|
Post by batman66 on Sept 28, 2023 9:21:16 GMT -5
so there’s a difference right? what's the difference? they're contending for a playoff spot right now. you got to get in dam playoffs to get a chance at world series Unless my eyes are going , I don't see World Series in the title of this thread . I see contending team , am I right ?
|
|
|
Post by batman66 on Sept 28, 2023 9:35:13 GMT -5
First of all I defend you when people say that , I don't see you as one in any way shape or form. And there are no "semantics" WebThe meaning of CONTENDER is one that contends; especially : a competitor for a championship or high honor. 99.9 % of the people on here I would say define a contender as a team that is competing for a playoff spot until the later part of a season , or if one wants to get even firmer on the definition it would be is a playoff team , not one that is "championship level" . if that's the case then there are only a few contenders in the entire sport. Your last sentence is correct, only a few true contenders each year and at times outliers like the Phillies last year with two aces and a pen. The Cubs are not true contenders, if they were, people would not be accepting a first round playoff exit as a successful season or an 84 win season as a success. The Cubs should be in the playoffs because frankly there are not many good teams and they are one of the best six teams out of 15. If they had a better manager they would not be on the bubble of the playoffs. So many teams make the playoffs and it is so watered down. I would define any team who is in the playoff race as a contender, certainly one still in it the last week of a season. Legit world series contender they are not because I don't think they are on the Braves, Dodgers , Orioles level and yes, that's an entire different thing than just a "contender" and I don't see World Series in the title of this thread and ANY past conversations between the OP regarding when they will contend had just meant be in a pennant race and be a possible playoff team , but now it's being twisted because people simply can't admit to being wrong.
|
|
|
Post by 2mileshighillini on Sept 28, 2023 9:42:27 GMT -5
You guys are all being played for suckers by an internet troll. A guy who lives to make everybody as miserable as he is. A guy who stays up at night, thinking of ways to do it. A guy who waits for the most opportune time to pounce. A guy who actually gets more miserable, when others aren't.
Everybody knows the meaning of contender. Everybody knows what it's like, to not contend.
We're tied for a Playoff spot, after 158 games. We're losing by 1 Run to the greatest offensive show in the history of the game. The odds on, World Series favorite and a recent World Series Champion, to boot. Everybody sees the difference between this year and last year, and the nightmare years, before 2015.
And now that we are contending for a Playoff Spot, the meaning of contend is changed to fit an agenda. It had to be changed to string you along. And you're all strung.
|
|
|
Post by trav768 on Sept 28, 2023 9:47:54 GMT -5
what's the difference? they're contending for a playoff spot right now. you got to get in dam playoffs to get a chance at world series Unless my eyes are going , I don't see World Series in the title of this thread . I see contending team , am I right ? contending is not defined. got to contend for a postseason spot. ether contending for a division or a wild card. then contend for NLDS championship. then NLCS championship. now you get to contend for a world series championship.
|
|
|
Post by Cubtastic on Sept 28, 2023 10:10:41 GMT -5
For this team to contend for a world series they need another starter, major bullpen help and a stud in the middle of their lineup (on top of resigning CB) that way you can move Swanson down to 7th, he is not a 5th place hitter on a legit contender.The Cubs are way to much feast or famine, score 10 and then score 1 or 2, lineup lacks a guy in the middle the rakes no matter who is on the mound. They also need to have defined rolls in the bullpen before forking July! There is ALOT of work to do in the off season.
|
|
|
Post by irishcubfan on Sept 28, 2023 10:22:20 GMT -5
Your last sentence is correct, only a few true contenders each year and at times outliers like the Phillies last year with two aces and a pen. The Cubs are not true contenders, if they were, people would not be accepting a first round playoff exit as a successful season or an 84 win season as a success. The Cubs should be in the playoffs because frankly there are not many good teams and they are one of the best six teams out of 15. If they had a better manager they would not be on the bubble of the playoffs. So many teams make the playoffs and it is so watered down. I would define any team who is in the playoff race as a contender, certainly one still in it the last week of a season. Legit world series contender they are not because I don't think they are on the Braves, Dodgers , Orioles level and yes, that's an entire different thing than just a "contender" and I don't see World Series in the title of this thread and ANY past conversations between the OP regarding when they will contend had just meant be in a pennant race and be a possible playoff team , but now it's being twisted because people simply can't admit to being wrong. Never a twist from me, have always viewed the word contention in any sport as championship contenders. I don't give a damn about NL central banners or WC flags. Sure the Cubs have given us a few more wins than many (certainly me) anticipated this year however can't label this team as true contenders with this pitching staff/ idiot manager and the near certainty of losing their best offensive player in the off-season. Padres were in contention all year, fan base and org are and were super stoked about the season.
|
|
|
Post by 2mileshighillini on Sept 28, 2023 10:24:12 GMT -5
For this team to contend for a world series they need another starter, major bullpen help and a stud in the middle of their lineup (on top of resigning CB) that way you can move Swanson down to 7th, he is not a 5th place hitter on a legit contender.The Cubs are way to much feast or famine, score 10 and then score 1 or 2, lineup lacks a guy in the middle the rakes no matter who is on the mound. They also need to have defined rolls in the bullpen before forking July! There is ALOT of work to do in the off season. There's no doubt, we need help. Everybody does, except 1 team. We don't have 1 single bopper on the team (But, imagine if we did). Our 3 Hitter has hit 20 HR's... 13 of them with the bases empty. 2 of them with multiple runners on base (1, last week). That's our 3 Hitter, in a nutshell. We don't have enough quality arms, but we're closer than you portray. Our best 2 Bullpen arms aren't even playing (which would cripple ANY other team). The Braves won the World Series: (6-2) (2-0) (3-2) (7-0) They surrendered 4 Runs total, in the 4 games they won. They surrendered 16 Runs in the 2 games they lost. They scored 1 or 2 Runs, four times, during their Playoff Run. They scored 3 Runs, another 4 times. That's 8 games within a month, of scoring 3 Runs or less and they were World Series Champions. We have scored 3 or less, 7 times this month. When we won our World Series, we didn't even have our most defined Bullpen guy, until... AUGUST. The Braves didn't have their World Series MVP, until... AUGUST.
|
|
|
Post by irishcubfan on Sept 28, 2023 10:47:21 GMT -5
For this team to contend for a world series they need another starter, major bullpen help and a stud in the middle of their lineup (on top of resigning CB) that way you can move Swanson down to 7th, he is not a 5th place hitter on a legit contender.The Cubs are way to much feast or famine, score 10 and then score 1 or 2, lineup lacks a guy in the middle the rakes no matter who is on the mound. They also need to have defined rolls in the bullpen before forking July! There is ALOT of work to do in the off season. I assume Bellinger is as good as gone. The only available power hitter that makes sense is a trade for Alonso. That would be the route I would go. I think the Cubs may go the route of Candy or Hoskins instead of unloading prospects. They for sure need PCA or Canario or unknown at this time CF to be an unexpected offensive force next year (blow the doors off of start like Morel). Hope they work with Morel at 3b and knock of the multi position/DH thing. This team is already locked in at most every other position.
|
|
|
Post by fine09 on Sept 28, 2023 12:10:49 GMT -5
No matter what happens from here on out we can state that the Cubs are certainly competitive this year & this is due to them “re-tooling” as opposed to re-building when they traded off the soon to be free agent “core” for outstanding value as compared to the 47th. & 80th. Pick in the next draft. It would have been a horrible business move to do that. That's bullshit. This is mainly due to the 1 year "prove it" deal they gave Belly and you know it. The Cubs ARE competitive & that is not bullshit. It doesn't matter at all you plug in why or how they are - they still are competitive. And yes Belli is a big part of that but so was Stroman in the first half along with the BP at times & also due to how well Assad, Adbert & Wicks are pitching too. No, they are not going to win it all this year, in fact if they don't get their act together right now they aren't even going to make the playoffs but that doesn't change the fact that they are competitive right now - in 2023..
|
|
|
Post by batman66 on Sept 28, 2023 13:28:16 GMT -5
I would define any team who is in the playoff race as a contender, certainly one still in it the last week of a season. Legit world series contender they are not because I don't think they are on the Braves, Dodgers , Orioles level and yes, that's an entire different thing than just a "contender" and I don't see World Series in the title of this thread and ANY past conversations between the OP regarding when they will contend had just meant be in a pennant race and be a possible playoff team , but now it's being twisted because people simply can't admit to being wrong. Never a twist from me, have always viewed the word contention in any sport as championship contenders. I don't give a damn about NL central banners or WC flags. Sure the Cubs have given us a few more wins than many (certainly me) anticipated this year however can't label this team as true contenders with this pitching staff/ idiot manager and the near certainty of losing their best offensive player in the off-season. Padres were in contention all year, fan base and org are and were super stoked about the season. I get what you are saying , but here is the thing. While I agree they don't seem like a legit championship contender, that is never known UNTIL a team gets in the playoffs. And in a playoff series anything can happen. Otherwise for the true aspect of what you are saying a contender is (champion caliber or bust) what's the point of having a playoff then? Just hand the best team in the league the title. There have been a lot of times a lower seed in many sports ends up being the Champion , and they certainly had not been looked at as champion caliber going into the playoffs. Bottom line though , Fitz knows damn well in any of the multiple conversations since the Cubs sold off the core that when he mentioned contender he meant be in the race for a playoff spot .
|
|
|
Post by fine09 on Sept 28, 2023 13:59:34 GMT -5
I would define any team who is in the playoff race as a contender, certainly one still in it the last week of a season. Legit world series contender they are not because I don't think they are on the Braves, Dodgers , Orioles level and yes, that's an entire different thing than just a "contender" and I don't see World Series in the title of this thread and ANY past conversations between the OP regarding when they will contend had just meant be in a pennant race and be a possible playoff team , but now it's being twisted because people simply can't admit to being wrong. Never a twist from me, have always viewed the word contention in any sport as championship contenders. I don't give a damn about NL central banners or WC flags. Sure the Cubs have given us a few more wins than many (certainly me) anticipated this year however can't label this team as true contenders with this pitching staff/ idiot manager and the near certainty of losing their best offensive player in the off-season. Padres were in contention all year, fan base and org are and were super stoked about the season. "I always viewed the word contention in any sport as championship contenders"Well if this was the case then there are only what maybe 5 teams that are actual "contenders", because that is what we are taking about in this topic, when they will become competitive & contending.. If you make the playoffs you are competitive & contending (just ask the Phillies & the Nationals)...
|
|
|
Post by fine09 on Sept 28, 2023 14:02:40 GMT -5
Unless my eyes are going , I don't see World Series in the title of this thread . I see contending team , am I right ? contending is not defined. got to contend for a postseason spot. ether contending for a division or a wild card. then contend for NLDS championship. then NLCS championship. now you get to contend for a world series championship. Amen..
|
|
|
Post by batman66 on Sept 28, 2023 14:15:19 GMT -5
Never a twist from me, have always viewed the word contention in any sport as championship contenders. I don't give a damn about NL central banners or WC flags. Sure the Cubs have given us a few more wins than many (certainly me) anticipated this year however can't label this team as true contenders with this pitching staff/ idiot manager and the near certainty of losing their best offensive player in the off-season. Padres were in contention all year, fan base and org are and were super stoked about the season. "I always viewed the word contention in any sport as championship contenders"Well if this was the case then there are only what maybe 5 teams that are actual "contenders", because that is what we are taking about in this topic, when they will become competitive & contending.. If you make the playoffs you are competitive & contending (just ask the Phillies & the Nationals)... I guess we'd have to say the Nationals are world champions, but not contenders.
|
|
|
Post by fine09 on Sept 28, 2023 14:35:56 GMT -5
"I always viewed the word contention in any sport as championship contenders"Well if this was the case then there are only what maybe 5 teams that are actual "contenders", because that is what we are taking about in this topic, when they will become competitive & contending.. If you make the playoffs you are competitive & contending (just ask the Phillies & the Nationals)... I guess we'd have to say the Nationals are world champions, but not contenders. Exactly. Color me Cubbie Blue but I'd take another championship & not be considered being contenders by some of our own fans any day..
|
|
|
Post by jpepitone on Sept 28, 2023 14:52:04 GMT -5
For those who think you have to be a 100-win team to be a “World Series contender”…..if the Cubs win tonite, it’ll be their 83rd win, the same as the 2006 Turds (who unfortunately went on to win it all).
|
|
|
Post by irishcubfan on Sept 28, 2023 15:30:03 GMT -5
"I always viewed the word contention in any sport as championship contenders"Well if this was the case then there are only what maybe 5 teams that are actual "contenders", because that is what we are taking about in this topic, when they will become competitive & contending.. If you make the playoffs you are competitive & contending (just ask the Phillies & the Nationals)... I guess we'd have to say the Nationals are world champions, but not contenders. I viewed the Nats as contenders that year. In a previous post I mentioned teams can win in the playoffs with 2 aces and a strong/hot pen. The Nats team also won 92 if I recall correctly and were hot going in. And this is something the Cubs don't have this year. If the Cubs makes the playoffs this year no one expects them to advance far. If that is deemed to be contending Cubs fans need to have higher expectations.
|
|
|
Post by irishcubfan on Sept 28, 2023 15:40:45 GMT -5
Never a twist from me, have always viewed the word contention in any sport as championship contenders. I don't give a damn about NL central banners or WC flags. Sure the Cubs have given us a few more wins than many (certainly me) anticipated this year however can't label this team as true contenders with this pitching staff/ idiot manager and the near certainty of losing their best offensive player in the off-season. Padres were in contention all year, fan base and org are and were super stoked about the season. "I always viewed the word contention in any sport as championship contenders"Well if this was the case then there are only what maybe 5 teams that are actual "contenders", because that is what we are taking about in this topic, when they will become competitive & contending.. If you make the playoffs you are competitive & contending (just ask the Phillies & the Nationals)... 12 teams make the playoffs in baseball, not all 12 are legit contenders. The bar is lower and lower to make the playoffs. Let's put in half of the teams a couple of years from now so 50 percent of the league can be contenders. Let's take the NBA as another example. Do people really expect 8 seeds to advance and win championships?
|
|
|
Post by holycow23 on Sept 28, 2023 16:40:02 GMT -5
The text book definition of a contender is a competitor for a championship. So if you make the playoffs you are technically a contender. How big of a contender is the question. So if Steve wants to make the arguement that the cubs are not contenders he should wait until Monday. If the cubs dont make the playoffs then they werent contenders this season. They were contenders for a playoff spot. And then I would classify 2023 as them being competitive. But using different sports really isnt a fair comparision. A 16 seed in the NCAA tournament is a contenter but in basketball majority of the time the better team wins. In the MLB if you win 60 percent of your games you are considered great against the entire league. In the playoffs you play better teams and baseball is a very fickle sport.
|
|
|
Post by batman66 on Sept 28, 2023 20:34:13 GMT -5
"I always viewed the word contention in any sport as championship contenders"Well if this was the case then there are only what maybe 5 teams that are actual "contenders", because that is what we are taking about in this topic, when they will become competitive & contending.. If you make the playoffs you are competitive & contending (just ask the Phillies & the Nationals)... 12 teams make the playoffs in baseball, not all 12 are legit contenders. The bar is lower and lower to make the playoffs. Let's put in half of the teams a couple of years from now so 50 percent of the league can be contenders. Let's take the NBA as another example. Do people really expect 8 seeds to advance and win championships? It doesn't matter how many teams there are to use the word "contender" if you are a team fighting for a playoff spot playing meaniingful baseball until the end of the season you are a contender in my book and I would think most people's. Using the word is not saying they are a favorite to win it all , but they have a chance since anything can happen in a short playoff series. We can even throw out the term all together , Fitz point from the origin as it was in MANY conversations since the selling off of the core was about when they will be a team atleast fighting for a playoff spot again . he knows it , we all know it.
|
|
|
Post by holycow23 on Sept 28, 2023 21:22:31 GMT -5
12 teams make the playoffs in baseball, not all 12 are legit contenders. The bar is lower and lower to make the playoffs. Let's put in half of the teams a couple of years from now so 50 percent of the league can be contenders. Let's take the NBA as another example. Do people really expect 8 seeds to advance and win championships? It doesn't matter how many teams there are to use the word "contender" if you are a team fighting for a playoff spot playing meaniingful baseball until the end of the season you are a contender in my book and I would think most people's. Using the word is not saying they are a favorite to win it all , but they have a chance since anything can happen in a short playoff series. We can even throw out the term all together , Fitz point from the origin as it was in MANY conversations since the selling off of the core was about when they will be a team atleast fighting for a playoff spot again . he knows it , we all know it. No team that didnt make the playoffs or a tournament have won a championship.
|
|