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Post by batman66 on Sept 11, 2023 14:14:01 GMT -5
Give me Belli & Yamamoto & figure everything else out after those 2 signings, but only if Ricketts agrees to go above the CBT. I agree with re-signing Bellinger but Josh Hader should be the top priority. The bullpen should not be an after-thought when you consider of all the innings pitched by the Cubs staff, the bullpen has pitched 40% of those innings. We're seeing the effects of thin bullpen, Fulmer, Leiter and Alzolay have been worn down and the Cubs are left with a group of pitchers who lack experience and have control issues. Another hitter to go along with Bellinger would be great, preferably a 1st baseman. I got a couple of WHAT'S ?? to this post. One , Bellinger should be top prioroty , not Hader. I know Theo is not here anymore so me going by this assumption might be wrong and I don't know who was the one with the preference Theo or Jed or maybe both , but they are not known to be ones who will spend for a closer on a long term deal other than when Kimbrel fell into their laps so I don't think they will even kick the tires on Hader. I could be wrong though , if it was all a Theo thing. Two , if they do sign Bellinger it's more than likely it would be to mainly play 1B , with PCA arriving and Seiya looking like he may have figured things out and so many other OF prospects getting close they are likely looking at Belli to be the 1b moving forward although him in right , PCA in center and Happ in left would be one helluva defensive OF , Belli is likely going to be the 1B , so no need to go after a 1B.
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Post by bryzzobrist on Sept 11, 2023 14:28:47 GMT -5
FWIW, Alzolay's era of 2.7 is about what the projection is for Hader next season. Hader is only 29, but a career era of 2.5. Is that where we need to put 5 years 73 million (spotrac)?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2023 14:35:16 GMT -5
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Post by tedw on Sept 11, 2023 14:37:15 GMT -5
I agree with re-signing Bellinger but Josh Hader should be the top priority. The bullpen should not be an after-thought when you consider of all the innings pitched by the Cubs staff, the bullpen has pitched 40% of those innings. We're seeing the effects of thin bullpen, Fulmer, Leiter and Alzolay have been worn down and the Cubs are left with a group of pitchers who lack experience and have control issues. Another hitter to go along with Bellinger would be great, preferably a 1st baseman. I got a couple of WHAT'S ?? to this post. One , Bellinger should be top prioroty , not Hader. I know Theo is not here anymore so me going by this assumption might be wrong and I don't know who was the one with the preference Theo or Jed or maybe both , but they are not known to be ones who will spend for a closer on a long term deal other than when Kimbrel fell into their laps so I don't think they will even kick the tires on Hader. I could be wrong though , if it was all a Theo thing. Two , if they do sign Bellinger it's more than likely it would be to mainly play 1B , with PCA arriving and Seiya looking like he may have figured things out and so many other OF prospects getting close they are likely looking at Belli to be the 1b moving forward although him in right , PCA in center and Happ in left would be one helluva defensive OF , Belli is likely going to be the 1B , so no need to go after a 1B. So what's the future for Mervis if we sign Bellinger and keep him at 1st? I am not disagreeing with you, I also love Bellinger. But Mervis is already 25, if we sign Belli, which he is going to want at least 7 years, have we basically given up on Mervis, then? He didn't have that good of a showing earlier this year, but was that his only chance? What about Bellinger playing LF? With Seiya seemingly cemented in right and PCA coming up in CF. Would Bellinger be open to LF?
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Post by TheChico on Sept 11, 2023 14:54:02 GMT -5
I got a couple of WHAT'S ?? to this post. One , Bellinger should be top prioroty , not Hader. I know Theo is not here anymore so me going by this assumption might be wrong and I don't know who was the one with the preference Theo or Jed or maybe both , but they are not known to be ones who will spend for a closer on a long term deal other than when Kimbrel fell into their laps so I don't think they will even kick the tires on Hader. I could be wrong though , if it was all a Theo thing. Two , if they do sign Bellinger it's more than likely it would be to mainly play 1B , with PCA arriving and Seiya looking like he may have figured things out and so many other OF prospects getting close they are likely looking at Belli to be the 1b moving forward although him in right , PCA in center and Happ in left would be one helluva defensive OF , Belli is likely going to be the 1B , so no need to go after a 1B. So what's the future for Mervis if we sign Bellinger and keep him at 1st? I am not disagreeing with you, I also love Bellinger. But Mervis is already 25, if we sign Belli, which he is going to want at least 7 years, have we basically given up on Mervis, then? He didn't have that good of a showing earlier this year, but was that his only chance? What about Bellinger playing LF? With Seiya seemingly cemented in right and PCA coming up in CF. Would Bellinger be open to LF? IF they re-sign Bellinger is likely means Mervis is going to be traded is my guess.
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Post by chubbs63 on Sept 11, 2023 15:34:36 GMT -5
Mervis at DH
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Post by lajoiesghost on Sept 11, 2023 16:07:57 GMT -5
Didn't you see the other post? That's where Trout will be when we trade for him. Oh, wait, then where will Ohtani be on days he doesn't pitch? It's all so confusing...
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Post by batman66 on Sept 11, 2023 18:29:35 GMT -5
Never thought I'd say it , but no thanks. It's not just the money , like you say , the guy just misses way too many games and I don't see it getting any better as he ages.
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Post by batman66 on Sept 11, 2023 18:37:31 GMT -5
I got a couple of WHAT'S ?? to this post. One , Bellinger should be top prioroty , not Hader. I know Theo is not here anymore so me going by this assumption might be wrong and I don't know who was the one with the preference Theo or Jed or maybe both , but they are not known to be ones who will spend for a closer on a long term deal other than when Kimbrel fell into their laps so I don't think they will even kick the tires on Hader. I could be wrong though , if it was all a Theo thing. Two , if they do sign Bellinger it's more than likely it would be to mainly play 1B , with PCA arriving and Seiya looking like he may have figured things out and so many other OF prospects getting close they are likely looking at Belli to be the 1b moving forward although him in right , PCA in center and Happ in left would be one helluva defensive OF , Belli is likely going to be the 1B , so no need to go after a 1B. So what's the future for Mervis if we sign Bellinger and keep him at 1st? I am not disagreeing with you, I also love Bellinger. But Mervis is already 25, if we sign Belli, which he is going to want at least 7 years, have we basically given up on Mervis, then? He didn't have that good of a showing earlier this year, but was that his only chance? What about Bellinger playing LF? With Seiya seemingly cemented in right and PCA coming up in CF. Would Bellinger be open to LF? I really don't think the Cubs are sold on Mervis being the future for them at 1b to the point they'd pass on trying to fit in Bellinger. But Bellinger can play any of the OF spots and 1B , so even if he's signed with 1B as the vision he could always play the OF and if anything I'd think Seiya would move to left and Belli would play RF , where he's a GG RF if Mervis is pushing the door down . Then you have Happ to find a spot for and then Owen Caissie no doubt starts the season in AAA in 2024 and could be ready at some point ..........all good problems to have that usually work itself out somehow I would not be surprised to see Mervis traded this winter.
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Post by holycow23 on Sept 11, 2023 19:26:43 GMT -5
There were rumors that the cubs were interested in trading for Bednar from the pirates at the deadline. I would like to see that revisited this winter. I know it is a divisional trade but we have the trade chips. The cubs are getting to the same situation where they were a few years back when they were strong in prospect capital and guys like Mervis or Canario could easily be traded for a need.
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Post by thisbuds4u on Sept 12, 2023 3:54:56 GMT -5
I agree with re-signing Bellinger but Josh Hader should be the top priority. The bullpen should not be an after-thought when you consider of all the innings pitched by the Cubs staff, the bullpen has pitched 40% of those innings. We're seeing the effects of thin bullpen, Fulmer, Leiter and Alzolay have been worn down and the Cubs are left with a group of pitchers who lack experience and have control issues. Another hitter to go along with Bellinger would be great, preferably a 1st baseman. I got a couple of WHAT'S ?? to this post. One , Bellinger should be top prioroty , not Hader. I know Theo is not here anymore so me going by this assumption might be wrong and I don't know who was the one with the preference Theo or Jed or maybe both , but they are not known to be ones who will spend for a closer on a long term deal other than when Kimbrel fell into their laps so I don't think they will even kick the tires on Hader. I could be wrong though , if it was all a Theo thing. Two , if they do sign Bellinger it's more than likely it would be to mainly play 1B , with PCA arriving and Seiya looking like he may have figured things out and so many other OF prospects getting close they are likely looking at Belli to be the 1b moving forward although him in right , PCA in center and Happ in left would be one helluva defensive OF , Belli is likely going to be the 1B , so no need to go after a 1B. I agreed that Bellinger should be re-signed but Hader should be a priority over Yamamoto. Of all the unrestricted free agents, who are closers, Hader is the youngest. He will likely be one of the highest paid relievers in baseball but WHO CARES! If he increases the win total for the Cubs, that's all that matters. I would hope Jed has seen enough of games being lost because of a weak bullpen. The luxury tax should not be an issue because there will be an end to bad contracts in 2024 and 2025.
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Post by batman66 on Sept 12, 2023 8:37:08 GMT -5
I got a couple of WHAT'S ?? to this post. One , Bellinger should be top prioroty , not Hader. I know Theo is not here anymore so me going by this assumption might be wrong and I don't know who was the one with the preference Theo or Jed or maybe both , but they are not known to be ones who will spend for a closer on a long term deal other than when Kimbrel fell into their laps so I don't think they will even kick the tires on Hader. I could be wrong though , if it was all a Theo thing. Two , if they do sign Bellinger it's more than likely it would be to mainly play 1B , with PCA arriving and Seiya looking like he may have figured things out and so many other OF prospects getting close they are likely looking at Belli to be the 1b moving forward although him in right , PCA in center and Happ in left would be one helluva defensive OF , Belli is likely going to be the 1B , so no need to go after a 1B. I agreed that Bellinger should be re-signed but Hader should be a priority over Yamamoto. Of all the unrestricted free agents, who are closers, Hader is the youngest. He will likely be one of the highest paid relievers in baseball but WHO CARES! If he increases the win total for the Cubs, that's all that matters. I would hope Jed has seen enough of games being lost because of a weak bullpen. The luxury tax should not be an issue because there will be an end to bad contracts in 2024 and 2025. I would love them to sign Hader but I'm being realistic in my hopes because I think they still have the mentality that they aren't going to give a long term deal and big money to a closer. As far as who should be a priority Yamamoto or Hader , for the Cubs "needs" you're probably right because there is no lack of quality SP's in the system and having a lock down proven closer over hoping an in house one will develop is surely a better situation for a contenders bullpen. But Yamamoto added to Steele, and Horton would be one helluva top 3 going forward.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2023 9:12:50 GMT -5
I agreed that Bellinger should be re-signed but Hader should be a priority over Yamamoto. Of all the unrestricted free agents, who are closers, Hader is the youngest. He will likely be one of the highest paid relievers in baseball but WHO CARES! If he increases the win total for the Cubs, that's all that matters. I would hope Jed has seen enough of games being lost because of a weak bullpen. The luxury tax should not be an issue because there will be an end to bad contracts in 2024 and 2025. I would love them to sign Hader but I'm being realistic in my hopes because I think they still have the mentality that they aren't going to give a long term deal and big money to a closer. As far as who should be a priority Yamamoto or Hader , for the Cubs "needs" you're probably right because there is no lack of quality SP's in the system and having a lock down proven closer over hoping an in house one will develop is surely a better situation for a contenders bullpen. But Yamamoto added to Steele, and Horton would be one helluva top 3 going forward. 1. Steele 2. Yamamoto 3. Horton 4. Wicks Drooooooool
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Post by TheChico on Sept 12, 2023 10:31:10 GMT -5
Jed Hoyer is personally going to Japan to see Yamamoto next start.
Yankees are the favorites only because their scouts were in attendance in his last start (forget the other 28 teams scouts that were there also), and it is still assumed after all these years if the Yankees are interested they will get their guy even though that has not been true for a while now.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Sept 12, 2023 10:35:22 GMT -5
Since Trout was mentioned, here's what's left on his deal.... 7/248 (thru age 38). You'd be trading for him at his season age 32. I mean, if he can stay on the field, that's a good deal for Trout. You're moving him off CF, but I wouldn't say DH just yet, he's still a stud defender, but I think you cut his field down to a corner spot.
As for Cubs, if you're interested, you'd need to move Suzuki if PCA is your future CF. Plus, if you're on the hook for all of that 7/248, you're not sending any of your high end prospects, upside guys, but no high end guys. Can you get 4 MVP years out of this 7? That's the question. If so, he's probably worth it.
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Post by TheChico on Sept 12, 2023 10:54:43 GMT -5
Since Trout was mentioned, here's what's left on his deal.... 7/248 (thru age 38). You'd be trading for him at his season age 32. I mean, if he can stay on the field, that's a good deal for Trout. You're moving him off CF, but I wouldn't say DH just yet, he's still a stud defender, but I think you cut his field down to a corner spot. As for Cubs, if you're interested, you'd need to move Suzuki if PCA is your future CF. Plus, if you're on the hook for all of that 7/248, you're not sending any of your high end prospects, upside guys, but no high end guys. Can you get 4 MVP years out of this 7? That's the question. If so, he's probably worth it. Mike Trout slash line in 2023 was .263/.367/.490 at his age 31 season and only played 82 games, that line is fine but a red flag compared to Mike Trout standards. His Defense has slipped Declining (will be 32 next season) Struggles to stay on the field back issues $35.42 AAV for 7 more years It is crazy to say, but you have to pass if you are the Cubs and I think most teams will too unless the Angels eat a good chunk of the money which is around $75 million remaining on his deal and even that will not get the Angels much of a return in a trade. He seems like a unmovable contract
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Post by batman66 on Sept 12, 2023 11:08:14 GMT -5
Since Trout was mentioned, here's what's left on his deal.... 7/248 (thru age 38). You'd be trading for him at his season age 32. I mean, if he can stay on the field, that's a good deal for Trout. You're moving him off CF, but I wouldn't say DH just yet, he's still a stud defender, but I think you cut his field down to a corner spot. As for Cubs, if you're interested, you'd need to move Suzuki if PCA is your future CF. Plus, if you're on the hook for all of that 7/248, you're not sending any of your high end prospects, upside guys, but no high end guys. Can you get 4 MVP years out of this 7? That's the question. If so, he's probably worth it. Mike Trout slash line in 2023 was .263/.367/.490 at his age 31 season and only played 82 games, that line is fine but a red flag compared to Mike Trout standards. His Defense has slipped Declining (will be 32 next season) Struggles to stay on the field back issues $35.42 AAV for 7 more years It is crazy to say, but you have to pass if you are the Cubs and I think most teams will too unless the Angels eat a good chunk of the money which is around $75 million remaining on his deal and even that will not get the Angels much of a return in a trade. He seems like a unmovable contract I don't think he's unmovable , I think a team like the Mets would bite, I still don't think they've learned their lesson and would still just go after the huge name. Giants maybe and a few others
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Sept 12, 2023 11:11:12 GMT -5
in those 82 games, he also had 18 HRs and 14 doubles. He posted a 130 OPS+ which would be 2nd behind only Belly. I'm not going to give him a pass on his injuries, but this year he's on the shelf due to a fracture in his hand by a hit by pitch, tough luck. They rushed him off the IL for a playoff push and Ohtani's injury ended that.
That being said, I'm not pushing for Trout. I'm interested though. You're not declining if you have a 3.0 fWAR in 82 games.
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Post by batman66 on Sept 12, 2023 11:26:58 GMT -5
in those 82 games, he also had 18 HRs and 14 doubles. He posted a 130 OPS+ which would be 2nd behind only Belly. I'm not going to give him a pass on his injuries, but this year he's on the shelf due to a fracture in his hand by a hit by pitch, tough luck. They rushed him off the IL for a playoff push and Ohtani's injury ended that. That being said, I'm not pushing for Trout. I'm interested though. You're not declining if you have a 3.0 fWAR in 82 games. NOBODY is doubting the numbers the guy is capable of still putting up. But it's the 82 games thing , it's the 119 last year , it's the 36 the year before . He's played over 135 games only once (140) since 2017 and when a guy is supposed to be THE man in your line up , you need him playing 150 a season. You take him out of the line up for 30-40-50 games a season due to injury you better have somebody else capable of somewhat replacing that fWAR you're going to be missing. I don't want to hear the "tough luck" stuff anymore or "freak injury" when it keeps happening to a guy it's a bit different. More like "jinxed" or the guy just had bad luck. I mean it's not like a Milton Bradley thing where it's one little thing after another all the time , but you can't ignore that he just can't seem to avoid lengthy IL stays and he's now 32 and no longer really has a running game which was part of what made him so great to go with the bat.
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Post by lu13cubbie on Sept 12, 2023 11:28:28 GMT -5
Happ and a minor leaguer for Trout and cash? An outfield and some DH of Trout, PCA, Bellinger, and Suzuki would be awesome. As you say prolly just to risky, though.
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