reasons. I really don't think we need to worry about getting a 3b. Like I said I may be a bit too optimistic on Shaw being up sometime in 2024 but I think it's very possible. Shaw should be able to handle 3b if he can play short on a major league caliber level he should have the hands and arm for it and just needs to adapt to the footwork. Shaw is now 151 pa's into his career and he's still hitting .374 .424 obp .640 slh 1.064 OPS |
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Post by trav768 on Sept 15, 2023 13:32:58 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2023 15:13:22 GMT -5
No updates, just repeating what we know.
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Post by bryzzobrist on Sept 24, 2023 1:10:39 GMT -5
That k/bb ratio. Lawd have mercy. 31 next season. If we don't land yamamoto, this guy looks promising. Wish he was a couple years younger. |
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Post by batman66 on Sept 24, 2023 12:01:57 GMT -5
That k/bb ratio. Lawd have mercy. 31 next season. If we don't land yamamoto, this guy looks promising. Wish he was a couple years younger. Holy shit 177 K's 21 walks |
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Post by holycow23 on Sept 26, 2023 18:02:56 GMT -5
Sounds like the Stro Show will be back next season. With Horton lurking in the wings the cubs really dont have many rotation spots available.
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Post by kfidd on Sept 26, 2023 20:01:08 GMT -5
Sounds like the Stro Show will be back next season. With Horton lurking in the wings the cubs really dont have many rotation spots available. Personally I don’t think you let unproven players stop you from garnering young elite outside talent when it’s available. The locks for the rotation next season are almost certainly: 1. Steele 2. Stroman 3. Taillon I think it’d be a mistake to not pursue Yamamoto (only just turned 25 last month) when he can be had for only dollars just because we are excited about the collective Horton, Brown, Wicks, Assad, Wesneski group. Hendricks is still an option as well. If the front office is super confident in their young guns and don’t want to risk signing any free agent arms, I can live with that. But I’d fully expect the money to be spent on quality offensive improvements in that case and then worst case scenario we still have a deep farm that can help us land pitching in the future as needed. I don’t expect it but my dream remains Ohtani and Yamamoto. Give Morel all off-season to improve his play at third base and let Mervis have another go at it. I’d be extremely happy if that was our offseason outcome. But I’ll say it again for my own self as a reminder, I was all for Abreu and Correa last off-season and bashed the front office all winter for not committing enough, and look how that turned out. As long as the roster takes two steps forward I’m all for their plan. |
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Post by holycow23 on Sept 26, 2023 20:38:22 GMT -5
Sounds like the Stro Show will be back next season. With Horton lurking in the wings the cubs really dont have many rotation spots available. Personally I don’t think you let unproven players stop you from garnering young elite outside talent when it’s available. The locks for the rotation next season are almost certainly: 1. Steele 2. Stroman 3. Taillon I think it’d be a mistake to not pursue Yamamoto (only just turned 25 last month) when he can be had for only dollars just because we are excited about the collective Horton, Brown, Wicks, Assad, Wesneski group. Hendricks is still an option as well. If the front office is super confident in their young guns and don’t want to risk signing any free agent arms, I can live with that. But I’d fully expect the money to be spent on quality offensive improvements in that case and then worst case scenario we still have a deep farm that can help us land pitching in the future as needed. I don’t expect it but my dream remains Ohtani and Yamamoto. Give Morel all off-season to improve his play at third base and let Mervis have another go at it. I’d be extremely happy if that was our offseason outcome. But I’ll say it again for my own self as a reminder, I was all for Abreu and Correa last off-season and bashed the front office all winter for not committing enough, and look how that turned out. As long as the roster takes two steps forward I’m all for their plan. I still think the cubs will be back Hendricks. So in my mind that would be 4 spots. Wicks has looked solid but so did Wesneski last year at this time. Guess I believe in Wicks more than I do Hayden. So that would be 5 spots with Assad and Wesneski in the pen and Horton on the way. Watched Brown in person last week and saw him try to walk the stadium once and get lit up the other but I know he is trying to back from injury so?? But yeah getting Yamamoto would be awesome. All i have heard about this guy is he is a better version of Senga at the age of 25. |
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Post by thisbuds4u on Sept 27, 2023 21:58:41 GMT -5
I agree with re-signing Bellinger but Josh Hader should be the top priority. The bullpen should not be an after-thought when you consider of all the innings pitched by the Cubs staff, the bullpen has pitched 40% of those innings. We're seeing the effects of thin bullpen, Fulmer, Leiter and Alzolay have been worn down and the Cubs are left with a group of pitchers who lack experience and have control issues. Another hitter to go along with Bellinger would be great, preferably a 1st baseman. The trouble with this approach is that bullpens are always extremely volatile. Just because a bullpen arm has a great year this year, doesn't mean he'll have a great year next year. Generally speaking, this doesn't happen with offense and starting pitching. It was reasonable to expect Steele to have a similar or better year this year than he had last year. It's reasonable to expect Tallion to have a better year next year than this year. It's not reasonable to expect Leiter, Merryweather, and Alzolay to have similar or better years next year. They might - and wouldn't necessarily advocate outright dumping them after the season, but it's not reasonable to expect that. That's just what bullpens are. I'm not suggesting that a bullpen is not important. I just think it's foolish to throw a ton of money at a bullpen claiming that money will provide stability there. That's never been the case. A $10M bullpen arm is just as likely to flounder as a $700K bullpen arm, except you can cut the $700K bullpen arm, you can't the $10M arm - which means you are then stuck with an expensive roster spot that doesn't do anything. I think you are better off spending money on starting pitching and offense and buying several lottery tickets for the bullpen. Sometimes you DFA one of those lottery ticket bullpen arms and they go on to find success that season with some other team... that's just part of the price you pay. But I would rather have a bullpen that has a lot of moveable pieces (arms that can be DFA'd or optioned down) than high paid lackluster performances. It's up to the manager to figure out bullpen roles as quickly as possible during the season. Find the arms that are going to perform for that season and utilize them as your bridge to finishing out a game. Ross took too long to figure that out this season - or maybe the arms just took too long to start performing. Either way it wasn't until the bullpen was settled that the Cubs really got on track. If the Cubs want to go into next season expecting Leiter, Merryweather, Fulmer, and Alzolay to be their main late inning arms, I'm fine with that... but just don't be shocked if those arms don't perform next season, and Ross will have to be ready to kick them out of that role early on if they aren't performing. The Cubs have tried the lottery approach and it's not working. The Cubs need a closer and a couple of set-up men for the latter innings. Trying to figure out the bullpen in-season has cost the Cubs this season. To have the same approach next year would be stupid. Alzolay is good but he has a hard time staying healthy. |
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Post by cfin on Sept 27, 2023 22:37:59 GMT -5
The trouble with this approach is that bullpens are always extremely volatile. Just because a bullpen arm has a great year this year, doesn't mean he'll have a great year next year. Generally speaking, this doesn't happen with offense and starting pitching. It was reasonable to expect Steele to have a similar or better year this year than he had last year. It's reasonable to expect Tallion to have a better year next year than this year. It's not reasonable to expect Leiter, Merryweather, and Alzolay to have similar or better years next year. They might - and wouldn't necessarily advocate outright dumping them after the season, but it's not reasonable to expect that. That's just what bullpens are. I'm not suggesting that a bullpen is not important. I just think it's foolish to throw a ton of money at a bullpen claiming that money will provide stability there. That's never been the case. A $10M bullpen arm is just as likely to flounder as a $700K bullpen arm, except you can cut the $700K bullpen arm, you can't the $10M arm - which means you are then stuck with an expensive roster spot that doesn't do anything. I think you are better off spending money on starting pitching and offense and buying several lottery tickets for the bullpen. Sometimes you DFA one of those lottery ticket bullpen arms and they go on to find success that season with some other team... that's just part of the price you pay. But I would rather have a bullpen that has a lot of moveable pieces (arms that can be DFA'd or optioned down) than high paid lackluster performances. It's up to the manager to figure out bullpen roles as quickly as possible during the season. Find the arms that are going to perform for that season and utilize them as your bridge to finishing out a game. Ross took too long to figure that out this season - or maybe the arms just took too long to start performing. Either way it wasn't until the bullpen was settled that the Cubs really got on track. If the Cubs want to go into next season expecting Leiter, Merryweather, Fulmer, and Alzolay to be their main late inning arms, I'm fine with that... but just don't be shocked if those arms don't perform next season, and Ross will have to be ready to kick them out of that role early on if they aren't performing. The Cubs have tried the lottery approach and it's not working. The Cubs need a closer and a couple of set-up men for the latter innings. Trying to figure out the bullpen in-season has cost the Cubs this season. To have the same approach next year would be stupid. Alzolay is good but he has a hard time staying healthy. I actually think it's worked out pretty good.
When Leiter, Merryweather, Fulmer, and Alzolay were all firing on all cylinders the bullpen was working. When Stroman got injured and Smyly became ineffective in the rotation, this forced Assad into the rotation and he was turning into a reasonably dependable bullpen arm.
The problem was, it took Ross too long to figure these bullpen roles.
And I still say the burden is on the offense for not scoring enough runs in games so that those high leverage arms didn't have to work.
Sure, if you can guarantee that a $10M/year setup arm is going to be consistently good from start to finish, I'm all for that. But a $10M/year setup arm can fail just as much as a $1M/year setup arm. At least with the $1M/year setup arm, you can cut him if you have to, to bring in someone else - you've only lost $1M. A $1M/year setup arm can be just as effective as a $10M/year setup arm.
You could also argue that maybe someone like Ben Brown should have been brought up and tried in the bullpen when Palencia/Cuas continues to fail, But Palencia and Cuas could turn out to be good bullpen arms next year... you just never can tell.
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Post by irishcubfan on Sept 27, 2023 23:59:48 GMT -5
Bored and at work.
Totally in favor of a Yamamoto signing. A seemingly elite young talent. Imo a Stroman opt in may eliminate Hendricks. Next year starting 5 rotation of Steele, Stroman, Yamamoto, Taillon, and Wicks. Thinking Assad is a mirage and will take a step back. Minimal change in pen of Alzolay, Merryweather, Little, Cuas, Palencia (guessing be may be swing between MLB/minors). Break Brown into MLB as a reliever sometime during the year. Couple of free agent low cost fliers as usual. Smyly as swing or trade with Cubs paying off some salary. Leiter is out. Hoping Thompson reasserts himself but not counting on it.
LF, Happ CF Bader/Tauchman to start, RF Suzuki, 3b, Morel, SS Swanson, 2b Hoerner, 1b FA or Candy resign or Trade, C Gomes/Amaya Bench Mastrobouni or Madrigal, Wisdom still here. Mervis is out of org especially if pinhead is still the manager.
The following year sign Soto to whatever it takes. A generational face of the franchise talent. An average year for Soto is better than 99 percent of MLB players and better and safer investment than Bellinger. Horton hopefully healthy slides into the staff for a post push. Late 24 going out on a limb and saying Shaw replaces Hoerner and not Morel.
Another thing totally off subject like most all of this post, don't trade Cristian Hernandez. Once he figures it out the sky is the limit.
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Post by thisbuds4u on Sept 28, 2023 2:18:22 GMT -5
The Cubs have tried the lottery approach and it's not working. The Cubs need a closer and a couple of set-up men for the latter innings. Trying to figure out the bullpen in-season has cost the Cubs this season. To have the same approach next year would be stupid. Alzolay is good but he has a hard time staying healthy. I actually think it's worked out pretty good.
When Leiter, Merryweather, Fulmer, and Alzolay were all firing on all cylinders the bullpen was working. When Stroman got injured and Smyly became ineffective in the rotation, this forced Assad into the rotation and he was turning into a reasonably dependable bullpen arm.
The problem was, it took Ross too long to figure these bullpen roles.
And I still say the burden is on the offense for not scoring enough runs in games so that those high leverage arms didn't have to work.
Sure, if you can guarantee that a $10M/year setup arm is going to be consistently good from start to finish, I'm all for that. But a $10M/year setup arm can fail just as much as a $1M/year setup arm. At least with the $1M/year setup arm, you can cut him if you have to, to bring in someone else - you've only lost $1M. A $1M/year setup arm can be just as effective as a $10M/year setup arm.
You could also argue that maybe someone like Ben Brown should have been brought up and tried in the bullpen when Palencia/Cuas continues to fail, But Palencia and Cuas could turn out to be good bullpen arms next year... you just never can tell.
It's impossible to guarantee ANY players success or ability to stay healthy. Do you believe the Dodgers would have released Bellinger of they knew he would have such a bounce-back season? The Cubs have plenty of $1M set-up arms, what they don't have enough lock-down pitchers for late in games and it's biting them in the ass now. I suggest Hader because he will be a free agent so he won't cost the Cubs a bunch of prospects in a trade. If the Cubs can pony up $10 million next season to Mancini and Barnhart to not play for the Cubs, they can spend a few million more to make this team a contender. |
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Post by Cubtastic on Sept 28, 2023 6:45:20 GMT -5
This has been the perfect storm...bullpen injuries and badness combined, inconsistent offense, bad baserunning ie running into to many pits to often, bad errors at the worse times, and the cherry on the crap sundae3, a bad manager who does brilliant things like put PCA in as a Def replacement in the 4th inning of a game vs a 100 plus win team with a freaking all star lineup knowing your bullpen can't get anyone out..and then has to pinch hit for said Def replacement in the 8th because it's a one run game.
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Post by batman66 on Sept 28, 2023 13:52:01 GMT -5
Bored and at work. Totally in favor of a Yamamoto signing. A seemingly elite young talent. Imo a Stroman opt in may eliminate Hendricks. Next year starting 5 rotation of Steele, Stroman, Yamamoto, Taillon, and Wicks. Thinking Assad is a mirage and will take a step back. Minimal change in pen of Alzolay, Merryweather, Little, Cuas, Palencia (guessing be may be swing between MLB/minors). Break Brown into MLB as a reliever sometime during the year. Couple of free agent low cost fliers as usual. Smyly as swing or trade with Cubs paying off some salary. Leiter is out. Hoping Thompson reasserts himself but not counting on it. LF, Happ CF Bader/Tauchman to start, RF Suzuki, 3b, Morel, SS Swanson, 2b Hoerner, 1b FA or Candy resign or Trade, C Gomes/Amaya Bench Mastrobouni or Madrigal, Wisdom still here. Mervis is out of org especially if pinhead is still the manager. The following year sign Soto to whatever it takes. A generational face of the franchise talent. An average year for Soto is better than 99 percent of MLB players and better and safer investment than Bellinger. Horton hopefully healthy slides into the staff for a post push. Late 24 going out on a limb and saying Shaw replaces Hoerner and not Morel. Another thing totally off subject like most all of this post, don't trade Cristian Hernandez. Once he figures it out the sky is the limit. I was a big believer in Hernandez , but that clock is ticking , he's no longer the 16 year old , he will be 20 in a couple of months and struggling in low A ball and they have multiple infield prospects passing him by so I'm not sure what to do with him. I think evenetually he figures it out , but now he has Shaw, Triantos, Rojas, Valdez, ahead of him |
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Post by irishcubfan on Sept 28, 2023 16:04:54 GMT -5
Bored and at work. Totally in favor of a Yamamoto signing. A seemingly elite young talent. Imo a Stroman opt in may eliminate Hendricks. Next year starting 5 rotation of Steele, Stroman, Yamamoto, Taillon, and Wicks. Thinking Assad is a mirage and will take a step back. Minimal change in pen of Alzolay, Merryweather, Little, Cuas, Palencia (guessing be may be swing between MLB/minors). Break Brown into MLB as a reliever sometime during the year. Couple of free agent low cost fliers as usual. Smyly as swing or trade with Cubs paying off some salary. Leiter is out. Hoping Thompson reasserts himself but not counting on it. LF, Happ CF Bader/Tauchman to start, RF Suzuki, 3b, Morel, SS Swanson, 2b Hoerner, 1b FA or Candy resign or Trade, C Gomes/Amaya Bench Mastrobouni or Madrigal, Wisdom still here. Mervis is out of org especially if pinhead is still the manager. The following year sign Soto to whatever it takes. A generational face of the franchise talent. An average year for Soto is better than 99 percent of MLB players and better and safer investment than Bellinger. Horton hopefully healthy slides into the staff for a post push. Late 24 going out on a limb and saying Shaw replaces Hoerner and not Morel. Another thing totally off subject like most all of this post, don't trade Cristian Hernandez. Once he figures it out the sky is the limit. I was a big believer in Hernandez , but that clock is ticking , he's no longer the 16 year old , he will be 20 in a couple of months and struggling in low A ball and they have multiple infield prospects passing him by so I'm not sure what to do with him. I think evenetually he figures it out , but now he has Shaw, Triantos, Rojas, Valdez, ahead of him Cristian Hernandez is my Bellinger in the Cubs org. |
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Post by kfidd on Sept 29, 2023 11:22:17 GMT -5
I think Bleachernation gets this spot on: “But I guess I still just don’t want to see the Cubs sitting out a crowded free agent starting pitching market where they might be able to be choosey about who they bring in.” www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2023/09/29/marcus-stroman-the-opt-out-the-current-cubs-rotation-and-the-2024-cubs-rotation/Stroman is out of our control, and more likely to opt in than not. That’s a good thing, I think any of us would happily take a healthy Stroman for 1/21 and not have to worry about those mid-later 30s years for him. Of course that depends on whether all of Stroman’s second half really can be attributed to injury or not, but that’s a gamble worth taking (that we have no say in either way). But the bigger key here is the 2025 rotation. The only locks for it right now are Steele and Taillon, that’s it. Two locks. We of course hope guys like Horton, Wicks, and Brown will continue to take steps forward and be part of that discussion, not to mention Assad and Wesneski, too. But we aren’t talking about a long term deal for a 35+ ace caliber arm right here, we are talking about a guy who just turned 25 in Yamamoto and *may be the best pitcher in NPB history. He can also be had for purely money, granted a lot of money. It’s a risk, just as thinking Steele, Taillon, Horton, Wicks, and Brown could be a great value rotation for an expected competitive Cubs team in 2025. Depth is good. We’ve seen that this season. Want best case scenario? Sign Yamamoto, everyone stays healthy and continues their positive development, and shift some of those young arms into the bullpen as needed. We know our relief corp needs it… Lastly, the article also brings up the other point about a crowded rotation next year and the timeline for Ohtani. Is he cleared to hit next season but not pitch? What could be more perfect than that for us? Grab a massive RISP MACHINE for the middle of the lineup that we desperately need and don’t even have to worry about him pitching next season because he can’t anyways. But he could become an option for the rotation or pen again the following season. Guess who just bought themselves another season to fit all the pieces together depending on how certain young guys develop? *mic drop* |
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Offensively Shaw looks like Nico if Nico could hit 25 homers. 
