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Post by fine09 on Sept 25, 2023 11:28:49 GMT -5
No matter what happens from here on out we can state that the Cubs are certainly competitive this year & this is due to them “re-tooling” as opposed to re-building when they traded off the soon to be free agent “core” for outstanding value as compared to the 47th. & 80th. Pick in the next draft. It would have been a horrible business move to do that. That's why I had been saying all this time it was more of a re-tool because that jump start they got on everything by making those trades was akin to 2-3 years of tanking to get high draft picks and that's why I said it was not going to be like last time and take anywhere near as long because they brought in a lot of talent through those trades that they didn't need to do what they did last time and that the signing of guys like Stroman and Suzuki was another indicator it would not be a drawn out rebuild. I mean they are back into being a contender already with very minimal major league input from players they got in those deals so far so I think re-tooling is the more proper term. So the fact they are a contender before those guys really start to help is even more encouraging and the future is looking very bright because they also have a surplus of what I label as expendable talent that can be used in trade. This winter is going to really be fun to see where they go from here. I hate to keep saying it because I already know I'm obsessive about it, but they have to sign Bellinger or it's going to be a huge step backwards. The man is closing in on 100 rbi's and he's missed around 30 games. A few weeks ago Boras was quoted by one of the sites at the possibility of a 300 mil deal for Cody & I would be 100% against that, heck I would be 75% against a 200 mil deal at this point & not because he isn't a great player, it's just that I don't believe he is a top 3 talent in all of baseball. If they are going to spend 300 mil then I want the potential Ace pitcher from Japan, Chapman & another top 10 free agent from this years group. That would give the Cubs the potential of 10 to 14 WAR as opposed to Belli's first year of an 8 to 10 year deal where if he does very well you are looking at 1/2 of that WAR best case. I would love to re-sign Cody but not at all costs because that would be no better than to have re-signed our "core" for an over-pay which would have set us back 10 years in the competitive window & we just can't have that.. |
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Post by batman66 on Sept 25, 2023 12:16:05 GMT -5
I missed that Boras quote , but I think it's crazy if that's what Boras is going to be seeking.
I've seen a lot of reports saying that he'd be more in the Swanson/ Nimmo type contract range like maybe 170-200 ish range because of this one great season won't erase the bad previous ones in most GM's minds but who knows , I'm horrible at reading player markets.
I don't see the Cubs going to that kind of level to keep him, but I could see the 170-200 range happening.
I would love Yamamoto , but I think I've finally made up my mind on Chapman and it's a no go.
I still love his D and it would give the Cubs one of the potentially better IF defenses that I can remember, but his bat doesn't impress me at all anymore.
He had an out of this world April, since then he's been brutal.
I don't want to do the math , but after that great April I think he's under .200 since then and the only thing he's done well with the bat is hit doubles, his homers are way down and his RISP .223, 2 OUT RISP .186 numbers , not very impressive .
I know he'd be a better option than Shaw for 2024 , but beyong that , is he ?
I know I'm probably jumping the gun on Shaw, and it's just a great half season and they can't bank on anything from him in 2024 at tha major league level and you can't have too many young bats you can rely on when you are a legit contender, but I don't see Shaw needing multiple seasons until he is ready , so spending what it would take on Chapman , I'd rather way over pay on Bellinger.
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Post by fine09 on Sept 25, 2023 14:17:05 GMT -5
I missed that Boras quote , but I think it's crazy if that's what Boras is going to be seeking. I've seen a lot of reports saying that he'd be more in the Swanson/ Nimmo type contract range like maybe 170-200 ish range because of this one great season won't erase the bad previous ones in most GM's minds but who knows , I'm horrible at reading player markets. I don't see the Cubs going to that kind of level to keep him, but I could see the 170-200 range happening. I would love Yamamoto , but I think I've finally made up my mind on Chapman and it's a no go. I still love his D and it would give the Cubs one of the potentially better IF defenses that I can remember, but his bat doesn't impress me at all anymore. He had an out of this world April, since then he's been brutal. I don't want to do the math , but after that great April I think he's under .200 since then and the only thing he's done well with the bat is hit doubles, his homers are way down and his RISP .223, 2 OUT RISP .186 numbers , not very impressive . I know he'd be a better option than Shaw for 2024 , but beyong that , is he ? I know I'm probably jumping the gun on Shaw, and it's just a great half season and they can't bank on anything from him in 2024 at tha major league level and you can't have too many young bats you can rely on when you are a legit contender, but I don't see Shaw needing multiple seasons until he is ready , so spending what it would take on Chapman , I'd rather way over pay on Bellinger. Oh I'd be all in on an 8 year 170-200 deal on Belli without hesitation.. I also would not target Chapman, I just used him as the example of what/who you could get for 300 mil as an alternative to a massive 300 mil deal on Belli if Boras won't budge. If Stro does opt in for next year I think that answers the Hendricks question for the Cubs because I don't think there is going to be room for 8 starting pitchers of that level & I don't see them wanting to trade Horton, Wicks, Assad, Brown or Hayden with the years of very cheap control that they have on those guys. |
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Post by kfidd on Sept 25, 2023 14:22:12 GMT -5
I’m out on Chapman as well. I love the defense he brings, it’s majestic! But I think we need a bigger offensive presence in mind at third than he, and he’s already on the wrong side of 30. Maybe Shaw could eventually be that guy, maybe not. Personally I like the idea of sticking with internal options at third base for now, seeing how certain guys develop. Worst case scenario those guys don’t take the steps forward we need them to and we can be players in the Murakami race come 2025.
I think the best case scenario for third base next season lies with Morel. For such a gifted athlete, it seems re-donkulous to me that he can’t become a passable defensive third baseman. Doesn’t need to be a gold glover, just passable. That keeps his bat and his high energy in the lineup everyday while also freeing up DH. And if you can free up DH, that presents other opportunities. For example, just because Ohtani can’t pitch next season doesn’t mean he couldn’t still be worth a hefty contract. His OPS with RISP by season since he entered the league:
2018: 1.136
2019: .889
2020: .615 (2020…)
2021: 1.165
2022: 1.213
2023: .989
Some guys just know how to get the job done, and Ohtani has never been phased by the spotlight. Who wouldn’t love that type of consistently elite production batting 2nd or 3rd in our lineup with all the offensive dry spells we’ve gone through this season where it felt like we couldn’t buy a hit with RISP? I know I sure would.
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Post by bryzzobrist on Sept 25, 2023 14:34:12 GMT -5
Hot damn those 4 years went by quick!
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Post by kfidd on Sept 25, 2023 14:41:05 GMT -5
If the day comes the Cubs sign Bellinger in the off-season I’ll be doing kart wheels, though I’ll still be nervous about such a hefty length of contract for him as has been discussed here. For as excellent as he’s been at times this season, he was still a non-factor through all of May and June and has been slowing down pretty rapidly here during September. That coupled with his last three years of production and color me weary.
Again, I’d still be excited to have him back. That would show a committed front office that wants to win and recognizes this new era of Cubs baseball opportunity. Just don’t think it’s my preferred off-season approach.
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Post by holycow23 on Sept 25, 2023 18:03:50 GMT -5
I thought it would be 2024 but Bellingers performance has turned a hoping for a .500 season into a hoping for a playoff spot type season. Im just curious what the market will be like this offseason. At this time last season if you told me the contracts Turner and Xander would get I would think you were nuts. So it sounds like Boras is hoping for that again. Will a team go 13 years 300 million on Belli? IDK. If so we all know the cubs will be out. But if its in the 7 to 8 year range go for it. The cubs have the money. First and third are the only positions really up in the air right now for the cubs future. I see really no need for Chapman. Im a big Shaw believer and Nick M is a good fallback option. So I think we are a firstbasemen and another legit starter from being big time contenders. Wicks has big solid so far and looks to be a worse case scenario a 5th starter. Horton is close and will definitely be a solid starter. Only question with him is how good. So having Wicks Horton and Steele under control for the next 4 years at a reasonable cost puts the cubs in excellent position moving forward.
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Post by chubbycub on Sept 25, 2023 20:59:36 GMT -5
Hey, how about THIS TEAM??? Screw all that talk about 2026.
Sorry to get back on topic, but I have no carefully thought out thoughts.
You just have to get a ticket to the dance.
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Post by kfidd on Sept 26, 2023 9:59:19 GMT -5
Hey, how about THIS TEAM??? Screw all that talk about 2026. Sorry to get back on topic, but I have no carefully thought out thoughts. You just have to get a ticket to the dance. This team is exciting! Off days are, however, boring. And I’m excited about next year, too! www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/09/padres-plan-to-reduce-payroll-to-around-200mm-front-office-changes-possible.htmlI have no idea what the Padres current payroll situation is but they were rumored for a long time to be in on Ohtani and Lee this off-season. Maybe this takes them out of that running. Maybe it also makes it more plausible that Tatis Jr or Soto could be traded. Or maybe not. Who knows, but I’d love to be in on either of those guys if they do become available. |
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Post by batman66 on Sept 26, 2023 10:18:33 GMT -5
Hey, how about THIS TEAM??? Screw all that talk about 2026. Sorry to get back on topic, but I have no carefully thought out thoughts. You just have to get a ticket to the dance. This team is exciting! Off days are, however, boring. And I’m excited about next year, too! www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/09/padres-plan-to-reduce-payroll-to-around-200mm-front-office-changes-possible.htmlI have no idea what the Padres current payroll situation is but they were rumored for a long time to be in on Ohtani and Lee this off-season. Maybe this takes them out of that running. Maybe it also makes it more plausible that Tatis Jr or Soto could be traded. Or maybe not. Who knows, but I’d love to be in on either of those guys if they do become available. Right now they are at 296 , so that's a big drop and 2024 current commitment is 209 after Snell, Hader, Pomeranz and some lesser contracts come off , but that doesn't include Soto's arb number which will put them back over 235 so I could see them trying to unload Tatis or Soto |
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Sept 26, 2023 16:06:28 GMT -5
I’m going 2027, maybe 2026. Now that they’re about to shed the team of the last of the remaining players (Happ & Willy), 2023 will be the start of the climb. The focus will be on bringing up young talent and signing established vets to help. This is going to be a long 4 years 😬 "2023 will be the start of the climb." Yup, haters will hate |
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Sept 26, 2023 16:07:27 GMT -5
<<This is going to be a long 4 years 😬>> Are you glad they went into leap year mode ? No matter what happens from here on out we can state that the Cubs are certainly competitive this year & this is due to them “re-tooling” as opposed to re-building when they traded off the soon to be free agent “core” for outstanding value as compared to the 47th. & 80th. Pick in the next draft. It would have been a horrible business move to do that. That's bullshit. This is mainly due to the 1 year "prove it" deal they gave Belly and you know it. |
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Sept 26, 2023 16:08:13 GMT -5
Hot damn those 4 years went by quick! We're calling the Cubs "contenders" now? I mean, they have a shot at the playoffs..... ok. |
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Post by trav768 on Sept 26, 2023 16:23:11 GMT -5
they are contending for a playoff spot and did have a shot at division.
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Post by kfidd on Sept 26, 2023 16:32:07 GMT -5
they are contending for a playoff spot and did have a shot at division. *DO have a shot. We gotta BELIEVE! |
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Post by trav768 on Sept 26, 2023 16:37:47 GMT -5
they are contending for a playoff spot and did have a shot at division. *DO have a shot. We gotta BELIEVE! yeah, but point is they're contenders |
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Post by kfidd on Sept 26, 2023 16:45:40 GMT -5
*DO have a shot. We gotta BELIEVE! yeah, but point is they're contenders Damn right they are. If the season ended today they’d be playing October baseball. And we’ve seen it numerous times where all it takes is to get in and then anything can happen. |
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Post by trav768 on Sept 26, 2023 17:09:58 GMT -5
yeah, but point is they're contenders Damn right they are. If the season ended today they’d be playing October baseball. And we’ve seen it numerous times where all it takes is to get in and then anything can happen. even if they don't make playoffs, they still contended for a spot up to the very end. to even be talking about possible playoffs is remarkable considering the teams record in June and July. they were sellers, a late push before the deadline turn them into buyers. Cubs are playing meaningful games at end of a season and that's all we can ask for. |
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Sept 27, 2023 9:56:50 GMT -5
I guess for me when I think of "contender" I think of a championship level team.
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Post by batman66 on Sept 27, 2023 10:13:44 GMT -5
I guess for me when I think of "contender" I think of a championship level team. Holy shit , you really trying to spin it that way now? Come on dude, this is why some people throw the troll monicker at you ( which I defend you by the way ) |
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