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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 16, 2023 9:57:20 GMT -5
How about something waaaaaaaaay out in LF???
How about going to the Angels about Mike Trout and see if the Angels are wanting to start completely over with prospects?
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Post by foolforthecity on Aug 16, 2023 9:59:41 GMT -5
In a perfect world, Ohtani will be better than Ruth as a 2way. But I think eventually he will stop pitching and hit only. I don’t know if 1st is a possibility, but with the DH he is in the lineup every day. The ideal #3 hitter. Is that bat only worth 50-60 a year? I don’t know, but you could have 2 pretty quality players for that money, not to mention players you already have in the system.
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Post by foolforthecity on Aug 16, 2023 10:00:55 GMT -5
How about something waaaaaaaaay out in LF??? How about going to the Angels about Mike Trout and see if the Angels are wanting to start completely over with prospects? My only issue with that is durability. He seems to have missed a few games in his career. I just looked and since 2017 the most games he’s played in a season is 140.
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Post by batman66 on Aug 16, 2023 10:13:16 GMT -5
How about something waaaaaaaaay out in LF??? How about going to the Angels about Mike Trout and see if the Angels are wanting to start completely over with prospects? I might be the only person on here saying no , and I'll probably be called crazy , but it depends on what prospects. I'd love to have him become a Cub , but it would depend on the prospect package they had to give up. My issue is the guy hasn't played more than 140 games in a season since 2016 and he's now 32 with a chronic back issue. If you have a super star you need him suiting up for 145+ a year You get a great player when he does play but I think we are seeing the beginning of the end of his prime , his numbers this season compared to career average hitting .263 career .301 obp .369 career .412 slg .493 career .582 ops .862 career .994 used to steal 20-30 bags a year , 2 this season Still a damn good player , but not prime Mike Trout
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 16, 2023 10:24:39 GMT -5
Yes, Trout durability will come in to question. I don't think he's on the downside just yet, just some bad luck. So basically it'd be 7/259 plus prospects and if the Angels can bring back Ohtani maybe you can entice Suzuki to waive his no trade in the deal to go to the Angels. I think you can lighten the prospects some since you have to commit to 7/259, like keep PCA out of the deal. I'd be intrigued though. If you can get Suzuki in the deal you can bring back Belly too.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 16, 2023 10:27:24 GMT -5
Also, those interested on Juan Soto, keep in mind, he turned down 15/440 from the Nats, that's crazy.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 16, 2023 10:30:18 GMT -5
And lets just be realistic guys, the Cubs did not load up on prospects just to keep them all. They have to be open to using them for trades. We've all discussed this in previous years. We cannot be like the Chicago Bulls Luol Deng era and be afraid to unload good young prospects for established stars.
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Post by rvn11 on Aug 16, 2023 10:44:50 GMT -5
And lets just be realistic guys, the Cubs did not load up on prospects just to keep them all. They have to be open to using them for trades. We've all discussed this in previous years. We cannot be like the Chicago Bulls Luol Deng era and be afraid to unload good young prospects for established stars. I think that's the reality we'll face in the coming offseason. But what I want to see is if they pool their prospects together they don't do so at something of bargains in exchange for a need. I'm talking no more Jimenez and Cease for Quintana, Soler for 1 year of Wade Davis, or even more recently in Nelson Velazquez for Cuas. Not that Velazquez was a can't miss or Cuas isn't a solid piece, but IMO they sold low on Velazquez simply because they could as they had no spot for him, same with Soler. IF they're going to move a top prospect(s), make sure they're getting a premier player, a difference maker, in return. Canario, Caissie, even PCA could be on the block depending on what direction they decide to take. If they move on from one or more of those players I really want to see something special in return, not just 2nd or 3rd tier like Quintana was at the time.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 16, 2023 10:51:51 GMT -5
I think PCA is out, almost untouchable. But you can't be afraid to move a guy like Cassie, , Alcantara, a Ben Brown or a Triantos. The thing is, these aren't the type of prospects you get a rental for. You're not moving these guys in a deal for some low tier player batting 7th or 8th in the lineup either.
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Post by rvn11 on Aug 16, 2023 11:19:27 GMT -5
I hesitate on Caissie at the moment, just because he seems like he could be such a middle of the order beast, and seems overlooked in rankings so might not be as highly regarded as he should be. I'd rather throw in the other names, even Mervis. There are enough position players in the system that a stud pitcher should be the target. But what I think they need is a non-rental as mentioned, but not a "lesser" long term piece like Quintana was. Get an ace, TOR type guy to run alongside Steele. Easier said than done, I know. Then sign a solid 3/4 guy like Urias and you're in good shape for a couple years.
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Post by batman66 on Aug 16, 2023 11:45:57 GMT -5
And lets just be realistic guys, the Cubs did not load up on prospects just to keep them all. They have to be open to using them for trades. We've all discussed this in previous years. We cannot be like the Chicago Bulls Luol Deng era and be afraid to unload good young prospects for established stars. No doubt they will be trading quite a few prospects, that's a given , we already started to see it with the Candelario trade I don't think a lot of people expected them to be dealing a guy like Herz yet , but they did. I'm sure they'd be willing to deal even better ones for a controlable player. We already know there won't be enough room for Happ, Suzuki, PCA, Caissie, Canario , Perlaza all who should be ready at some point in 2024 and Perlaza probably is now , but there is no room for him and then there are others like Alcantara a year or so after. despite not having the corner IF future identified, there isn't going to be room for Swanson, Hoerner, Madrigal , Morel , Vazquez, Trainatos, Shaw, Rojas, Valdez, Hernandez etc And you have to deal some because of issues with losing them to rule 5 and minor league free agency and just to open space in the system which is a current issue , Caissie for example should be in AAA with PCA . We will probably see some go we really don't want to see go , but you have to deal some before they fail or fizzle out.
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Post by irishcubfan on Aug 16, 2023 11:47:45 GMT -5
And lets just be realistic guys, the Cubs did not load up on prospects just to keep them all. They have to be open to using them for trades. We've all discussed this in previous years. We cannot be like the Chicago Bulls Luol Deng era and be afraid to unload good young prospects for established stars. I think that's the reality we'll face in the coming offseason. But what I want to see is if they pool their prospects together they don't do so at something of bargains in exchange for a need. I'm talking no more Jimenez and Cease for Quintana, Soler for 1 year of Wade Davis, or even more recently in Nelson Velazquez for Cuas. Not that Velazquez was a can't miss or Cuas isn't a solid piece, but IMO they sold low on Velazquez simply because they could as they had no spot for him, same with Soler. IF they're going to move a top prospect(s), make sure they're getting a premier player, a difference maker, in return. Canario, Caissie, even PCA could be on the block depending on what direction they decide to take. If they move on from one or more of those players I really want to see something special in return, not just 2nd or 3rd tier like Quintana was at the time. Q wasn't 2nd or a 3rd tier get at that time. Q at the time was a very good and very dependable pitcher. The Cubs won the sweepstakes for him by offering the top tier prospects with high ceilings.
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Post by batman66 on Aug 16, 2023 11:48:07 GMT -5
I hesitate on Caissie at the moment, just because he seems like he could be such a middle of the order beast, and seems overlooked in rankings so might not be as highly regarded as he should be. I'd rather throw in the other names, even Mervis. There are enough position players in the system that a stud pitcher should be the target. But what I think they need is a non-rental as mentioned, but not a "lesser" long term piece like Quintana was. Get an ace, TOR type guy to run alongside Steele. Easier said than done, I know. Then sign a solid 3/4 guy like Urias and you're in good shape for a couple years. I don't trade PCA, Caissie, Horton or Ferris and maybe even put Ballesteros in there too , and Shaw is really already getting to that point , other than that , I think they have to be open to anybody else, even Alcantara because although he has that ultra high ceiling , his floor could be bust .
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Post by batman66 on Aug 16, 2023 11:50:37 GMT -5
I think that's the reality we'll face in the coming offseason. But what I want to see is if they pool their prospects together they don't do so at something of bargains in exchange for a need. I'm talking no more Jimenez and Cease for Quintana, Soler for 1 year of Wade Davis, or even more recently in Nelson Velazquez for Cuas. Not that Velazquez was a can't miss or Cuas isn't a solid piece, but IMO they sold low on Velazquez simply because they could as they had no spot for him, same with Soler. IF they're going to move a top prospect(s), make sure they're getting a premier player, a difference maker, in return. Canario, Caissie, even PCA could be on the block depending on what direction they decide to take. If they move on from one or more of those players I really want to see something special in return, not just 2nd or 3rd tier like Quintana was at the time. Q wasn't 2nd or a 3rd tier get at that time. Q at the time was a very good and very dependable pitcher. The Cubs won the sweepstakes for him by offering the top tier prospects with high ceilings. You are right , Q at that time was considered the # 1 get for that deadline well before that trade was made and the Cubs struck what was it 2 weeks before the deadline, that's why they paid a premium plus the cheap years of control he had. He may have not been the best talent at that deadline, but his consistency and his contract had him listed as the #1 guy.
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Post by irishcubfan on Aug 16, 2023 11:52:02 GMT -5
How about something waaaaaaaaay out in LF??? How about going to the Angels about Mike Trout and see if the Angels are wanting to start completely over with prospects? I might be the only person on here saying no , and I'll probably be called crazy , but it depends on what prospects. I'd love to have him become a Cub , but it would depend on the prospect package they had to give up. My issue is the guy hasn't played more than 140 games in a season since 2016 and he's now 32 with a chronic back issue. If you have a super star you need him suiting up for 145+ a year You get a great player when he does play but I think we are seeing the beginning of the end of his prime , his numbers this season compared to career average hitting .263 career .301 obp .369 career .412 slg .493 career .582 ops .862 career .994 used to steal 20-30 bags a year , 2 this season Still a damn good player , but not prime Mike Trout No way no how should the Cubs trade for Trout, he is a shell of his former self and would have to pay premium for his name/generational icon status.
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Post by rvn11 on Aug 16, 2023 11:58:47 GMT -5
I think that's the reality we'll face in the coming offseason. But what I want to see is if they pool their prospects together they don't do so at something of bargains in exchange for a need. I'm talking no more Jimenez and Cease for Quintana, Soler for 1 year of Wade Davis, or even more recently in Nelson Velazquez for Cuas. Not that Velazquez was a can't miss or Cuas isn't a solid piece, but IMO they sold low on Velazquez simply because they could as they had no spot for him, same with Soler. IF they're going to move a top prospect(s), make sure they're getting a premier player, a difference maker, in return. Canario, Caissie, even PCA could be on the block depending on what direction they decide to take. If they move on from one or more of those players I really want to see something special in return, not just 2nd or 3rd tier like Quintana was at the time. Q wasn't 2nd or a 3rd tier get at that time. Q at the time was a very good and very dependable pitcher. The Cubs won the sweepstakes for him by offering the top tier prospects with high ceilings. Q was very good but never been great or an established ace. The front office, IMO, got to thinking they could take him from a decent pitcher to a great one, with locked up years. In the process they overlooked the fact that in 2017 he got off to an awful start, which eventually stabilized a little but he never materialized into what they had hoped for. And they paid for, IMO, what they hoped he'd become. He kind of became what he was all along, and at the cost of the 2 top prospects in the organization at the time.
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Post by rvn11 on Aug 16, 2023 12:01:16 GMT -5
Q wasn't 2nd or a 3rd tier get at that time. Q at the time was a very good and very dependable pitcher. The Cubs won the sweepstakes for him by offering the top tier prospects with high ceilings. You are right , Q at that time was considered the # 1 get for that deadline well before that trade was made and the Cubs struck what was it 2 weeks before the deadline, that's why they paid a premium plus the cheap years of control he had. He may have not been the best talent at that deadline, but his consistency and his contract had him listed as the #1 guy. Verlander and Darvish were also traded in 2017, both of which netted lesser returns than the Sox got for Quintana. Granted Darvish was on an expiring deal, but Verlander had years left on his deal, even though he could have opted out, which he didn't. The Astros got several years out of Verlander in his latter prime for far less than the Cubs gave up.
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Post by bryzzobrist on Aug 16, 2023 12:21:09 GMT -5
I think that's the reality we'll face in the coming offseason. But what I want to see is if they pool their prospects together they don't do so at something of bargains in exchange for a need. I'm talking no more Jimenez and Cease for Quintana, Soler for 1 year of Wade Davis, or even more recently in Nelson Velazquez for Cuas. Not that Velazquez was a can't miss or Cuas isn't a solid piece, but IMO they sold low on Velazquez simply because they could as they had no spot for him, same with Soler. IF they're going to move a top prospect(s), make sure they're getting a premier player, a difference maker, in return. Canario, Caissie, even PCA could be on the block depending on what direction they decide to take. If they move on from one or more of those players I really want to see something special in return, not just 2nd or 3rd tier like Quintana was at the time. Q wasn't 2nd or a 3rd tier get at that time. Q at the time was a very good and very dependable pitcher. The Cubs won the sweepstakes for him by offering the top tier prospects with high ceilings. I remember Q was the "most consistent pitcher in baseball" at the time as well.
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Post by TheChico on Aug 16, 2023 13:53:12 GMT -5
How about something waaaaaaaaay out in LF??? How about going to the Angels about Mike Trout and see if the Angels are wanting to start completely over with prospects? Love some Trout, but the injury concern just keeps being an issue and only getting older. Bellinger is younger, more durable and actually cheaper than Trout contract AAV wise and will also cost prospects too. I cannot believe the day would come that I would take a pass on Trout for another player but time flies I guess.
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Post by TheChico on Aug 16, 2023 14:09:53 GMT -5
And lets just be realistic guys, the Cubs did not load up on prospects just to keep them all. They have to be open to using them for trades. We've all discussed this in previous years. We cannot be like the Chicago Bulls Luol Deng era and be afraid to unload good young prospects for established stars. No doubt they will be trading quite a few prospects, that's a given , we already started to see it with the Candelario trade I don't think a lot of people expected them to be dealing a guy like Herz yet , but they did. I'm sure they'd be willing to deal even better ones for a controlable player. We already know there won't be enough room for Happ, Suzuki, PCA, Caissie, Canario , Perlaza all who should be ready at some point in 2024 and Perlaza probably is now , but there is no room for him and then there are others like Alcantara a year or so after. despite not having the corner IF future identified, there isn't going to be room for Swanson, Hoerner, Madrigal , Morel , Vazquez, Trainatos, Shaw, Rojas, Valdez, Hernandez etc And you have to deal some because of issues with losing them to rule 5 and minor league free agency and just to open space in the system which is a current issue , Caissie for example should be in AAA with PCA . We will probably see some go we really don't want to see go , but you have to deal some before they fail or fizzle out. YEP!! I think the untouchables are PCA, Horton, Ferris, Wicks and Brown but will be open to move others in trades for team needs especially if they bring back Bellinger.
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