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Post by batman66 on Aug 22, 2023 8:43:23 GMT -5
Can’t forget about Taillon. The locks for the rotation next season are likely: Stroman (21m player option) Steele Taillon Hendricks (16m club option) Some have suggested Hendricks being restructured into a 2 year deal with a lower AAV, but whatever they do it’s hard to imagine not bringing him back at this point. Stroman’s second half issues really complicate the rotation for me. Y’all know I’m a big Ohtani guy, sign him for whatever it takes, but it’s very possible we have 37m rotation dollars tied up in huge question marks for next season: Stroman and Taillon. We have young arms in Assad, Wesneski, Brown, Wicks, etc. Who knows what the front office is planning for next year’s rotation right now. Free agency options are plentiful but we’ve got a good bit of glut right now, too. So idunno Another under the radar signing no one has talked about and is having another excellent season at a decent price? Why none other than Clayton Kershaw himself. He has made his money and might actually take a flyer somewhere else. I'd love to snag him on a bridge 1 year deal at maybe 18-20M but I think he will want 3 years minimum. He could be an attractive option and we could have 2 Aces with Steele, but I doubt it happens. He's not going to leave the Dodgers and IF by the slim chance he does it's probably to pitch in Texas. Cubs have a better chance of signing Ohtani than they do Kershaw.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2023 8:52:47 GMT -5
Another under the radar signing no one has talked about and is having another excellent season at a decent price? Why none other than Clayton Kershaw himself. He has made his money and might actually take a flyer somewhere else. I'd love to snag him on a bridge 1 year deal at maybe 18-20M but I think he will want 3 years minimum. He could be an attractive option and we could have 2 Aces with Steele, but I doubt it happens. He's not going to leave the Dodgers and IF by the slim chance he does it's probably to pitch in Texas. Cubs have a better chance of signing Ohtani than they do Kershaw. Fair enough, but all things considered we should be an attractive FA destination next year.
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Post by rvn11 on Aug 22, 2023 9:06:35 GMT -5
Lets say that stro opts in. We add hendricks back on a 1 year deal. And, yeah i know, but we add Ohtani. Steele Ohtani Stroman Assad/wicks/killian Hendricks IMO if they're serious about contending next season and making a run going forward, it's time to move on from Hendricks. Love the guy, but this team needs another stud starter to run alongside Steele and hopefully Stroman. Need to find a better starter this offseason that can help anchor the rotation in 2 years if/when Stroman's option year is over. My hope is that Stroman picks up the option for next year. If not they have some work ahead of them to fill 2 starter holes. I wouldn't be against using some of the minor league depth to trade for a younger arm that's under control for a while still. Just not a ton of options like that out there, or with teams that would be willing to deal.
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Post by kfidd on Aug 22, 2023 9:16:22 GMT -5
Lets say that stro opts in. We add hendricks back on a 1 year deal. And, yeah i know, but we add Ohtani. Steele Ohtani Stroman Assad/wicks/killian Hendricks IMO if they're serious about contending next season and making a run going forward, it's time to move on from Hendricks. Love the guy, but this team needs another stud starter to run alongside Steele and hopefully Stroman. Need to find a better starter this offseason that can help anchor the rotation in 2 years if/when Stroman's option year is over. My hope is that Stroman picks up the option for next year. If not they have some work ahead of them to fill 2 starter holes. I wouldn't be against using some of the minor league depth to trade for a younger arm that's under control for a while still. Just not a ton of options like that out there, or with teams that would be willing to deal. I mentioned a few weeks back that if Stroman’s slide continued and he opted in for 2024, picking up the option on Hendricks was going to become complicated. The problem with the rotation outlined above is it doesn’t include Taillon, who as much as we might like to pretend didn’t ink a 4 year deal last winter, well… I don’t see how you can bring back Hendricks for 16m, and even if you restructure his deal to a lower average dollar it pretty much cements that you aren’t adding to the rotation this free agency, which would be a shame considering it’s depth. So my guess is whether Stroman opts in or not determines whether Hendricks gets a spot with the Cubs next season, and all signs point to Stroman’s opting in. And if you want to keep Hendricks at that point you are foregoing adding an ace starter this winter, which doesn’t bode well for next season nor beyond.
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Post by rvn11 on Aug 22, 2023 9:37:54 GMT -5
IMO if they're serious about contending next season and making a run going forward, it's time to move on from Hendricks. Love the guy, but this team needs another stud starter to run alongside Steele and hopefully Stroman. Need to find a better starter this offseason that can help anchor the rotation in 2 years if/when Stroman's option year is over. My hope is that Stroman picks up the option for next year. If not they have some work ahead of them to fill 2 starter holes. I wouldn't be against using some of the minor league depth to trade for a younger arm that's under control for a while still. Just not a ton of options like that out there, or with teams that would be willing to deal. I mentioned a few weeks back that if Stroman’s slide continued and he opted in for 2024, picking up the option on Hendricks was going to become complicated. The problem with the rotation outlined above is it doesn’t include Taillon, who as much as we might like to pretend didn’t ink a 4 year deal last winter, well… I don’t see how you can bring back Hendricks for 16m, and even if you restructure his deal to a lower average dollar it pretty much cements that you aren’t adding to the rotation this free agency, which would be a shame considering it’s depth. So my guess is whether Stroman opts in or not determines whether Hendricks gets a spot with the Cubs next season, and all signs point to Stroman’s opting in. And if you want to keep Hendricks at that point you are foregoing adding an ace starter this winter, which doesn’t bode well for next season nor beyond. I think regardless of how much (or little) Hendricks might cost, it's time to move on from him. He's not the same guy he once was, and it's at the point you really don't know what to expect out of him each game. In his last start Sutcliffe was pointing out that Hendricks was missing spots by feet, not just small amounts. The command just isn't there anymore, and he needs that if he wants to be effective. If this team is to get to the next level, he's no longer the guy. They need a legit 1-2 type pitcher IMO. Get a 1-2 to go along with Steele and hopefully Stroman and you're a serious contender. Can't say the same with Hendricks anymore.
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Post by fine09 on Aug 22, 2023 10:39:19 GMT -5
I mentioned a few weeks back that if Stroman’s slide continued and he opted in for 2024, picking up the option on Hendricks was going to become complicated. The problem with the rotation outlined above is it doesn’t include Taillon, who as much as we might like to pretend didn’t ink a 4 year deal last winter, well… I don’t see how you can bring back Hendricks for 16m, and even if you restructure his deal to a lower average dollar it pretty much cements that you aren’t adding to the rotation this free agency, which would be a shame considering it’s depth. So my guess is whether Stroman opts in or not determines whether Hendricks gets a spot with the Cubs next season, and all signs point to Stroman’s opting in. And if you want to keep Hendricks at that point you are foregoing adding an ace starter this winter, which doesn’t bode well for next season nor beyond. I think regardless of how much (or little) Hendricks might cost, it's time to move on from him. He's not the same guy he once was, and it's at the point you really don't know what to expect out of him each game. In his last start Sutcliffe was pointing out that Hendricks was missing spots by feet, not just small amounts. The command just isn't there anymore, and he needs that if he wants to be effective. If this team is to get to the next level, he's no longer the guy. They need a legit 1-2 type pitcher IMO. Get a 1-2 to go along with Steele and hopefully Stroman and you're a serious contender. Can't say the same with Hendricks anymore. I understand where you guys are coming from but I completely disagree with your take on retaining Kyle & I believe they will rework his deal since he will only "cost" us 14-1/2 million for next year & sign him to a 2 year 21 million dollar deal. I think that would be good for him & also a very valuable signing for the Cubs with the young set of pitchers coming up to the big club over the next couple of years. Keep in mind that Kyle who has struggled a bit as of late STILL has an ERA under 4 & his velo on his fastball actually touched 90 mph in his last outing which is huge just giving the extra separation between that & his other pitches. Just having him with his exemplary work ethic & very high intelligence to help mold the next batch of very talented pitchers could pay dividends for years & couple that with him making his starts sitting around a 4 ERA is exactly what we need. And being a World Series hero doesn't hurt either..
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Post by bryzzobrist on Aug 22, 2023 11:29:29 GMT -5
Can’t forget about Taillon. The locks for the rotation next season are likely: Stroman (21m player option) Steele Taillon Hendricks (16m club option) Some have suggested Hendricks being restructured into a 2 year deal with a lower AAV, but whatever they do it’s hard to imagine not bringing him back at this point. Stroman’s second half issues really complicate the rotation for me. Y’all know I’m a big Ohtani guy, sign him for whatever it takes, but it’s very possible we have 37m rotation dollars tied up in huge question marks for next season: Stroman and Taillon. We have young arms in Assad, Wesneski, Brown, Wicks, etc. Who knows what the front office is planning for next year’s rotation right now. Free agency options are plentiful but we’ve got a good bit of glut right now, too. So idunno Another under the radar signing no one has talked about and is having another excellent season at a decent price? Why none other than Clayton Kershaw himself. He has made his money and might actually take a flyer somewhere else. I'd love to snag him on a bridge 1 year deal at maybe 18-20M but I think he will want 3 years minimum. He could be an attractive option and we could have 2 Aces with Steele, but I doubt it happens. Based on him signing deals way below value and at 1 year at a time, I doubt Kershaw ever wears another jersey. He's a loyal Dodger. Only chance IMO is if the team upset him with their antichristian stuff and he decides to take a stand about it.
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Post by rvn11 on Aug 22, 2023 11:37:36 GMT -5
I think regardless of how much (or little) Hendricks might cost, it's time to move on from him. He's not the same guy he once was, and it's at the point you really don't know what to expect out of him each game. In his last start Sutcliffe was pointing out that Hendricks was missing spots by feet, not just small amounts. The command just isn't there anymore, and he needs that if he wants to be effective. If this team is to get to the next level, he's no longer the guy. They need a legit 1-2 type pitcher IMO. Get a 1-2 to go along with Steele and hopefully Stroman and you're a serious contender. Can't say the same with Hendricks anymore. I understand where you guys are coming from but I completely disagree with your take on retaining Kyle & I believe they will rework his deal since he will only "cost" us 14-1/2 million for next year & sign him to a 2 year 21 million dollar deal. I think that would be good for him & also a very valuable signing for the Cubs with the young set of pitchers coming up to the big club over the next couple of years. Keep in mind that Kyle who has struggled a bit as of late STILL has an ERA under 4 & his velo on his fastball actually touched 90 mph in his last outing which is huge just giving the extra separation between that & his other pitches. Just having him with his exemplary work ethic & very high intelligence to help mold the next batch of very talented pitchers could pay dividends for years & couple that with him making his starts sitting around a 4 ERA is exactly what we need. And being a World Series hero doesn't hurt either.. If Stroman opts out then I would be open to Hendricks, but even then I think you can probably do just as well with Assad next year, and for much less.
I have loved everything Kyle accomplished in his time here. I just think they need an upgrade in the rotation if they want to be a serious contender going forward. With the players on the roster and the talent coming up, the rotation is the spot with the greatest opportunity for improvement IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2023 11:42:22 GMT -5
I understand where you guys are coming from but I completely disagree with your take on retaining Kyle & I believe they will rework his deal since he will only "cost" us 14-1/2 million for next year & sign him to a 2 year 21 million dollar deal. I think that would be good for him & also a very valuable signing for the Cubs with the young set of pitchers coming up to the big club over the next couple of years. Keep in mind that Kyle who has struggled a bit as of late STILL has an ERA under 4 & his velo on his fastball actually touched 90 mph in his last outing which is huge just giving the extra separation between that & his other pitches. Just having him with his exemplary work ethic & very high intelligence to help mold the next batch of very talented pitchers could pay dividends for years & couple that with him making his starts sitting around a 4 ERA is exactly what we need. And being a World Series hero doesn't hurt either.. If Stroman opts out then I would be open to Hendricks, but even then I think you can probably do just as well with Assad next year, and for much less.
I have loved everything Kyle accomplished in his time here. I just think they need an upgrade in the rotation if they want to be a serious contender going forward. With the players on the roster and the talent coming up, the rotation is the spot with the greatest opportunity for improvement IMO.
This is where a 1 year bridge contract with another pitcher might not be a bad idea. I think & hope Wicks takes Smyly's spot. After that the obvious conclusion I have is Stro opting in.
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Post by fine09 on Aug 22, 2023 12:20:43 GMT -5
I understand where you guys are coming from but I completely disagree with your take on retaining Kyle & I believe they will rework his deal since he will only "cost" us 14-1/2 million for next year & sign him to a 2 year 21 million dollar deal. I think that would be good for him & also a very valuable signing for the Cubs with the young set of pitchers coming up to the big club over the next couple of years. Keep in mind that Kyle who has struggled a bit as of late STILL has an ERA under 4 & his velo on his fastball actually touched 90 mph in his last outing which is huge just giving the extra separation between that & his other pitches. Just having him with his exemplary work ethic & very high intelligence to help mold the next batch of very talented pitchers could pay dividends for years & couple that with him making his starts sitting around a 4 ERA is exactly what we need. And being a World Series hero doesn't hurt either.. If Stroman opts out then I would be open to Hendricks, but even then I think you can probably do just as well with Assad next year, and for much less.
I have loved everything Kyle accomplished in his time here. I just think they need an upgrade in the rotation if they want to be a serious contender going forward. With the players on the roster and the talent coming up, the rotation is the spot with the greatest opportunity for improvement IMO.
Oh I completely understand where you are coming from & you might turn out to be right. I just feel Kyle will be one of the better #4 / #5 starters in all of MLB next year & for that reason alone I would want him. If Stro can prove to teams that he is healthy this winter (which I personally believe he will be able to do) then he opts out for sure & signs a 3 to 4 year 60 to 80 mil. deal in my opinion. The only way he opt's in is if there is a serious question as to if he'll be able to pitch or not.
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Post by kfidd on Aug 23, 2023 13:21:54 GMT -5
Since this has pretty much become the 2023 offseason thread (?), I have to say I’m convincing myself more and more that Pete Alonso makes a lot of sense. Reports are that both the Cubs and Brewers discussed Alonso with the Mets before the deadline: www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/08/brewers-cubs-among-teams-to-discuss-pete-alonso-with-mets-before-deadline.htmlI know some have mentioned issues with Alonso’s personality in the clubhouse, but we know the bat plays and if the front office trusts his fit I’m all for it. Bonus is we’d make sure his Cubs-killing-bat doesn’t join our division rivals. *shivers* Alonso cost? Only one season of control, I’d have to imagine we’d be content with the cost. The farm is deep, we can afford to use some of that prospect capital rather than let it rot away. I’ve made my stance on Ohtani, I don’t care about the cost, just sign him. Trade for Alonso, maybe bulk up the pen a bit and we’re looking really good for next season. The question that remains for me is what about third base? If we sign Ohtani the Cubs have a decision to make regarding Morel. Does he commit to playing the field for next season at third? Or is the defensive hit too much and instead we go elsewhere? Depending how much they believe in the fast rise of Luis Vazquez, I’d be open to trading Morel. Would hate to lose his energy but you’d drastically improve the offense with the additions of Ohtani and Alonso, can afford a rookie bat at third who brings the defensive prowess that Vazquez does. Assuming PCA acclimates well, the lineup could eventually look like this: CF PCA 2B Hoerner DH Ohtani 1B Alonso SS Swanson RF Suzuki LF Happ C Gomes/Amaya 3B Vazquez With a rotation of: Ohtani Steele Stroman Taillon Insert any of our plus depth names here I like this. Everything starts with Ohtani. If I keep saying “when” and not “if” with him maybe I can will it into existence.
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Post by rvn11 on Aug 23, 2023 13:54:49 GMT -5
Since this has pretty much become the 2023 offseason thread (?), I have to say I’m convincing myself more and more that Pete Alonso makes a lot of sense. Reports are that both the Cubs and Brewers discussed Alonso with the Mets before the deadline: www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/08/brewers-cubs-among-teams-to-discuss-pete-alonso-with-mets-before-deadline.htmlI know some have mentioned issues with Alonso’s personality in the clubhouse, but we know the bat plays and if the front office trusts his fit I’m all for it. Bonus is we’d make sure his Cubs-killing-bat doesn’t join our division rivals. *shivers* Alonso cost? Only one season of control, I’d have to imagine we’d be content with the cost. The farm is deep, we can afford to use some of that prospect capital rather than let it rot away. I’ve made my stance on Ohtani, I don’t care about the cost, just sign him. Trade for Alonso, maybe bulk up the pen a bit and we’re looking really good for next season. The question that remains for me is what about third base? If we sign Ohtani the Cubs have a decision to make regarding Morel. Does he commit to playing the field for next season at third? Or is the defensive hit too much and instead we go elsewhere? Depending how much they believe in the fast rise of Luis Vazquez, I’d be open to trading Morel. Would hate to lose his energy but you’d drastically improve the offense with the additions of Ohtani and Alonso, can afford a rookie bat at third who brings the defensive prowess that Vazquez does. Assuming PCA acclimates well, the lineup could eventually look like this: CF PCA 2B Hoerner DH Ohtani 1B Alonso SS Swanson RF Suzuki LF Happ C Gomes/Amaya 3B Vazquez With a rotation of: Ohtani Steele Stroman Taillon Insert any of our plus depth names here I like this. Everything starts with Ohtani. If I keep saying “when” and not “if” with him maybe I can will it into existence. I don't hate it. I don't want to lose Bellinger, but if you replace him with Ohtani I'm not mad about it.
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Post by lu13cubbie on Aug 23, 2023 15:44:24 GMT -5
I would rather have Bellinger over Alonso. I wouldn't want the Cubs to be crippled by Ohtanis contract.
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Post by kfidd on Aug 23, 2023 16:38:25 GMT -5
I would rather have Bellinger over Alonso. I wouldn't want the Cubs to be crippled by Ohtanis contract. I like Bellinger as plan B depending on what the rest of the off-season looks like. Pair him with a young and talented pitcher like Yamamoto and upgrade at third base and I feel pretty darn good. I do think that Bellinger is a big risk at his next contract, which I’ve guessed is 7/200+. It’s one I’d still like the Cubs to take as plan B, but I’m much less optimistic than many on here regarding Bellinger as a lineup anchor for years ahead. But should the Cubs whiff on Ohtani, I’d happily welcome Bellinger back. Heck, I’d welcome him back even if the Cubs do sign Ohtani, but that might be a little bit too greedy at that point. 😈
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Post by 2mileshighillini on Aug 23, 2023 17:30:53 GMT -5
Plan B? Lol. Ohtani removed from today's game. Removed twice this month. Think twice about that $50M contract getting hurt and sitting.
Ohtani gets hurt and you lose your #1 Pitcher & #1 Power Hitter. If he doesn't pitch, then why are you paying him $50M?
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Post by bryzzobrist on Aug 23, 2023 17:43:35 GMT -5
Plan B? Lol. Ohtani removed from today's game. Removed twice this month. Think twice about that $50M contract getting hurt and sitting. Ohtani gets hurt and you lose your #1 Pitcher & #1 Power Hitter. If he doesn't pitch, then why are you paying him $50M? He's twice as likely to get inured as the next guy from being a 2 way player, and he already has a history. A team hiring a player for reasons not on the field- thats a team i dont want to be with. It would be fun for a while, but if he really is going to get >450 million dollars, im leaning to pass. There's good options available to work when that arent in the record-setting price range, so there's no need to go there and tank the team down the road for a guy who not likely to even almost earn that deal unless he turns into the best player of all time. And for anyone whos response is that he might be- countless players are monsters for a few years in a row. Very few do it long term. Shohei will be a legend for another reason imo- the obvious reason of being a 2 way guy from japan who came over and shook the earth for a handful of seasons.
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Post by lu13cubbie on Aug 23, 2023 17:49:13 GMT -5
Plan B? Lol. Ohtani removed from today's game. Removed twice this month. Think twice about that $50M contract getting hurt and sitting. Ohtani gets hurt and you lose your #1 Pitcher & #1 Power Hitter. If he doesn't pitch, then why are you paying him $50M? If you have a player holding down two roles and being paid 50 million, or 1/5th of your pay role, where do you get the funds to replace him with two players if he gets hurt?
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Post by kfidd on Aug 23, 2023 20:04:35 GMT -5
Why are we talking about injuries as a reason to not pursue Ohtani yet getting all excitable about how necessary it is to bring Bellinger back? Are we forgetting who Bellinger has been in recent seasons, all due to injuries? Bellinger also missed a full month of play this season too let’s not forget.
Can’t use injuries and worry of wasted payroll on Ohtani but not Bellinger. And again, I’m not against signing Bellinger long term. I just have my reservations about his performance, similarly to how some here are sharing their reservations of Ohtani and if he gets injured. Any free agent signing carries risk. But I know one thing about Ohtani is that when he plays, and he most often does, he provides tremendous on field value and has season after season.
Bellinger has had plenty of his own injury concerns, was terrible offensively these last 2.5 seasons, is overperforming his metrics this season, and will likely cost 25-30m annually. He’d likely be worth the risk of keeping around, key word being risk. Bellinger is no guarantee just the same as Ohtani is no guarantee. And before anyone compares their projected annual salaries, what other starting pitcher are we bringing in that won’t carry their own risks like Ohtani?
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Post by kfidd on Aug 24, 2023 0:58:24 GMT -5
^^^ That’s some timing I have right there.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2023 1:53:52 GMT -5
Terrible news but the strange part is that the 1st TJS only gave him 4 years of pitching productivity. I wonder if this resets the market strategy for owners when pursuing big arms it should and contracts should be no more than 5-7 years considerig the risks.
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