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Post by irishcubfan on Jun 14, 2023 15:39:58 GMT -5
I don't think teams will line up to give good prospects for Bellinger. He already has a knee issue AND you only get him half a season. I also don't think Wisdom has as much trade value as you think. The Cubs aren't the only team with guys with an OPS+ around 100 that can hit HRs. We're reaching here if we think anyone on the roster nets a good return outside of Stroman. I don’t think I’ve ever suggested Wisdom would net a good return. I did say recently that maybe the Cubs should contact the Mets and dangle one of Wisdom/Mancini for some 1B depth while Alonso is out, but I was under no illusion the return would be worth much. Sometimes it’s more about freeing up the roster spot than the return itself. And I think we need to establish what is a good return for certain players. A good return doesn’t have to be a top 50 or top 100 prospect. Right now who could be valuable trade assets on this team? Minor leagues aside, I’d suggest Stroman, Bellinger, Gomes, Merryweather, and Leiter Jr are the standouts. That doesn’t mean they are all netting top prospects, but it’s often not about that, it’s about evaluation. Look at the David Robertson for Ben Brown trade. Brown was the Phillies 26th ranked prospect at the time. Now he’s possibly our best pitching prospect who has been fast tracked and could make an impact out of the bullpen any time now. Cross Gomes off of the list, he won't be traded if Ross is the manager of the team. With exception of Stroman, all of the Cubs trade able players will net a toolsy, raw or live armed single A or lower player. Nothing wrong with it as all prospects are essentially lottery tickets, almost all bust. People will be disappointed with the return for Bellinger. Bellinger hasn't hit consistently well for a long time and teams are not going to buy the hot streak to start the year over the years of not being good.
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Post by kfidd on Jun 14, 2023 16:02:23 GMT -5
Cross Gomes off of the list, he won't be traded if Ross is the manager of the team. With exception of Stroman, all of the Cubs trade able players will net a toolsy, raw or live armed single A or lower player. Nothing wrong with it as all prospects are essentially lottery tickets, almost all bust. People will be disappointed with the return for Bellinger. Bellinger hasn't hit consistently well for a long time and teams are not going to buy the hot streak to start the year over the years of not being good. I agree that this is all most likely the case. Gomes in particular would likely require an overpay from someone as he just seems like the perfect pairing/mentor with Amaya assuming everything stays on track. The more likely scenario I’d hope for is they try and pass Barnhart off on someone but end up cutting him instead, whether after the deadline or during the off-season.
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Post by Mike on Jun 14, 2023 16:23:45 GMT -5
Wouldn't surprise me if Stroman was paired with Barnhart (like Darvish/Caratini).
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Post by irishcubfan on Jun 14, 2023 16:24:01 GMT -5
Cross Gomes off of the list, he won't be traded if Ross is the manager of the team. With exception of Stroman, all of the Cubs trade able players will net a toolsy, raw or live armed single A or lower player. Nothing wrong with it as all prospects are essentially lottery tickets, almost all bust. People will be disappointed with the return for Bellinger. Bellinger hasn't hit consistently well for a long time and teams are not going to buy the hot streak to start the year over the years of not being good. I agree that this is all most likely the case. Gomes in particular would likely require an overpay from someone as he just seems like the perfect pairing/mentor with Amaya assuming everything stays on track. The more likely scenario I’d hope for is they try and pass Barnhart off on someone but end up cutting him instead, whether after the deadline or during the off-season. Barnhardt is a likely DFA if Amaya stays healthy. Will latch on to a catcher needy team as a back up and than maybe over seas or invite to ST next year. May be viewed as a poor man's Maldonado type. I may be in the minority here but think the Cubs should trade Stroman sooner rather than later. First week of July or so. A couple of more starts may equal a higher return.
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Post by holycow23 on Jun 14, 2023 16:40:55 GMT -5
they signed Luke Voigt yesterday, not sure how that will work out for them though. They also have Vientos who is a solid prospect who can play 1b but seem a bit reluctant to play him. I wonder if the Mets be willing to move Vientos in a trade, I know he has his flaws but the dude has massive power and a good gamble for the Cubs to take. Mets need another bat and could add Bellinger and a bullpen arm like MerryWeather to make it happen? Wasn't Vientos a trade target of the cubs last offseason? Was Contreras offered and the mets said no.
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Post by kfidd on Jun 14, 2023 16:41:41 GMT -5
Barnhardt is a likely DFA if Amaya stays healthy. Will latch on to a catcher needy team as a back up and than maybe over seas or invite to ST next year. May be viewed as a poor man's Maldonado type. I may be in the minority here but think the Cubs should trade Stroman sooner rather than later. First week of July or so. A couple of more starts may equal a higher return. I agree that if they decide to trade Stroman the sooner the better. He’s pitched very consistently and well, he’s healthy, and any acquiring team would get another ~5-6 starts out of him. I get the idea of waiting until the deadline when someone might get antsy and overpay but that also comes with its own risks. Players can get injured, or they can regress. I sometimes wonder if the Cubs had made Contreras available in June last season what the return might have been. But then the wheels completely fell off and he had a horrible July, possibly dissuading teams from pulling the trigger.
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Post by cfin on Jun 14, 2023 16:44:12 GMT -5
Call me crazy, but I would look to see if the Cubs can unload Happ and/or Suzuki at the trade deadline. They'll have to eat some salary, but I don't think trading Stroman solves anything.
The rotation has been the one strong spot for the Cubs. If you want to compete next year, then you need a strong rotation.
The bullpen has been a crapshoot, but it always is. I have no problem trading any of the arms in the bullpen - because the bullpen will be rebuilt in the offseason, it always is (and is probably smart to do so).
The main issue with this team is the offense, and namely the lack of middle of the order hitters - and that's almost squarely on Happ and Suzuki. I don't have an issue trading any of the other offensive players other than Hoerner, Morel, Swanson, and I guess Mervis. The offense needs to be rebuilt and unloading Happ and/or Suzuki helps to create room to do that. Unloading Happ/Suzuki makes (re)signing Bellinger more doable, if they want to do that. The offense needs at least 2 thumpers in the middle of the lineup, Happ and Suzuki aren't it. I'm not going to pretend to know who those thumpers might be, but unloading Happ and Suzuki gives you two on field positions to do that.
Take the current rotation and replace the offense with a lineup that can drive in runs and this team looks a lot different in the standings.
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Post by TheChico on Jun 14, 2023 17:59:32 GMT -5
I wonder if the Mets be willing to move Vientos in a trade, I know he has his flaws but the dude has massive power and a good gamble for the Cubs to take. Mets need another bat and could add Bellinger and a bullpen arm like MerryWeather to make it happen? Wasn't Vientos a trade target of the cubs last offseason? Was Contreras offered and the mets said no. I don't know, but Bellinger could hold more value as he is a elite defender in CF (if Healthy) and if his bat continues the same path before injury he should net something decent. It is also a year later and does not appear the Mets are comfortable letting Vientos play to get regular ABs and might prefer a veteran.
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Post by holycow23 on Jun 14, 2023 18:24:47 GMT -5
Wasn't Vientos a trade target of the cubs last offseason? Was Contreras offered and the mets said no. I don't know, but Bellinger could hold more value as he is a elite defender in CF (if Healthy) and if his bat continues the same path before injury he should net something decent. It is also a year later and does not appear the Mets are comfortable letting Vientos play to get regular ABs and might prefer a veteran. Agree. Was just trying to refresh my memory. So maybe he is on the cubs radar if the mets are more willing to part with him this season.
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Post by lu13cubbie on Jun 14, 2023 18:31:55 GMT -5
I miss having the waiver wire trades. Seems that there was more trading at the July deadline then. And sometimes the trades where sooner. With the waiver wire trades you could always try and counter what your competition did earlier.
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Post by Mike on Jun 14, 2023 18:52:52 GMT -5
Happ, Swanson and Suzuki have NTC.
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Post by batman66 on Jun 14, 2023 18:54:07 GMT -5
I wonder if the Mets be willing to move Vientos in a trade, I know he has his flaws but the dude has massive power and a good gamble for the Cubs to take. Mets need another bat and could add Bellinger and a bullpen arm like MerryWeather to make it happen? Wasn't Vientos a trade target of the cubs last offseason? Was Contreras offered and the mets said no. Cubs have wanted Baty in any deal with the Mets , the Baez deal they wanted Baty and were turned down and ended up with PCA and when it was rumored to package Willy with Robertson they wanted Baty. Vientos was one of the names being mentioned in rumors with Contreras along with Mauricio and some pitchers but I'm not sure if the Cubs were actually targeting him or not but the Mets were reluctant to trade any of their top prospects.
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Post by thisbuds4u on Jun 14, 2023 18:59:09 GMT -5
Kyle Hendricks is another player who could be dealt. He has a club option which allows the team to keep him for another year.
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Post by bryzzobrist on Jun 15, 2023 2:11:25 GMT -5
4.5 games back Trade deadline is august 1st We got time and we'll be playing against division rivals pirates and brewers again soon.
After we decide to become buyers 😜 i request a closer first and a dh second.
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Post by kfidd on Jun 15, 2023 7:21:33 GMT -5
4.5 games back Trade deadline is august 1st We got time and we'll be playing against division rivals pirates and brewers again soon. After we decide to become buyers 😜 i request a closer first and a dh second. There is some reason for optimism here, as while the Cubs have sucked majorly for a long time now we haven’t had many cracks against division foes of late and I think most of us see this team as underperforming. Starting with this series we have 6 against Pittsburgh, 4 Milwaukee, 10 St Louis, and 1 Cincinnati for the remainder of June/July. My expectations remain tempered as we’ve seen this time and time again this season: look good for two games and then lay an egg in the finale. Hopefully they can avoid that disappointment tonight, finish the sweep, and then pull off a miracle against a roaring Baltimore team. But optimism there is because they’ve done what they needed to yesterday and the day before. Just gotta keep it up.
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Post by kfidd on Jun 15, 2023 8:07:14 GMT -5
I’ll also play devil’s advocate for a moment here and take the opposite stance, don’t sell. Go on a nice little run here angainst division opponents and build some momentum heading into July. Bellinger comes back and looks like April Bellinger after a 1-2 weeks windup period. The pen finds reinforcements in Heuer next month and perhaps Brown/others after the deadline. This sets up for something that I just now remembered I placed a lot of value in during the off-season, which is showing that this organization has turned a corner and is ready to win as we enter this next big free agent cycle. Whether anyone thinks the Cubs will go there or not is irrelevant, guys like Ohtani, Urias, Nola, Stroman, could be much more interested in joining a team ready to win as opposed to flop around for another year seeking its identity.
I would still explore the trade market in a big way this deadline period as assessing the value or certain players could present options that make sense. For instance, I would still do just about anything in order to acquire a big heavy bat at 3rd base before we roll into August because that is a major need going forward that doesn’t look likely to be figured out either internally or in this next free agency. But winning is important, gotta show any interested players that the Cubs are turning that corner and we are ready to win if they come here.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jun 15, 2023 9:13:00 GMT -5
I don't think teams will line up to give good prospects for Bellinger. He already has a knee issue AND you only get him half a season. I also don't think Wisdom has as much trade value as you think. The Cubs aren't the only team with guys with an OPS+ around 100 that can hit HRs. We're reaching here if we think anyone on the roster nets a good return outside of Stroman. I don’t think I’ve ever suggested Wisdom would net a good return. I did say recently that maybe the Cubs should contact the Mets and dangle one of Wisdom/Mancini for some 1B depth while Alonso is out, but I was under no illusion the return would be worth much. Sometimes it’s more about freeing up the roster spot than the return itself. And I think we need to establish what is a good return for certain players. A good return doesn’t have to be a top 50 or top 100 prospect. Right now who could be valuable trade assets on this team? Minor leagues aside, I’d suggest Stroman, Bellinger, Gomes, Merryweather, and Leiter Jr are the standouts. That doesn’t mean they are all netting top prospects, but it’s often not about that, it’s about evaluation. Look at the David Robertson for Ben Brown trade. Brown was the Phillies 26th ranked prospect at the time. Now he’s possibly our best pitching prospect who has been fast tracked and could make an impact out of the bullpen any time now. You're specifically mentioning Baty and Vientos, 2 guys the Mets are very high on. There's no way the Mets are trading either one of them, let alone for anything the Cubs can offer. If anything, as the other poster mentioned, you're getting lower level raw high ceiling guys in A or lower for Belly. I don't think you're getting anything for Wisdom.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jun 15, 2023 9:19:07 GMT -5
Call me crazy, but I would look to see if the Cubs can unload Happ and/or Suzuki at the trade deadline. They'll have to eat some salary, but I don't think trading Stroman solves anything. The rotation has been the one strong spot for the Cubs. If you want to compete next year, then you need a strong rotation. The bullpen has been a crapshoot, but it always is. I have no problem trading any of the arms in the bullpen - because the bullpen will be rebuilt in the offseason, it always is (and is probably smart to do so). The main issue with this team is the offense, and namely the lack of middle of the order hitters - and that's almost squarely on Happ and Suzuki. I don't have an issue trading any of the other offensive players other than Hoerner, Morel, Swanson, and I guess Mervis. The offense needs to be rebuilt and unloading Happ and/or Suzuki helps to create room to do that. Unloading Happ/Suzuki makes (re)signing Bellinger more doable, if they want to do that. The offense needs at least 2 thumpers in the middle of the lineup, Happ and Suzuki aren't it. I'm not going to pretend to know who those thumpers might be, but unloading Happ and Suzuki gives you two on field positions to do that. Take the current rotation and replace the offense with a lineup that can drive in runs and this team looks a lot different in the standings. The issue is, without an extension, Stroman is going to walk. And it doesn't bother me so much that he said they tried to get the Cubs to talk and it didn't work, what bothers me is his comments after that about not letting the Cubs set the narrative and pit against the Cubs as if he's the bad guy. Where does that come from? Something has to have upset him, other than the non-extension talks. Either way I think Stroman is gone if the Cubs aren't willing to talk during the season. Suzuki has a full NTC, not impossible, but would be difficult. I'd absolutely explore moving Suzuki, but I'm not sure a team wants him right now. As for Happ, I'm not trading him yet. I think this is a scenario where IMO it looks really bad to extend him then trade him in the same season. The issue IMO is that the Cubs didn't address the big bat in the middle of the lineup issue the last 2 offseasons.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jun 15, 2023 9:22:34 GMT -5
Wasn't Vientos a trade target of the cubs last offseason? Was Contreras offered and the mets said no. I don't know, but Bellinger could hold more value as he is a elite defender in CF (if Healthy) and if his bat continues the same path before injury he should net something decent. It is also a year later and does not appear the Mets are comfortable letting Vientos play to get regular ABs and might prefer a veteran. The Mets aren't going to give up on Vientos any time soon. He's still very young and kills it in the lower levels. Plus, since he's not really a good defender, that DH spot opens up for the Mets in 2024, i'd expect him to get a full shot at it.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jun 15, 2023 9:25:19 GMT -5
Kyle Hendricks is another player who could be dealt. He has a club option which allows the team to keep him for another year. At 16 million next season, I don't see the Cubs trading him. That's a good deal for Kyle and he's a very good mentor for the young guys. I'd be shocked if he's traded.
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