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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 16, 2023 15:01:10 GMT -5
No prospect should be untouchable, that's ridiculous.
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Post by batman66 on Aug 16, 2023 18:33:42 GMT -5
You are right , Q at that time was considered the # 1 get for that deadline well before that trade was made and the Cubs struck what was it 2 weeks before the deadline, that's why they paid a premium plus the cheap years of control he had. He may have not been the best talent at that deadline, but his consistency and his contract had him listed as the #1 guy. Verlander and Darvish were also traded in 2017, both of which netted lesser returns than the Sox got for Quintana. Granted Darvish was on an expiring deal, but Verlander had years left on his deal, even though he could have opted out, which he didn't. The Astros got several years out of Verlander in his latter prime for far less than the Cubs gave up. But at the time Q was considered the prize and the Astros had been trying to trade for him the previous season and were after him again , and the deal the Cubs made I believe was around 2 weeks before the deadline, and to get teams to make deals early like that and not have teams jockey for players you have to pay a premium and they were willing to. Jiminez was looked at as a great prospect , but somewhat expendable because they had Soler and Cease at that point was looking like he might end up a pen arm because when he finally got healthy it was looking like he'd never make it past 5 innings as a starter because of pitch counts piling up because of his wildness and at that point teams were still looking for starters to be guys that can go 6-7 innings. Verlander , not many teams wanted to touch his contract he was making 28 million a year and showing signs of regression , his ERA when he headed to Houston was 3.82 and lets not forget the Cubs were the team that he wanted to gp to and almost did , but the deal fell through at the last minute it was down to them or Houston. They had to give up less because he was a guy who was older and teams feared a decline and he was making 28 million , Q was younger and making only 35 million over the next 5 years which was considered a steal.
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Post by batman66 on Aug 16, 2023 18:39:27 GMT -5
No prospect should be untouchable, that's ridiculous. When you consider them a part of the next core you plan on relying on , why shouldn't they be. unless we are talking YOUNG elite guys in trade like Tatis or Soto , not a guy like Trout. especially for a 32 year old player who's played only managed to play 677 games out of their last 980 games since 2016
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 16, 2023 19:30:12 GMT -5
Like I said, no prospected should ever be considered “untouchable”.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 16, 2023 19:30:41 GMT -5
Back on Ohtani, his calculated value is set at 12/790 lol
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Post by batman66 on Aug 17, 2023 9:24:58 GMT -5
Back on Ohtani, his calculated value is set at 12/790 lol WOW ! This winter is going to be fun. I just hope he doesn't hold up the entire off season. The good thing is he's not a Boras guy , so just maybe we don't have to play the long drawn out waiting game.
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Post by fine09 on Aug 17, 2023 9:30:35 GMT -5
Back on Ohtani, his calculated value is set at 12/790 lol I'm assuming that is calculated based on his WAR? Reports I've seen by the reputable sources (if there is such a thing) is an 11 year 550 mil. which I would consider his floor at this point & you know it will container a couple of player opt out opportunities after year 3 & 4.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 17, 2023 9:47:07 GMT -5
Back on Ohtani, his calculated value is set at 12/790 lol I'm assuming that is calculated based on his WAR? Reports I've seen by the reputable sources (if there is such a thing) is an 11 year 550 mil. which I would consider his floor at this point & you know it will container a couple of player opt out opportunities after year 3 & 4. This doesn't mean someone will pay it.... what's Ohtani going to do, not play if his best offer is 10/500? Here's the details: "ESPN’s Bradford Doolittle attempted to use statistics to come up with a fair price for the two-way superstar. When combining Ohtani’s ability to get on base, hit for power, and run the bases with his ability to throw three pitches (a 4-seamer, splitter, and sweeper) at an above-average level, Doolittle calculates that Ohtani is worth a staggering $76 million per season. When broken up over the course of a 12-year contract, the would add up to be $912 million. When factoring in a projected decline in skills over the length of the contract, Doolittle shaved off $122 million for a final estimate of $789.7 million over 12 years, or over $65 million per season."
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 17, 2023 9:49:00 GMT -5
My ideal offseason.... Bellinger, Chapman 3B and Urias SP (assuming Stroman opts out).
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Post by fine09 on Aug 17, 2023 12:56:03 GMT -5
My ideal offseason.... Bellinger, Chapman 3B and Urias SP (assuming Stroman opts out). When one decent site came out with their top free agents with destination & contract they had Urias in a free fall contract wise due to his issues this year & had him somewhere around a 5 year - 125 mil deal. That's about 1/2 of what I would have guessed at the start of this year. I'm not so sure we wouldn't be better off targeting one of the other top 5 starting pitchers on the FA market. I mentioned Chapman earlier in the year but I would honestly have no problem with Candelario at their estimated 3 year 45 to 55 mil deal which will be probably 1/2 the years and $$ of Chapman. I know Chapman is by far the better defender but Jeimer has a higher average, OBP, slugging & OPS+ than Chapman & if we can save 7 million a year we can use that in the BP or wherever.. Chapman is most likely the safer bet but I put an importance on saving money where we can to plug it in somewhere else.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 17, 2023 14:23:57 GMT -5
I don't like the inconsistency of Candelario, he's fine and all, I like him. There's just more consistency with Chapman, we'll just have to see the cost differences.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 17, 2023 14:26:11 GMT -5
My idea with Chapman and Belli is, I'm sticking Chapman at 3B 100% and I'd like Belly at 1B for his duration as a Cub, assuming PCA can win the job because defensively he'll be better than Belly in CF. Then you're infield is locked in with Belly, Nico, Swanson and Chapman and boy is that a great great defensive infield.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 17, 2023 14:29:01 GMT -5
1. Nico 2B 2. Happ LF 3. Belly 1B 4. Chapman 3B 5. Swanson SS 6. Morel DH 7. Suzuki RF 8. PCA CF (he'll have to work his way up the BA and by the way I was sooooo thinking no way he's ready, but he might be in 2024) 9. Catcher
This is really solid.
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Post by batman66 on Aug 17, 2023 15:44:49 GMT -5
1. Nico 2B 2. Happ LF 3. Belly CF 4. Chapman 3B 5. Swanson SS 6. Morel DH 7. Suzuki RF 8. PCA CF (he'll have to work his way up the BA and by the way I was sooooo thinking no way he's ready, but he might be in 2024) 9. Catcher This is really solid. I've been yes and no , back and forth on Chapman all the time we've been talking about him since last winter , he really cooled down bigtime after the terrific start he had but damn , that might be the best defensive infield of all time , And the OF isn't bad either , could be one of the best defensive teams of all time.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 17, 2023 16:06:41 GMT -5
Chapman had a great July posting a .900+ OPS, the issue is, he got hit on the finger or slid funny, I forget which and he's been playing with it for a while now. It's clearly bothering him and he's missed about week now because of it. I think it happened at the end of July. I think they didn't IL him because he wanted to play through it as they're in a divisional race and hold the last WC spot.
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Post by bryzzobrist on Aug 17, 2023 16:10:47 GMT -5
Back on Ohtani, his calculated value is set at 12/790 lol According to who? I really hope no one pays more than about 60% of that.
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Post by bryzzobrist on Aug 17, 2023 16:11:29 GMT -5
Spotrac puts him at 9 yrs, $326,312,657
Seems more realistic, if not just a little on the low end.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 17, 2023 16:15:03 GMT -5
Spotrac puts him at 9 yrs, $326,312,657 He's getting far more than that, you have to value him as a hitter AND a pitcher, and the thing is, he's elite at both. So, if he was just a hitter would teams pay him 10/400 like everyone else is getting? If he's a pitcher is he getting 10/300 (Gerrit Cole). So I can see why the math is in the 10/700+ range.
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Post by bryzzobrist on Aug 17, 2023 16:24:11 GMT -5
Spotrac puts him at 9 yrs, $326,312,657 He's getting far more than that, you have to value him as a hitter AND a pitcher, and the thing is, he's elite at both. So, if he was just a hitter would teams pay him 10/400 like everyone else is getting? If he's a pitcher is he getting 10/300 (Gerrit Cole). So I can see why the math is in the 10/700+ range. If he was just a hitter, teams would not offer him 10/400
I hereby officially guesstimate Shohei's future contract to be: 10 years and 360 million
I mean, hell, I know he's Ohtani, but are we really going to break records every offseason for contracts? He's had 3 monster seasons in a row - now, if he only did that for 8 seasons in a row with no sign of slowing down and age 27 signs a deal like Mike Trout - yeah, he would get over a half bill likely. But it's 3 seasons, an injury history, and he's 29.
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Post by bryzzobrist on Aug 17, 2023 16:44:05 GMT -5
Spotrac puts him at 9 yrs, $326,312,657 He's getting far more than that, you have to value him as a hitter AND a pitcher, and the thing is, he's elite at both. So, if he was just a hitter would teams pay him 10/400 like everyone else is getting? If he's a pitcher is he getting 10/300 (Gerrit Cole). So I can see why the math is in the 10/700+ range. Who's math? Your math, based on that?
If you look at his pitching stats over the years and you think 10/300, i'm glad you arent signing the players. He has, count it, one monster season as a pitcher in his time in MLB.
You also left out that I said that number above is more realistic than your number, but maybe a little on the low end. No real need to crop.
If he signs for 700 billion or whatever number you said, I hope he goes to a division rival and cripples them.
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