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Post by TheChico on Sept 12, 2023 11:35:07 GMT -5
Mike Trout slash line in 2023 was .263/.367/.490 at his age 31 season and only played 82 games, that line is fine but a red flag compared to Mike Trout standards. His Defense has slipped Declining (will be 32 next season) Struggles to stay on the field back issues $35.42 AAV for 7 more years It is crazy to say, but you have to pass if you are the Cubs and I think most teams will too unless the Angels eat a good chunk of the money which is around $75 million remaining on his deal and even that will not get the Angels much of a return in a trade. He seems like a unmovable contract I don't think he's unmovable , I think a team like the Mets would bite, I still don't think they've learned their lesson and would still just go after the huge name. Giants maybe and a few others It is unmovable to the point that I don't see any team willing to take on that whole contract, the Angels are going to have to eat a good chunk of money.
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Post by kfidd on Sept 12, 2023 11:40:43 GMT -5
Can never forget that both Happ and Suzuki have full no trade clauses. Not that it can’t happen, but it’s an extremely limiting factor. If it ever was a possibility I’d rather they move Happ 10x over Suzuki, but I would think we’d be better off accepting that both are here for the next three seasons and finding ways to improve the roster around them.
It seems too simple but the most obvious path to improving the roster still starts with Bellinger. Him at 1B and PCA in CF is your start. That leaves both DH and 3B as the remaining areas where maybe trades can help improve he offense, or if they like Morel enough for an everyday job and also want to see how Shaw develops a bit more it’s practical to think Morel and Madrigal are the respective starters to begin the season.
The rotation would get a huge jolt from another ace to pair with Steele. Stroman and Hendricks are the unknowns, are they here or not? Wicks, Brown, Wesneski, Assad, all vying for opportunities. Horton steamrolling through the system. None of that stops me from snagging another ace. It’s amazing how of the once extremely strong starting pitching group ahead, both Ohtani (injury) and Urias (dumbass) are now out of consideration. Yamamoto is the clear front runner and, just like Bellinger, will be heavily sought after by many teams. He’d be a wonderful get, not just for his ability on the field but also for the Cubs to continue sinking their teeth into the NPB and cementing themselves as a legit destination for any migrating talent.
OR
What’s the plan with all these minor leaguers? Depth is great but too much can be a wasted resource. Trade for a lockdown closer, ace, or stud third baseman?
Could and should be an exciting offseason ahead. I’d be thrilled with Yamamoto and one of Bellinger/Ohtani. But the trade possibilities could shake everything up drastically. Just no steps backwards. Improve the roster that is ahead of schedule and keep the Cubs relevant again.
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Post by batman66 on Sept 12, 2023 11:45:50 GMT -5
Can never forget that both Happ and Suzuki have full no trade clauses. Not that it can’t happen, but it’s an extremely limiting factor. If it ever was a possibility I’d rather they move Happ 10x over Suzuki, but I would think we’d be better off accepting that both are here for the next three seasons and finding ways to improve the roster around them. It seems too simple but the most obvious path to improving the roster still starts with Bellinger. Him at 1B and PCA in CF is your start. That leaves both DH and 3B as the remaining areas where maybe trades can help improve he offense, or if they like Morel enough for an everyday job and also want to see how Shaw develops a bit more it’s practical to think Morel and Madrigal are the respective starters to begin the season. The rotation would get a huge jolt from another ace to pair with Steele. Stroman and Hendricks are the unknowns, are they here or not? Wicks, Brown, Wesneski, Assad, all vying for opportunities. Horton steamrolling through the system. None of that stops me from snagging another ace. It’s amazing how of the once extremely strong starting pitching group ahead, both Ohtani (injury) and Urias (dumbass) are now out of consideration. Yamamoto is the clear front runner and, just like Bellinger, will be heavily sought after by many teams. He’d be a wonderful get, not just for his ability on the field but also for the Cubs to continue sinking their teeth into the NPB and cementing themselves as a legit destination for any migrating talent. OR What’s the plan with all these minor leaguers? Depth is great but too much can be a wasted resource. Trade for a lockdown closer, ace, or stud third baseman? Could and should be an exciting offseason ahead. I’d be thrilled with Yamamoto and one of Bellinger/Ohtani. But the trade possibilities could shake everything up drastically. Just no steps backwards. Improve the roster that is ahead of schedule and keep the Cubs relevant again.
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Post by TheChico on Sept 12, 2023 11:49:43 GMT -5
in those 82 games, he also had 18 HRs and 14 doubles. He posted a 130 OPS+ which would be 2nd behind only Belly. I'm not going to give him a pass on his injuries, but this year he's on the shelf due to a fracture in his hand by a hit by pitch, tough luck. They rushed him off the IL for a playoff push and Ohtani's injury ended that. That being said, I'm not pushing for Trout. I'm interested though. You're not declining if you have a 3.0 fWAR in 82 games. Like I said, he could be declining compared to Trout standards which were elite, I mean he as a career .994 OPS. While his numbers are still really good after 82 games and would be the 2nd best hitter on he Cubs right now behind Bellinger this year but he is getting paid $35 AAV for the next 7 years for a 32 year old who is heading out of his prime years but should still be a really good hitter, I just don't know if teams are willing to add that money to payroll at his age.
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Post by batman66 on Sept 12, 2023 11:54:42 GMT -5
Can never forget that both Happ and Suzuki have full no trade clauses. Not that it can’t happen, but it’s an extremely limiting factor. If it ever was a possibility I’d rather they move Happ 10x over Suzuki, but I would think we’d be better off accepting that both are here for the next three seasons and finding ways to improve the roster around them. It seems too simple but the most obvious path to improving the roster still starts with Bellinger. Him at 1B and PCA in CF is your start. That leaves both DH and 3B as the remaining areas where maybe trades can help improve he offense, or if they like Morel enough for an everyday job and also want to see how Shaw develops a bit more it’s practical to think Morel and Madrigal are the respective starters to begin the season. The rotation would get a huge jolt from another ace to pair with Steele. Stroman and Hendricks are the unknowns, are they here or not? Wicks, Brown, Wesneski, Assad, all vying for opportunities. Horton steamrolling through the system. None of that stops me from snagging another ace. It’s amazing how of the once extremely strong starting pitching group ahead, both Ohtani (injury) and Urias (dumbass) are now out of consideration. Yamamoto is the clear front runner and, just like Bellinger, will be heavily sought after by many teams. He’d be a wonderful get, not just for his ability on the field but also for the Cubs to continue sinking their teeth into the NPB and cementing themselves as a legit destination for any migrating talent. OR What’s the plan with all these minor leaguers? Depth is great but too much can be a wasted resource. Trade for a lockdown closer, ace, or stud third baseman? Could and should be an exciting offseason ahead. I’d be thrilled with Yamamoto and one of Bellinger/Ohtani. But the trade possibilities could shake everything up drastically. Just no steps backwards. Improve the roster that is ahead of schedule and keep the Cubs relevant again. I don't think they even need to address the 3b and DH spot because you have Shaw and Caissie that are going to be knocking on the door in 2024 and there is only one place to put Shaw and that's 3b and Caissie isn't going to be better defensively than what they have and you still have Morel around , that's a helluva potential lefty righty DH combo. No need to trade for a guy like Mayo anymore when you have Shaw. I might be rushing to judgement on him and he might slow down his progress a bit in 2024 , but it's not looking like he's going to be in the minors long and he's already cracking top 100's so he just might be that stud 3B. And no need to meddle with fillers until they are ready , Madrigal's done a good job and slotting a guy into the DH spot isn't hard. So I'd really try to target a closer in a trade if there is a team dealing one , the Cubs have to start moving some of these prospects that seem to have no future here because of the depth. If Belli is signed then Mervis would be a waste to just keep in AAA
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Post by batman66 on Sept 12, 2023 11:57:09 GMT -5
in those 82 games, he also had 18 HRs and 14 doubles. He posted a 130 OPS+ which would be 2nd behind only Belly. I'm not going to give him a pass on his injuries, but this year he's on the shelf due to a fracture in his hand by a hit by pitch, tough luck. They rushed him off the IL for a playoff push and Ohtani's injury ended that. That being said, I'm not pushing for Trout. I'm interested though. You're not declining if you have a 3.0 fWAR in 82 games. Like I said, he could be declining compared to Trout standards which were elite, I mean he as a career .994 OPS. While his numbers are still really good after 82 games and would be the 2nd best hitter on he Cubs right now behind Bellinger this year but he is getting paid $35 AAV for the next 7 years for a 32 year old who is heading out of his prime years but should still be a really good hitter, I just don't know if teams are willing to add that money to payroll at his age. I think the Giants would take on the entire contract. They've been desperate for a new face of the franchise, have the money and the need for a guy like him and can't seem to land guys in free agency .
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Post by TheChico on Sept 12, 2023 12:23:28 GMT -5
Like I said, he could be declining compared to Trout standards which were elite, I mean he as a career .994 OPS. While his numbers are still really good after 82 games and would be the 2nd best hitter on he Cubs right now behind Bellinger this year but he is getting paid $35 AAV for the next 7 years for a 32 year old who is heading out of his prime years but should still be a really good hitter, I just don't know if teams are willing to add that money to payroll at his age. I think the Giants would take on the entire contract. They've been desperate for a new face of the franchise, have the money and the need for a guy like him and can't seem to land guys in free agency . I just don't see it unless the Angels take a decent amount of that deal, you are pretty much paying him what he has done in the past for another team and I don't think he is a $35 AAV player going forward. The Giants will go big for somebody this offseason and if anybody they go overboard for it will likely be Ohtani or Bellinger.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Sept 12, 2023 12:37:37 GMT -5
I don't think he's unmovable , I think a team like the Mets would bite, I still don't think they've learned their lesson and would still just go after the huge name. Giants maybe and a few others It is unmovable to the point that I don't see any team willing to take on that whole contract, the Angels are going to have to eat a good chunk of money. 7/248 for a 32 year old Trout is easily movable. If Trea Turner can sign 11/300 at age 30 with ALL of his injuries, someone will come for Trout and his 7/248, that could be a 4-5 year bargain.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Sept 12, 2023 12:40:48 GMT -5
in those 82 games, he also had 18 HRs and 14 doubles. He posted a 130 OPS+ which would be 2nd behind only Belly. I'm not going to give him a pass on his injuries, but this year he's on the shelf due to a fracture in his hand by a hit by pitch, tough luck. They rushed him off the IL for a playoff push and Ohtani's injury ended that. That being said, I'm not pushing for Trout. I'm interested though. You're not declining if you have a 3.0 fWAR in 82 games. Like I said, he could be declining compared to Trout standards which were elite, I mean he as a career .994 OPS. While his numbers are still really good after 82 games and would be the 2nd best hitter on he Cubs right now behind Bellinger this year but he is getting paid $35 AAV for the next 7 years for a 32 year old who is heading out of his prime years but should still be a really good hitter, I just don't know if teams are willing to add that money to payroll at his age. Yeah, but the Trout decline from normal trout standards is what today? Mookie Betts? I mean, trout had a .999 OPS last year and a 1.090 in 2021. Again, I'm not fighting for Trout here, but I am surely interested.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Sept 12, 2023 12:41:29 GMT -5
Like I said, he could be declining compared to Trout standards which were elite, I mean he as a career .994 OPS. While his numbers are still really good after 82 games and would be the 2nd best hitter on he Cubs right now behind Bellinger this year but he is getting paid $35 AAV for the next 7 years for a 32 year old who is heading out of his prime years but should still be a really good hitter, I just don't know if teams are willing to add that money to payroll at his age. I think the Giants would take on the entire contract. They've been desperate for a new face of the franchise, have the money and the need for a guy like him and can't seem to land guys in free agency . That's a massive outfield for Trout, but a really good fit.
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Post by fine09 on Sept 12, 2023 13:34:25 GMT -5
Happ and a minor leaguer for Trout and cash? An outfield and some DH of Trout, PCA, Bellinger, and Suzuki would be awesome. As you say prolly just to risky, though. I personally wouldn't take him for zero player cost if they had to pay his remaining contract & I don't believe that any other team would either.. He was the best around for years but that was a while back now but he's still getting paid to be that guy.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2023 13:36:44 GMT -5
I still think from a future & strategic POV, resigning Belli and getting Yamamoto on 5 year deals cements your foundation for the next window of WS contention. You will go over the tax if Stro opts in but then you reset after 2024.
Like Chico said:
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Post by TheChico on Sept 12, 2023 14:18:09 GMT -5
Like I said, he could be declining compared to Trout standards which were elite, I mean he as a career .994 OPS. While his numbers are still really good after 82 games and would be the 2nd best hitter on he Cubs right now behind Bellinger this year but he is getting paid $35 AAV for the next 7 years for a 32 year old who is heading out of his prime years but should still be a really good hitter, I just don't know if teams are willing to add that money to payroll at his age. Yeah, but the Trout decline from normal trout standards is what today? Mookie Betts? I mean, trout had a .999 OPS last year and a 1.090 in 2021. Again, I'm not fighting for Trout here, but I am surely interested. You got to at least kick the tires, especially if a desprate team goes way overboard to sign Bellinger. hopefully it does not come to that, I am interested how the Trout trade market looks.
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Post by TheChico on Sept 12, 2023 14:23:34 GMT -5
I think the Giants would take on the entire contract. They've been desperate for a new face of the franchise, have the money and the need for a guy like him and can't seem to land guys in free agency . That's a massive outfield for Trout, but a really good fit. He would be a solid LF, but I think his CF days are done in that park.
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Post by cfin on Sept 12, 2023 15:38:40 GMT -5
Can never forget that both Happ and Suzuki have full no trade clauses. Not that it can’t happen, but it’s an extremely limiting factor. If it ever was a possibility I’d rather they move Happ 10x over Suzuki, but I would think we’d be better off accepting that both are here for the next three seasons and finding ways to improve the roster around them. It seems too simple but the most obvious path to improving the roster still starts with Bellinger. Him at 1B and PCA in CF is your start. That leaves both DH and 3B as the remaining areas where maybe trades can help improve he offense, or if they like Morel enough for an everyday job and also want to see how Shaw develops a bit more it’s practical to think Morel and Madrigal are the respective starters to begin the season. The rotation would get a huge jolt from another ace to pair with Steele. Stroman and Hendricks are the unknowns, are they here or not? Wicks, Brown, Wesneski, Assad, all vying for opportunities. Horton steamrolling through the system. None of that stops me from snagging another ace. It’s amazing how of the once extremely strong starting pitching group ahead, both Ohtani (injury) and Urias (dumbass) are now out of consideration. Yamamoto is the clear front runner and, just like Bellinger, will be heavily sought after by many teams. He’d be a wonderful get, not just for his ability on the field but also for the Cubs to continue sinking their teeth into the NPB and cementing themselves as a legit destination for any migrating talent. OR What’s the plan with all these minor leaguers? Depth is great but too much can be a wasted resource. Trade for a lockdown closer, ace, or stud third baseman? Could and should be an exciting offseason ahead. I’d be thrilled with Yamamoto and one of Bellinger/Ohtani. But the trade possibilities could shake everything up drastically. Just no steps backwards. Improve the roster that is ahead of schedule and keep the Cubs relevant again. I've sort of kind of been thinking about Happ to 3B.
I know there will be a chorus of people here clamoring that you don't move a gold glove LF. But as defense goes... LF is really the least important position - in my humble opinion. Certainly better to have a gold glove than not a gold glove, but if you can get a real slugger in LF (I'm thinking more Canario or Mervis at 1B with Bellinger in the OF some where) then I'll trade offense for defense in LF. A gold glove middle infielder... or any infielder for that matter... and yea, I would argue that you keep him at that position. But a gold glove corner outfielder? If moving him off of that position improves the overall team, then I'm not going to let a gold glove stop me from doing that.
Happ is not foreign to 3B. I'm not real sure if the metrics really grade him that great there, but perhaps if he knows that's where he'll be playing he could work to improve his defense there.
Not suggesting that it will happen. But more food for thought.
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Post by skokiejoe on Sept 12, 2023 15:40:19 GMT -5
Can never forget that both Happ and Suzuki have full no trade clauses. Not that it can’t happen, but it’s an extremely limiting factor. If it ever was a possibility I’d rather they move Happ 10x over Suzuki, but I would think we’d be better off accepting that both are here for the next three seasons and finding ways to improve the roster around them. It seems too simple but the most obvious path to improving the roster still starts with Bellinger. Him at 1B and PCA in CF is your start. That leaves both DH and 3B as the remaining areas where maybe trades can help improve he offense, or if they like Morel enough for an everyday job and also want to see how Shaw develops a bit more it’s practical to think Morel and Madrigal are the respective starters to begin the season. The rotation would get a huge jolt from another ace to pair with Steele. Stroman and Hendricks are the unknowns, are they here or not? Wicks, Brown, Wesneski, Assad, all vying for opportunities. Horton steamrolling through the system. None of that stops me from snagging another ace. It’s amazing how of the once extremely strong starting pitching group ahead, both Ohtani (injury) and Urias (dumbass) are now out of consideration. Yamamoto is the clear front runner and, just like Bellinger, will be heavily sought after by many teams. He’d be a wonderful get, not just for his ability on the field but also for the Cubs to continue sinking their teeth into the NPB and cementing themselves as a legit destination for any migrating talent. OR What’s the plan with all these minor leaguers? Depth is great but too much can be a wasted resource. Trade for a lockdown closer, ace, or stud third baseman? Could and should be an exciting offseason ahead. I’d be thrilled with Yamamoto and one of Bellinger/Ohtani. But the trade possibilities could shake everything up drastically. Just no steps backwards. Improve the roster that is ahead of schedule and keep the Cubs relevant again. I've sort of kind of been thinking about Happ to 3B.
I know there will be a chorus of people here clamoring that you don't move a gold glove LF. But as defense goes... LF is really the least important position - in my humble opinion. Certainly better to have a gold glove than not a gold glove, but if you can get a real slugger in LF (I'm thinking more Canario or Mervis at 1B with Bellinger in the OF some where) then I'll trade offense for defense in LF. A gold glove middle infielder... or any infielder for that matter... and yea, I would argue that you keep him at that position. But a gold glove corner outfielder? If moving him off of that position improves the overall team, then I'm not going to let a gold glove stop me from doing that.
Happ is not foreign to 3B. I'm not real sure if the metrics really grade him that great there, but perhaps if he knows that's where he'll be playing he could work to improve his defense there.
Not suggesting that it will happen. But more food for thought.
When they tried him at 3b he was horrible.
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Post by cfin on Sept 12, 2023 16:53:45 GMT -5
I've sort of kind of been thinking about Happ to 3B.
I know there will be a chorus of people here clamoring that you don't move a gold glove LF. But as defense goes... LF is really the least important position - in my humble opinion. Certainly better to have a gold glove than not a gold glove, but if you can get a real slugger in LF (I'm thinking more Canario or Mervis at 1B with Bellinger in the OF some where) then I'll trade offense for defense in LF. A gold glove middle infielder... or any infielder for that matter... and yea, I would argue that you keep him at that position. But a gold glove corner outfielder? If moving him off of that position improves the overall team, then I'm not going to let a gold glove stop me from doing that.
Happ is not foreign to 3B. I'm not real sure if the metrics really grade him that great there, but perhaps if he knows that's where he'll be playing he could work to improve his defense there.
Not suggesting that it will happen. But more food for thought.
When they tried him at 3b he was horrible. Meh. They gave him 185 innings there. While not a lot, it's a lot more than 3 or 4 games there where they could emphatically say "he's horrible there".
That was also when he was being run out to CF and all of the outfield positions and 2B.
Again - I'm not fully advocating that it be done. BUT... if everyone is concerned about what to do with the glut of outfielders in a situation where you can't trade Happ or Suzuki and either Canario or Mervis look to provide much needed thump to the lineup, moving Happ to 3B is A solution. Not suggesting it's a great one.
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Post by okeecub on Sept 12, 2023 16:56:39 GMT -5
I've sort of kind of been thinking about Happ to 3B.
I know there will be a chorus of people here clamoring that you don't move a gold glove LF. But as defense goes... LF is really the least important position - in my humble opinion. Certainly better to have a gold glove than not a gold glove, but if you can get a real slugger in LF (I'm thinking more Canario or Mervis at 1B with Bellinger in the OF some where) then I'll trade offense for defense in LF. A gold glove middle infielder... or any infielder for that matter... and yea, I would argue that you keep him at that position. But a gold glove corner outfielder? If moving him off of that position improves the overall team, then I'm not going to let a gold glove stop me from doing that.
Happ is not foreign to 3B. I'm not real sure if the metrics really grade him that great there, but perhaps if he knows that's where he'll be playing he could work to improve his defense there.
Not suggesting that it will happen. But more food for thought.
When they tried him at 3b he was horrible. stupid question, with a no trade clause could a team offer a $$ bonus to players to waive their clause if they are reluctant to do so
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Post by batman66 on Sept 12, 2023 18:18:15 GMT -5
I think the Giants would take on the entire contract. They've been desperate for a new face of the franchise, have the money and the need for a guy like him and can't seem to land guys in free agency . I just don't see it unless the Angels take a decent amount of that deal, you are pretty much paying him what he has done in the past for another team and I don't think he is a $35 AAV player going forward. The Giants will go big for somebody this offseason and if anybody they go overboard for it will likely be Ohtani or Bellinger. No doubt they will attempt to go big , but they can't seem to reel in the big fish , they've certainly made efforts , just can't land guys because I don't think a lot of them would love to play in that park 81 games a year. That's why I say trade, although I'm not sure Trout would accept a trade there.
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Post by batman66 on Sept 12, 2023 18:20:04 GMT -5
I think the Giants would take on the entire contract. They've been desperate for a new face of the franchise, have the money and the need for a guy like him and can't seem to land guys in free agency . That's a massive outfield for Trout, but a really good fit. True , probably would be better as a LF there.
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