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Post by batman66 on Jul 11, 2023 13:03:31 GMT -5
...Hell , even Baez who was drafted in 2011 wasn't up until 2014 I'm probably in the minority here but I always thought Baez was a bit rushed. It seemed like at every level, he would only stay long enough to enjoy the beginnings of success and then they'd move him up only to have him struggle all over again. He never got the chance to work on the things he really needed to work on. Not that it would have changed anything with chasing pitches but it was almost as if he was rewarded for it instead of correcting it. They said they did it on purpose because they wanted him to experience failure to humble him a bit. 2011 after signing late he only got into 5 games that season by 2013 he was crushing minor league pitching between A and AA he hit 34 doubles 37 homers and drove in 111 runs with a .920 ops so there also wasn' t much of a point in not pushing him through and at some point I guess they just knew there was always going to be the swing and miss to his game .
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Post by batman66 on Jul 11, 2023 13:04:32 GMT -5
I'm probably in the minority here but I always thought Baez was a bit rushed. It seemed like at every level, he would only stay long enough to enjoy the beginnings of success and then they'd move him up only to have him struggle all over again. He never got the chance to work on the things he really needed to work on. Not that it would have changed anything with chasing pitches but it was almost as if he was rewarded for it instead of correcting it. I thought the way they handled Baez was actually perfect and he would not succeed in the majors without it. Baez never lacked confidence and the only way to get him to realize he needed to make some serious adjustments is to have him face failure straight up to get him to realize that he needed to make some serious changes. Cubs called him up in 2014 knowing Baez was going to fail badly but that was the plan all along and it worked. Yep, and I'm pretty sure Theo flat out said that later.
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Post by batman66 on Jul 11, 2023 15:34:16 GMT -5
all done , I count only 3 high school kids , I like it . 11 326 --
Zyhir Hope Colonial Forge HS (VA) USA OF L/L HS SR -- 6' 0" 193lbs DOB:01/19/05 -- 12 356 --
Carter Trice NC State (NC) USA 2B R/R 4YR JR -- 6' 0" 200lbs DOB:08/23/02 -- 13 386 --
Sam Armstrong Old Dominion (VA) USA P R/R 4YR SR -- 6' 2" 245lbs DOB:09/26/00 -- 14 416 --
Grayson Moore Vanderbilt (TN) USA P S/R 4YR JR -- 6' 3" 215lbs DOB:07/09/01 -- 15 446 --
Ty Johnson Ball State (IN) USA P R/R 4YR JR -- 6' 6" 205lbs DOB:09/25/01 -- 16 476 --
Daniel Brown Campbell University (NC) USA P L/L 4YR SR -- 6' 3" 200lbs DOB:10/22/02 -- 17 506 --
Ethan Flanagan UCLA (CA) USA P L/L 4YR SO -- 6' 3" 205lbs DOB:06/05/02
18
536
-- Brian Kalmer
Gonzaga (WA)
USA
3B
R/R
4YR SR
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6' 2" 215lbs
DOB:08/17/00
19
566
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Nick Dean
Maryland (MD)
USA
P
R/R
4YR SR
--
6' 3" 180lbs
DOB:12/26/00
--
20
596
--
Drew Bowser
Stanford (CA)
USA
3B
R/R
4YR JR
--
6' 4" 226lbs
DOB:10/02/01
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Post by Mike on Jul 11, 2023 15:56:03 GMT -5
...and the HS guys are "more likely" to sign than go to college, supposedly.
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Post by Clark Street on Jul 11, 2023 16:16:44 GMT -5
In the final 8 rounds, the Cubs chose 6 pitchers.
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Post by batman66 on Jul 11, 2023 17:54:07 GMT -5
Breakdown
Total pitchers 9
Position players 11
college 17
High school 3
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Post by bryzzobrist on Jul 11, 2023 22:20:25 GMT -5
Dob 01/19/05 😳 Some of these kids might not have even born when we were on the old board
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Post by batman66 on Jul 12, 2023 7:28:15 GMT -5
Dob 01/19/05 😳 Some of these kids might not have even born when we were on the old board Thanks for making me feel even older than I do , lol.
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Post by lajoiesghost on Jul 12, 2023 8:31:29 GMT -5
I thought the way they handled Baez was actually perfect and he would not succeed in the majors without it. Baez never lacked confidence and the only way to get him to realize he needed to make some serious adjustments is to have him face failure straight up to get him to realize that he needed to make some serious changes. Cubs called him up in 2014 knowing Baez was going to fail badly but that was the plan all along and it worked. Yep, and I'm pretty sure Theo flat out said that later. I didn't hear that, but if Theo said it, then I'm not imagining it and have slightly more confidence in the memory of my 64 year old brain. I just recall thinking a couple times that I wished they would have let him enjoy some sustained success instead of bumping him up as soon as he got hot. Like I said, I'm probably in the minority.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 12, 2023 10:40:23 GMT -5
I'm probably in the minority here but I always thought Baez was a bit rushed. It seemed like at every level, he would only stay long enough to enjoy the beginnings of success and then they'd move him up only to have him struggle all over again. He never got the chance to work on the things he really needed to work on. Not that it would have changed anything with chasing pitches but it was almost as if he was rewarded for it instead of correcting it. They said they did it on purpose because they wanted him to experience failure to humble him a bit. 2011 after signing late he only got into 5 games that season by 2013 he was crushing minor league pitching between A and AA he hit 34 doubles 37 homers and drove in 111 runs with a .920 ops so there also wasn' t much of a point in not pushing him through and at some point I guess they just knew there was always going to be the swing and miss to his game . To humble him a bit? What does that mean? I'd like to see who said that unless you're just making it up. Baez was progressing fine and got called up at age 21. The next season at 22 he absolutely crushed the AFL and AAA while playing amazing defense before he was ready to stick in the MLB. Baez played in something like 300 minor league games with over 1,100 PA's before his first call up. I don't think he was rushed at all.
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Post by batman66 on Jul 12, 2023 10:52:55 GMT -5
They said they did it on purpose because they wanted him to experience failure to humble him a bit. 2011 after signing late he only got into 5 games that season by 2013 he was crushing minor league pitching between A and AA he hit 34 doubles 37 homers and drove in 111 runs with a .920 ops so there also wasn' t much of a point in not pushing him through and at some point I guess they just knew there was always going to be the swing and miss to his game . To humble him a bit? What does that mean? I'd like to see who said that unless you're just making it up. Baez was progressing fine and got called up at age 21. The next season at 22 he absolutely crushed the AFL and AAA while playing amazing defense before he was ready to stick in the MLB. Baez played in something like 300 minor league games with over 1,100 PA's before his first call up. I don't think he was rushed at all. He Theo said they knew he wasn't ready but they wanted him to experience failure and learn from it because he never has . Maybe he did not use the word humble I don't recall for sure if he did , but we all know Baez was a bit cocky and all. Baez first season up he hit .169 with a .227 obp in 229 pa's and struck out 95 of those 229 pa's I'd spend time to find it but I know you'll just ignore it if I do like you always do , so try google or bing yourself .
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 12, 2023 10:58:40 GMT -5
To humble him a bit? What does that mean? I'd like to see who said that unless you're just making it up. Baez was progressing fine and got called up at age 21. The next season at 22 he absolutely crushed the AFL and AAA while playing amazing defense before he was ready to stick in the MLB. Baez played in something like 300 minor league games with over 1,100 PA's before his first call up. I don't think he was rushed at all. He Theo said they knew he wasn't ready but they wanted him to experience failure and learn from it because he never has . Maybe he did not use the word humble I don't recall for sure if he did , but we all know Baez was a bit cocky and all. Baez first season up he hit .169 with a .227 obp in 229 pa's and struck out 95 of those 229 pa's I'd spend time to find it but I know you'll just ignore it if I do like you always do , so try google or bing yourself . I get what they were doing, similar to what they did to Morel. I doubt Theo specifically said they tried to humble him because he was cocky as you are insinuating.
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Post by batman66 on Jul 12, 2023 11:06:19 GMT -5
He Theo said they knew he wasn't ready but they wanted him to experience failure and learn from it because he never has . Maybe he did not use the word humble I don't recall for sure if he did , but we all know Baez was a bit cocky and all. Baez first season up he hit .169 with a .227 obp in 229 pa's and struck out 95 of those 229 pa's I'd spend time to find it but I know you'll just ignore it if I do like you always do , so try google or bing yourself . I get what they were doing, similar to what they did to Morel. I doubt Theo specifically said they tried to humble him because he was cocky as you are insinuating. Maybe he did not say that to the media , but I know for sure he said they wanted him to experience failure and learn from it , and I'm fairly certain the humble/ cockiness part was no doubt was an underlying aspect of it .
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Post by TheChico on Jul 12, 2023 15:45:18 GMT -5
He Theo said they knew he wasn't ready but they wanted him to experience failure and learn from it because he never has . Maybe he did not use the word humble I don't recall for sure if he did , but we all know Baez was a bit cocky and all. Baez first season up he hit .169 with a .227 obp in 229 pa's and struck out 95 of those 229 pa's I'd spend time to find it but I know you'll just ignore it if I do like you always do , so try google or bing yourself . I get what they were doing, similar to what they did to Morel. I doubt Theo specifically said they tried to humble him because he was cocky as you are insinuating. Good Article from 2015 that discussed 2014 callup , Theo never said Javy was Cocky and needed to be humbled but it was more implied (maybe more media driven) and this is no knock on Javy, he was just 21 years old and he had lighting quick bat speed that can generate massive power and minors league pitching did not really show much of a challenge for him. If I was Javy and doing what he was doing with those abilities in the minors how could not be a little cocky? www.cubsinsider.com/2015/01/06/cubs-promote-javier-baez-fail/PCA could be treated similar fashion, it will not as harsh as Javy though
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Post by Mike on Jul 12, 2023 16:13:47 GMT -5
We really don't know the day-to-day stuff that goes on in the minors, FO just has to trust the coaches and the feedback they're getting. From a fan perspective, Morel seems grateful and plays like he wants to contribute to the team, whereas Javy wanted the flash and the big stats. Ultimately, if you're posting a 1.000+ OPS among competition that's at best, .800-.900, you gotta promote...the knock on young Javy was the 22+ errors (I wanna say mostly from throwing), that's why he was penciled into the lineup with Addy and Zobrist.
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Post by batman66 on Jul 12, 2023 18:48:06 GMT -5
I get what they were doing, similar to what they did to Morel. I doubt Theo specifically said they tried to humble him because he was cocky as you are insinuating. Good Article from 2015 that discussed 2014 callup , Theo never said Javy was Cocky and needed to be humbled but it was more implied (maybe more media driven) and this is no knock on Javy, he was just 21 years old and he had lighting quick bat speed that can generate massive power and minors league pitching did not really show much of a challenge for him. If I was Javy and doing what he was doing with those abilities in the minors how could not be a little cocky? www.cubsinsider.com/2015/01/06/cubs-promote-javier-baez-fail/PCA could be treated similar fashion, it will not as harsh as Javy though Theo may not have said the word humble himself , but that indeed was the general perception of why he was brought up early . From that article,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, The Cubs knew what they were doing by promoting Baez earlier then they may have initially planned. Did they set him up to fail? Not really. They wanted Baez to succeed in the long run, but they also knew full well that he would receive a rude awaking from MLB pitchers. In talking with a scout recently, the belief around some league circles is that the Cubs organization had a purpose in calling Baez up to watch him fail with the hope that it would humble him into understanding the kind of work he still needs to do to be a success at the major-league level. They wanted to break him down a little, if you will; Baez definitely has a stubborn streak. Epstein was pretty up-front with beat reporters in letting them know he wanted the kid to see for himself what it’s really like in the big leagues.
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Post by batman66 on Jul 12, 2023 19:53:14 GMT -5
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Post by batman66 on Jul 12, 2023 20:25:01 GMT -5
11th round pick Zyhir Hope. OF. Colonial Forge HS (VA). 6’0”, 193. L/L. DOB: 01/19/05 will forgo his commitment to UNC and will sign with the Cubs.
<<Zyhir Hope is the real prize on Day 3, Hope is a high school kid with 80 (elite) speed and a plus glove and arm. His high school played him mostly in right, but most scouts see him as a plus glove in center. He’s also pretty strong and can drive the ball with at least average potential major league power. The reason why he was still on the board in the 11th round—other than being a tough sign—is that he has a lot of swing-and-miss in his game. He needs to be much more selective at the plate. On top of that, he’s struggled in some events where he faced better stuff. But Hope is young and there is some massive upside here. Hope fits right in with the Cubs draft strategy.
Hope also pitched in high school, just in case that hitting and defense thing doesn’t work out for him.
Hope was ranked as the 276th-best player in the draft according to Baseball America.
As I mentioned, Hope was expected to be a tough sign but he’s already told his local paper that he intends to sign with the Cubs. The Cubs doubtlessly knew what his bonus demands were (he had a private workout at Pelicans Park) and both sides believe that they will come to an agreement. >>
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Post by kfidd on Jul 12, 2023 21:39:15 GMT -5
11th round pick Zyhir Hope. OF. Colonial Forge HS (VA). 6’0”, 193. L/L. DOB: 01/19/05 will forgo his commitment to UNC and will sign with the Cubs. <<Zyhir Hope is the real prize on Day 3, Hope is a high school kid with 80 (elite) speed and a plus glove and arm. His high school played him mostly in right, but most scouts see him as a plus glove in center. He’s also pretty strong and can drive the ball with at least average potential major league power. The reason why he was still on the board in the 11th round—other than being a tough sign—is that he has a lot of swing-and-miss in his game. He needs to be much more selective at the plate. On top of that, he’s struggled in some events where he faced better stuff. But Hope is young and there is some massive upside here. Hope fits right in with the Cubs draft strategy. Hope also pitched in high school, just in case that hitting and defense thing doesn’t work out for him. Hope was ranked as the 276th-best player in the draft according to Baseball America. As I mentioned, Hope was expected to be a tough sign but he’s already told his local paper that he intends to sign with the Cubs. The Cubs doubtlessly knew what his bonus demands were (he had a private workout at Pelicans Park) and both sides believe that they will come to an agreement. >> I like the idea of a future Cubs outfielder roaming the grass with the last name “Hope” on his back. Me likey.
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Post by lajoiesghost on Jul 13, 2023 7:49:04 GMT -5
11th round pick Zyhir Hope. OF. Colonial Forge HS (VA). 6’0”, 193. L/L. DOB: 01/19/05 will forgo his commitment to UNC and will sign with the Cubs. <<Zyhir Hope is the real prize on Day 3, Hope is a high school kid with 80 (elite) speed and a plus glove and arm. His high school played him mostly in right, but most scouts see him as a plus glove in center. He’s also pretty strong and can drive the ball with at least average potential major league power. The reason why he was still on the board in the 11th round—other than being a tough sign— is that he has a lot of swing-and-miss in his game. He needs to be much more selective at the plate. On top of that, he’s struggled in some events where he faced better stuff. But Hope is young and there is some massive upside here. Hope fits right in with the Cubs draft strategy. Hope also pitched in high school, just in case that hitting and defense thing doesn’t work out for him. Hope was ranked as the 276th-best player in the draft according to Baseball America. As I mentioned, Hope was expected to be a tough sign but he’s already told his local paper that he intends to sign with the Cubs. The Cubs doubtlessly knew what his bonus demands were (he had a private workout at Pelicans Park) and both sides believe that they will come to an agreement. >> It's almost as if he was meant to be a Cub.
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