|
|
Post by fine09 on Jul 29, 2022 20:03:49 GMT -5
It's just hard for me to get excited over players in A-ball. A-ball is more of a testament to those that aren't going to cut it. If you can't hit, pitch, or play defense in A-ball then you're not going to make it to the majors. You never hear anything about Alejandro Rivero or Matt Warkentin, because they're not hitting in A-ball. The one saving grace that you have in A-Ball is that you have time to figure it out, but as age starts to creep up on you. If you're approaching your mid 20's and you're still not hitting or being talked about... the odds are just way out of your favor of ever making it to the majors. The inverse of that is not necessarily true either - just because you're hitting (or pitching or playing defense) in A-ball doesn't mean you'll make it to the majors. But to have any glimmer of hope of making it to the majors you HAVE to be doing that in A-ball. There is a notorious wall that players/prospects hit in AA because you've weeded out the ones from A-ball that clearly (although I never want to say there is a 0% chance) are not going to make it to the majors. I do agree though, that players that quickly master AA usually don't spend a lot of time at AAA. AAA is less development and more overflow for the major league club in regards to injuries. Sure prospects can gain some experience hitting against pitchers that have been in the majors, but if those pitchers are in AAA then they're probably not consistent MLB talent. High end opposition talent, from a prospect's perspective, usually peaks in AA. That's why I like to see a prospect have success at the AA level before anointing them as future major leaguers or core pieces. You have a point on A ball guys but you also are making the assumption that a team is completely built on its own minor league system & that a great A ball player can’t help unless he beats the odds & makes it to the bigs. But not if you use some of those prospects when they are hot to trade for your target player be it in the minors or MLB. That way you don’t always have to bet on the kid continuing to excel on the way up. I do believe in many of our youngsters in A & higher that we have & so do the rating agencies that also believe they are studs. |
|
|
|
Post by bryzzo on Jul 30, 2022 0:49:44 GMT -5
I know we need pitching, but we need to break the bank for Aaron Judge in the offseason. Make him the face of the franchise. We would still have money to sign some free agent pitching too. There is not a single free agent who would have a greater impact on our team. Soto to the Cardinals would be even more of a reason to get Judge.
|
|
|
|
Post by batman66 on Jul 30, 2022 11:05:28 GMT -5
I know we need pitching, but we need to break the bank for Aaron Judge in the offseason. Make him the face of the franchise. We would still have money to sign some free agent pitching too. There is not a single free agent who would have a greater impact on our team. Soto to the Cardinals would be even more of a reason to get Judge. I don't disagree. Even though the Cubs are loaded with possible future OF's He would be a HUGE statement move , even more so than Lester was the last rebuild. He would be a great face of the franchise to build around and show everybody they are now serious about winning. |
|
|
|
Post by batman66 on Jul 30, 2022 11:10:21 GMT -5
It's just hard for me to get excited over players in A-ball. A-ball is more of a testament to those that aren't going to cut it. If you can't hit, pitch, or play defense in A-ball then you're not going to make it to the majors. You never hear anything about Alejandro Rivero or Matt Warkentin, because they're not hitting in A-ball. The one saving grace that you have in A-Ball is that you have time to figure it out, but as age starts to creep up on you. If you're approaching your mid 20's and you're still not hitting or being talked about... the odds are just way out of your favor of ever making it to the majors. The inverse of that is not necessarily true either - just because you're hitting (or pitching or playing defense) in A-ball doesn't mean you'll make it to the majors. But to have any glimmer of hope of making it to the majors you HAVE to be doing that in A-ball. There is a notorious wall that players/prospects hit in AA because you've weeded out the ones from A-ball that clearly (although I never want to say there is a 0% chance) are not going to make it to the majors. I do agree though, that players that quickly master AA usually don't spend a lot of time at AAA. AAA is less development and more overflow for the major league club in regards to injuries. Sure prospects can gain some experience hitting against pitchers that have been in the majors, but if those pitchers are in AAA then they're probably not consistent MLB talent. High end opposition talent, from a prospect's perspective, usually peaks in AA. That's why I like to see a prospect have success at the AA level before anointing them as future major leaguers or core pieces. I get what you're saying. But I have followed a lot of these guys from draft day, or day of trade and read about , seen a lot of them and there are certain ones you just know have it while others might put up surprising numbers and then get your attention . Especially the ones who are thriving and are younger than most of the league. Gotta pay attention to age at the level they are , even though it's harder to now because 2020 and having no season threw everybody off. AA like you said is usually the better gauge for players though for sure. |
|
|
|
Post by cfin on Jul 30, 2022 13:03:28 GMT -5
You have a point on A ball guys but you also are making the assumption that a team is completely built on its own minor league system & that a great A ball player can’t help unless he beats the odds & makes it to the bigs. This is probably true. I'm more of a fan of building from within than spending heavy in free agency. I think the list of players that have signed HUGE contracts with other teams in free agency and then continued to put up spectacular numbers is very small. It just seems to me that more times than not, when you sign a free agent to a big contract it often takes a season or two for that player's production to get back to what it was and by then you've lost a couple of prime years so the decline's already started. Someone mentioned signing Judge. And no doubt, on paper it looks like a great idea. But what if he doesn't perform outside of New York? You can be left with an albatross of a contract. Everybody will want to say "No, he's so good he won't fall into that category." How do you know that? Contrast that to Brennan Davis, if he comes up next year and doesn't perform, you're not left with a bad contract. If he just can't cut it at the major league level then you can replace him. I'm not against all free agent signings, I just prefer to avoid those BIG free agent signings. The Stroman contract is an example of a contract I'm fine with. Sure it's $23M or so every year, which is a lot. But it's only for 3 years. The Chatwood contract of a few years ago - I was fine with that one too because it was only for 3 years. But signing someone like Judge to a 10 year $350M contract I'm not so sure of. But if Davis or PCA come up and play like we all want them to, then I'd be fine offering them a 10 year $350M contract (or longer and/or higher) because they would have done what warranted that contract at Wrigley Field. That's just my opinion on spending, contracts, and free agency. |
|
|
|
Post by fine09 on Jul 30, 2022 13:18:18 GMT -5
You have a point on A ball guys but you also are making the assumption that a team is completely built on its own minor league system & that a great A ball player can’t help unless he beats the odds & makes it to the bigs. This is probably true. I'm more of a fan of building from within than spending heavy in free agency. I think the list of players that have signed HUGE contracts with other teams in free agency and then continued to put up spectacular numbers is very small. It just seems to me that more times than not, when you sign a free agent to a big contract it often takes a season or two for that player's production to get back to what it was and by then you've lost a couple of prime years so the decline's already started. Someone mentioned signing Judge. And no doubt, on paper it looks like a great idea. But what if he doesn't perform outside of New York? You can be left with an albatross of a contract. Everybody will want to say "No, he's so good he won't fall into that category." How do you know that? Contrast that to Brennan Davis, if he comes up next year and doesn't perform, you're not left with a bad contract. If he just can't cut it at the major league level then you can replace him. I'm not against all free agent signings, I just prefer to avoid those BIG free agent signings. The Stroman contract is an example of a contract I'm fine with. Sure it's $23M or so every year, which is a lot. But it's only for 3 years. The Chatwood contract of a few years ago - I was fine with that one too because it was only for 3 years. But signing someone like Judge to a 10 year $350M contract I'm not so sure of. But if Davis or PCA come up and play like we all want them to, then I'd be fine offering them a 10 year $350M contract (or longer and/or higher) because they would have done what warranted that contract at Wrigley Field. That's just my opinion on spending, contracts, and free agency. You can’t really trade for free agents so I was meaning if the Cubs wanted let’s say Bregman from the Astros (if they were sellers) you trade them a couple shit hot A or AA kids & you have an MLB guy under contract & not an older FA signing. You still get serious value for your high rated youngsters & it won’t matter if they end up succeeding or not.. |
|
|
|
Post by Mike on Jul 30, 2022 13:37:15 GMT -5
Injuries to Alzolay + Marquez; Wieck + Heuer + Roberts + Rodriguez; and Madrigal + Amaya + Hermosillo definitely moved the goal post... makes it easy to sell off this season.
|
|
|
|
Post by batman66 on Jul 30, 2022 13:43:31 GMT -5
Injuries to Alzolay + Marquez; Wieck + Heuer + Roberts + Rodriguez; and Madrigal + Amaya + Hermosillo definitely moved the goal post... makes it easy to sell off this season. Hendricks, Stroman, Miley, Smyly were supposed to be the top 4 , they have started a combined 45 games , out of what should have been 76 at this point, Sorry man , that's going to kill any team when your top 4 who are usually pretty solid pitchers start a little over half the games you were hoping |
|
|
|
Post by Mike on Jul 30, 2022 13:44:45 GMT -5
Yeah, that too. The bullpen injuries are to be expected when the starters can't go 4 innings (hyperbole to some extent).
|
|
|
|
Post by batman66 on Aug 1, 2022 8:15:47 GMT -5
Interesting story from Wittenhymer about Rodon interview he did , Carlos seemed to be going out of his way to keep bringing up how much he and his wife and kids love Chicago and had this to say “The Cubs right now are kind of like the 2017-18 White Sox, right?” he said. “I could be wrong. I don’t watch Chicago Cubs baseball that much and don’t know the depth of the whole farm system and everything that’s going on there. But we went through a rebuild with the Chicago White Sox, and you take your lumps and you take your bruises, and guys are going to really struggle and then all of a sudden they turn into superstars.”
Kind of sounds like he might have eyes on being a Cub this winter.
It will be interesting though , if he gets traded before the deadline then there will be no possible QO stuck on him.
If he remains with SF and then opts out they'd probably offer him the QO so they get compenation.
But of course this won't happen right Fitz? The Cubs can't attract or will want to sign any top free agent .
|
|
|
|
Post by kfidd on Aug 1, 2022 8:55:51 GMT -5
Interesting story from Wittenhymer about Rodon interview he did , Carlos seemed to be going out of his way to keep bringing up how much he and his wife and kids love Chicago and had this to say “The Cubs right now are kind of like the 2017-18 White Sox, right?” he said. “I could be wrong. I don’t watch Chicago Cubs baseball that much and don’t know the depth of the whole farm system and everything that’s going on there. But we went through a rebuild with the Chicago White Sox, and you take your lumps and you take your bruises, and guys are going to really struggle and then all of a sudden they turn into superstars.” Kind of sounds like he might have eyes on being a Cub this winter. It will be interesting though , if he gets traded before the deadline then there will be no possible QO stuck on him. If he remains with SF and then opts out they'd probably offer him the QO so they get compenation. But of course this won't happen right Fitz? The Cubs can't attract or will want to sign any top free agent . I don’t think words can express how much I hate the QO system. Baseball has an issue with teams tanking and wants greater parity around the league. So how do we do that? Let’s punish the teams that sign a game changer free agent by yanking away a good early draft pick from them and giving it to the team that simply didn’t want to pay up. I understand it in theory but it’s a sucky system and annoying to me that it’s still a part of the game. |
|
|
|
Post by batman66 on Aug 1, 2022 9:03:35 GMT -5
Interesting story from Wittenhymer about Rodon interview he did , Carlos seemed to be going out of his way to keep bringing up how much he and his wife and kids love Chicago and had this to say “The Cubs right now are kind of like the 2017-18 White Sox, right?” he said. “I could be wrong. I don’t watch Chicago Cubs baseball that much and don’t know the depth of the whole farm system and everything that’s going on there. But we went through a rebuild with the Chicago White Sox, and you take your lumps and you take your bruises, and guys are going to really struggle and then all of a sudden they turn into superstars.” Kind of sounds like he might have eyes on being a Cub this winter. It will be interesting though , if he gets traded before the deadline then there will be no possible QO stuck on him. If he remains with SF and then opts out they'd probably offer him the QO so they get compenation. But of course this won't happen right Fitz? The Cubs can't attract or will want to sign any top free agent . I don’t think words can express how much I hate the QO system. Baseball has an issue with teams tanking and wants greater parity around the league. So how do we do that? Let’s punish the teams that sign a game changer free agent by yanking away a good early draft pick from them and giving it to the team that simply didn’t want to pay up. I understand it in theory but it’s a sucky system and annoying to me that it’s still a part of the game. I did not want the International draft , but I was kind of hoping it would pass just so the QO bullshit would be out of the game. I mean it doesn't affect a whole lot of players every year , but it can make a HUGE difference in who pursues them and what kind of contracts they get. It's not just losing a pick , it's losing the money that goes with it , which is dumb and a team like the Cubs who likes to go for some over slot draft picks it will affect more and becomes the bigger deterant than losing the pick itself , which for the Cubs would only be a 2nd rounder. I get why it was put in place , the Yankees used to just sign every top free agent but those days have passed. |
|
|
|
Post by fine09 on Aug 1, 2022 10:02:51 GMT -5
I don’t think words can express how much I hate the QO system. Baseball has an issue with teams tanking and wants greater parity around the league. So how do we do that? Let’s punish the teams that sign a game changer free agent by yanking away a good early draft pick from them and giving it to the team that simply didn’t want to pay up. I understand it in theory but it’s a sucky system and annoying to me that it’s still a part of the game. I did not want the International draft , but I was kind of hoping it would pass just so the QO bullshit would be out of the game. I mean it doesn't affect a whole lot of players every year , but it can make a HUGE difference in who pursues them and what kind of contracts they get. It's not just losing a pick , it's losing the money that goes with it , which is dumb and a team like the Cubs who likes to go for some over slot draft picks it will affect more and becomes the bigger deterant than losing the pick itself , which for the Cubs would only be a 2nd rounder. I get why it was put in place , the Yankees used to just sign every top free agent but those days have passed. The QO days haven’t really passed that much if you happen to be a small or mid market team. The Pirates for instance will seldom if ever be able to sign the next huge player to an extension & almost have to receive compensation when they lose them. Now being a Cub fan I wish it would go away but looking at it from the POV of the entire league I don’t see how that can fairly happen. |
|
|
|
Post by batman66 on Aug 1, 2022 10:14:21 GMT -5
I did not want the International draft , but I was kind of hoping it would pass just so the QO bullshit would be out of the game. I mean it doesn't affect a whole lot of players every year , but it can make a HUGE difference in who pursues them and what kind of contracts they get. It's not just losing a pick , it's losing the money that goes with it , which is dumb and a team like the Cubs who likes to go for some over slot draft picks it will affect more and becomes the bigger deterant than losing the pick itself , which for the Cubs would only be a 2nd rounder. I get why it was put in place , the Yankees used to just sign every top free agent but those days have passed. The QO days haven’t really passed that much if you happen to be a small or mid market team. The Pirates for instance will seldom if ever be able to sign the next huge player to an extension & almost have to receive compensation when they lose them. Now being a Cub fan I wish it would go away but looking at it from the POV of the entire league I don’t see how that can fairly happen. There are two sides of it , but I think the QO was put in place with the aspect of it being more about detering teams from signing everybody like the Yankees used to and penalize them more so than compensating ones who lose the player. I get small market teams have issues with keeping top talents long term but rewaring them with a top 50 pick is kind of just repeating the cycle all over again unless they do what the Rays do and that's trade the player once they start getting into their later arm years and gain back more young talent. |
|
|
|
Post by kfidd on Aug 1, 2022 10:15:58 GMT -5
I did not want the International draft , but I was kind of hoping it would pass just so the QO bullshit would be out of the game. I mean it doesn't affect a whole lot of players every year , but it can make a HUGE difference in who pursues them and what kind of contracts they get. It's not just losing a pick , it's losing the money that goes with it , which is dumb and a team like the Cubs who likes to go for some over slot draft picks it will affect more and becomes the bigger deterant than losing the pick itself , which for the Cubs would only be a 2nd rounder. I get why it was put in place , the Yankees used to just sign every top free agent but those days have passed. The QO days haven’t really passed that much if you happen to be a small or mid market team. The Pirates for instance will seldom if ever be able to sign the next huge player to an extension & almost have to receive compensation when they lose them. Now being a Cub fan I wish it would go away but looking at it from the POV of the entire league I don’t see how that can fairly happen. I do not have sympathy for the owners when it comes to not spending. I can be realistic and understand that a team like the Pirates won’t have the financial wiggle room that a team like the Dodgers has, but these millionaire (and in some cases billionaire) owners absolutely can choose to spend money to acquire big talent. It’s a choice. Personally I’d like to see some type of mandatory team salary floor while increasing minimums across the board. Maximums exist, why can’t minimums? Force teams to pay their players and then we can talk further about healthy parity. But when you’ve got teams with sub 30 million dollar payrolls that type of behavior shouldn’t be rewarded in my book. |
|
|
|
Post by fine09 on Aug 1, 2022 10:26:57 GMT -5
The QO days haven’t really passed that much if you happen to be a small or mid market team. The Pirates for instance will seldom if ever be able to sign the next huge player to an extension & almost have to receive compensation when they lose them. Now being a Cub fan I wish it would go away but looking at it from the POV of the entire league I don’t see how that can fairly happen. I do not have sympathy for the owners when it comes to not spending. I can be realistic and understand that a team like the Pirates won’t have the financial wiggle room that a team like the Dodgers has, but these millionaire (and in some cases billionaire) owners absolutely can choose to spend money to acquire big talent. It’s a choice. Personally I’d like to see some type of mandatory team salary floor while increasing minimums across the board. Maximums exist, why can’t minimums? Force teams to pay their players and then we can talk further about healthy parity. But when you’ve got teams with sub 30 million dollar payrolls that type of behavior shouldn’t be rewarded in my book. I would also like to see a hard floor to spending but to make it actually fair I think there should also be a hard ceiling, not the super soft ceiling that we have now where teams can go over it & are just penalized from a small amount up to a decent amount because teams that generate a ton of profit can easily afford the penalties so that goes against the theory of a deterrent. Now understand that the players union will NEVER go for a hard cap because they want the big $$ for the top 1% of the players.. |
|
|
|
Post by batman66 on Aug 1, 2022 10:27:33 GMT -5
The QO days haven’t really passed that much if you happen to be a small or mid market team. The Pirates for instance will seldom if ever be able to sign the next huge player to an extension & almost have to receive compensation when they lose them. Now being a Cub fan I wish it would go away but looking at it from the POV of the entire league I don’t see how that can fairly happen. I do not have sympathy for the owners when it comes to not spending. I can be realistic and understand that a team like the Pirates won’t have the financial wiggle room that a team like the Dodgers has, but these millionaire (and in some cases billionaire) owners absolutely can choose to spend money to acquire big talent. It’s a choice. Personally I’d like to see some type of mandatory team salary floor while increasing minimums across the board. Maximums exist, why can’t minimums? Force teams to pay their players and then we can talk further about healthy parity. But when you’ve got teams with sub 30 million dollar payrolls that type of behavior shouldn’t be rewarded in my book. I agree , obviously some owners can't compete spending wise with the ones who just spend like crazy but there should be a minumum requirement on spending and if you can't or won't meet that then sell the team . To me it's ridiculous that there are teams who's entire seasons payroll is less than the Mets are paying MadMax. In a way and I kind of brought this up in the draft thread, it's kind of unfair to some kids getting drafted that know if they are the best they are probably going to the team that was the worst and that likely often is a small market team who's often not going to keep them long or reward them with a nice contract to keep them . I mean they are still getting paid the draft slot money , but long term they might be held down through their arb years. |
|
|
|
Post by batman66 on Sept 25, 2023 9:54:52 GMT -5
I’m going 2027, maybe 2026. Now that they’re about to shed the team of the last of the remaining players (Happ & Willy), 2023 will be the start of the climb. The focus will be on bringing up young talent and signing established vets to help. This is going to be a long 4 years 😬 <<This is going to be a long 4 years 😬>> Are you glad they went into leap year mode ? |
|
|
|
Post by fine09 on Sept 25, 2023 10:26:28 GMT -5
I’m going 2027, maybe 2026. Now that they’re about to shed the team of the last of the remaining players (Happ & Willy), 2023 will be the start of the climb. The focus will be on bringing up young talent and signing established vets to help. This is going to be a long 4 years 😬 <<This is going to be a long 4 years 😬>> Are you glad they went into leap year mode ? No matter what happens from here on out we can state that the Cubs are certainly competitive this year & this is due to them “re-tooling” as opposed to re-building when they traded off the soon to be free agent “core” for outstanding value as compared to the 47th. & 80th. Pick in the next draft. It would have been a horrible business move to do that. |
|
|
|
Post by batman66 on Sept 25, 2023 11:08:30 GMT -5
<<This is going to be a long 4 years 😬>> Are you glad they went into leap year mode ? No matter what happens from here on out we can state that the Cubs are certainly competitive this year & this is due to them “re-tooling” as opposed to re-building when they traded off the soon to be free agent “core” for outstanding value as compared to the 47th. & 80th. Pick in the next draft. It would have been a horrible business move to do that. That's why I had been saying all this time it was more of a re-tool because that jump start they got on everything by making those trades was akin to 2-3 years of tanking to get high draft picks and that's why I said it was not going to be like last time and take anywhere near as long because they brought in a lot of talent through those trades that they didn't need to do what they did last time and that the signing of guys like Stroman and Suzuki was another indicator it would not be a drawn out rebuild. I mean they are back into being a contender already with very minimal major league input from players they got in those deals so far so I think re-tooling is the more proper term. So the fact they are a contender before those guys really start to help is even more encouraging and the future is looking very bright because they also have a surplus of what I label as expendable talent that can be used in trade. This winter is going to really be fun to see where they go from here. I hate to keep saying it because I already know I'm obsessive about it, but they have to sign Bellinger or it's going to be a huge step backwards. The man is closing in on 100 rbi's and he's missed around 30 games. |
|
