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Post by batman66 on Jun 28, 2024 7:09:44 GMT -5
He thinks his age outweighs the pitching. So being young outweighs being able to do the job of two players ........interesting. I mean as a hitter sure , I can see him thinking he's worth it or more , but he's also not an ace pitcher so I think his asking price is ridiculous. |
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Post by batman66 on Jun 28, 2024 7:24:47 GMT -5
Hell even if you go ultra conservative with the number and say you win 10 of those 17 it puts the Cubs at 47-33 , the Brewers are 48-33 Reds 5 (24 SvO - Last) Brewers 8 (37 SvO) Cardinals 9 (42 SvO - First) Mariners 9 Everybody else is Double Digits. Orioles 14 Astros 12 (Hader's Team) Blown Saves - Inning Lieter (2) 7th 8th* Wesneski (1) 8th# Smyly (2) 7th 9th Lovelady (1) 6th Brewer (2) 7th# 9th Almonte (1) 6thNerris (4) 8th# 9th 9th 9th Alzolay (5) 9th 8th* 9th 9th 8th * Last AB # Cubs Win Red - Same Game Helsley's ERA in May-Jun is (3.60) His WHIP is (1.50) / 20 Games. How would that play if 15 of his 20 appearances were 1 Run Games? We don't know. Cubs (36 SvO) 8 of our 17 Blown Saves came before our opponent's last AB or the 9th. Are you saying it's "ultra conservative" to figure that if the Cubs had a "Hader or Helsley", we would only have 7 Blown Saves? Fun fact: Every one of Helsley's 36 Appearances have been for exactly, 1.0 Innings. Yes , and here is why. If you have pen arms in defined normal roles they tend to be better. If they had Hader as the closer then they have Neris as a set up man who has a history of being very good in that role, he doesn't have the same history as a closer and then you have the domino affect of also having Alzolay to use earlier and Leiter to use earlier and in situations where he's more likely to succeed and then you also don't have to see shit like Lovelady, Brewer, Smyly late in games . |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2024 12:19:21 GMT -5
Blown Saves Reds 5 (24 SvO - Last) Brewers 8 (37 SvO) Cardinals 9 (42 SvO - First) Mariners 9 Everybody else is Double Digits. Orioles 14 Astros 12 (Hader's Team) Blown Saves - Inning Lieter (2) 7th 8th* Wesneski (1) 8th# Smyly (2) 7th 9th Lovelady (1) 6th Brewer (2) 7th# 9th Almonte (1) 6thNerris (4) 8th# 9th 9th 9th Alzolay (5) 9th 8th* 9th 9th 8th * Last AB # Cubs Win Red - Same Game Helsley's ERA in May-Jun is (3.60) His WHIP is (1.50) / 20 Games. How would that play if 15 of his 20 appearances were 1 Run Games? We don't know. Cubs (36 SvO) 8 of our 17 Blown Saves came before our opponent's last AB or the 9th. Are you saying it's "ultra conservative" to figure that if the Cubs had a "Hader or Helsley", we would only have 7 Blown Saves? Fun fact: Every one of Helsley's 36 Appearances have been for exactly, 1.0 Innings. Yes , and here is why. If you have pen arms in defined normal roles they tend to be better. If they had Hader as the closer then they have Neris as a set up man who has a history of being very good in that role, he doesn't have the same history as a closer and then you have the domino affect of also having Alzolay to use earlier and Leiter to use earlier and in situations where he's more likely to succeed and then you also don't have to see shit like Lovelady, Brewer, Smyly late in games . of our SvO's came in Mar - April ( 42%). Hader had 2 Saves & an ERA of 7.45 in April. We can only imagine how that scenario would have played out, with this self-loathing Fan Base. Because, we don't know. Or do we? Hendricks the worst Starter in the Majors and Hader giving up runs in 1 Run Games, left & right? Nerris & Alzolay blew 2 Saves in May -- Total. (1 each) Nerris has 2 Blown Saves in June. Hader's June ERA is ( 3.72). Imagine him fucking up April and then giving up runs in all those 1 Run, June Games? Lol. The Pitching Staff still would have been an IL Showcase. Leads would still have been blown earlier, just like they were. One Man (Who was awful through April -- God Awful. And who's June ERA Doubles Smyly's) would have turned all of that into the greatest Relief Core in the Major Leagues? And that's on the " conservative" side? I'm not buying it. |
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Post by batman66 on Jun 28, 2024 12:44:38 GMT -5
Yes , and here is why. If you have pen arms in defined normal roles they tend to be better. If they had Hader as the closer then they have Neris as a set up man who has a history of being very good in that role, he doesn't have the same history as a closer and then you have the domino affect of also having Alzolay to use earlier and Leiter to use earlier and in situations where he's more likely to succeed and then you also don't have to see shit like Lovelady, Brewer, Smyly late in games . of our SvO's came in Mar - April ( 42%). Hader had 2 Saves & an ERA of 7.45 in April. We can just imagine how that scenario would have played out, with this self-loathing Fan Base. Nerris & Alzolay blew 2 Saves in May -- Total. (1 each) Nerris has 2 Blown Saves in June. The Pitching Staff still would have been an IL Showcase. Leads would still have been blown earlier, just like they were. 1 Man (Who was awful through April -- God Awful) would have turned all of that into the greatest Relief Core in the Major Leagues? And that's on the " conservative" side? I'm not buying it. but even if Hader was not Hader in April , he still would have been the closer and these other guys would have been bumped down a role so you can't really say leads would have been blown earlier because some of these clowns might not have been pitching. Maybe Leiter could have been used mainly against just lefties like he excelled last season instead of trying to pitch 1-2 innings . If you want to tell me you don't think this team would be in a lot better shape had they signed Hader then I don't know what else to say. but it you want to harp on me using the words "ultra conservative " by saying if they only blew 7 of the 17 , maybe I used the wrong word or should have just said 7 out of 17. sounds like you are arguing more over the word I used than the state of the bullpen. |
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Post by batman66 on Jun 28, 2024 12:52:18 GMT -5
Yes , and here is why. If you have pen arms in defined normal roles they tend to be better. If they had Hader as the closer then they have Neris as a set up man who has a history of being very good in that role, he doesn't have the same history as a closer and then you have the domino affect of also having Alzolay to use earlier and Leiter to use earlier and in situations where he's more likely to succeed and then you also don't have to see shit like Lovelady, Brewer, Smyly late in games . of our SvO's came in Mar - April ( 42%). Hader had 2 Saves & an ERA of 7.45 in April. We can only imagine how that scenario would have played out, with this self-loathing Fan Base. Because, we don't know. Or do we? Hendricks the worst Starter in the Majors and Hader giving up runs in 1 Run Games, left & right? Nerris & Alzolay blew 2 Saves in May -- Total. (1 each) Nerris has 2 Blown Saves in June. Hader's June ERA is ( 3.72). The Pitching Staff still would have been an IL Showcase. Leads would still have been blown earlier, just like they were. One Man (Who was awful through April -- God Awful. And who's June ERA Doubles Smyly's) would have turned all of that into the greatest Relief Core in the Major Leagues? And that's on the " conservative" side? I'm not buying it. And again , it's not just Hader's performance , yes he was not good in April , he gave up runs in 5 of his 13 outings that month , but it's the trickle down thing where Neris is in a role where he's clearly done better in his career as a set up guy than trying to close and all the others are in different roles. Azolay would not have been blowing games in the 9th either, maybe he has the same results in the 8th , maybe not , it's the mental toughness to close to that plays a part. Lieter could be used more as guy to face lefties like he was last season instead of a guy being used atleast 6 or more times this season to try to get them through 2 innings |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2024 12:53:49 GMT -5
but even if Hader was not Hader in April , he still would have been the closer and these other guys would have been bumped down a role so you can't really say leads would have been blown earlier because some of these clowns might not have been pitching. Maybe Leiter could have been used mainly against just lefties like he excelled last season instead of trying to pitch 1-2 innings . If you want to tell me you don't think this team would be in a lot better shape had they signed Hader then I don't know what else to say. but it you want to harp on me using the words "ultra conservative " by saying if they only blew 7 of the 17 , maybe I used the wrong word or should have just said 7 out of 17. Sounds like you are arguing more over the word I used than the state of the bullpen. . Everyone knows we'd be better if we had better talent. It's a Strawman to suggest anyone is trying to "tell you differently". But 1 Man, with a 0.4 WAR? Who was a nightmare in April and is giving up 3.72 Runs in June?A 5.57 ERA in 2 our 3 Months ( 70% of our SVO's?) In all those 1 Run Games? And that's not even counting the extra Unearned Runs this Defense allows. $95 Million to boot? Is it hard to imagine this Fan Base, turning on (the hated) Hader, right off the bat? Or the effects of that vitriol? Remember Kimbrel?
10 Save difference? 1/2 Game behind the Brewers, instead of 10 1/2? And 10 is Ultra Conservative? You're the one who said it. And I'm the dummy for having the audacity to disagree? Lol. It's Ok to admit that you didn't quite think that one through. You're already down to 7 additional Saves, moments after thinking about it. |
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Post by batman66 on Jun 28, 2024 14:46:11 GMT -5
but even if Hader was not Hader in April , he still would have been the closer and these other guys would have been bumped down a role so you can't really say leads would have been blown earlier because some of these clowns might not have been pitching. Maybe Leiter could have been used mainly against just lefties like he excelled last season instead of trying to pitch 1-2 innings . If you want to tell me you don't think this team would be in a lot better shape had they signed Hader then I don't know what else to say. but it you want to harp on me using the words "ultra conservative " by saying if they only blew 7 of the 17 , maybe I used the wrong word or should have just said 7 out of 17. sounds like you are arguing more over the word I used than the state of the bullpen. Of course I am. Everyone knows we'd be better if we had better talent. It's a Strawman to suggest anyone has stated differently. But 1 Man, with a 0.4 WAR?
Who was a nightmare in April and is giving up 3.72 Runs in June?A 5.57 ERA in 2 our 3 Months ( 70% of our SVO's?) In all those 1 Run Games? And that's not even counting the extra Unearned Runs this Defense allows. $95 Million to boot? Is it hard to imagine this Fan Base, turning on (the hated) Hader, right off the bat? Or the effects of that vitriol? Remember Kimbrel?
10 Save difference? 1/2 Game behind the Brewers, instead of 10 1/2? Lol. That's just emotion, spewing hyperbole. It's Ok to admit that you didn't quite think that one through. You're already down to 7 additional Saves, moments after thinking about it. You seem closed off to the notion just having a guy like Hader would have put EVERY single pen arm in a different and more defined role in which chances are the likely would be better in than they were when asked to do more. Just ignore Neris sucks as a closer but has been pretty damn good in his career as a 7th or 8th inning guy and Leiter has been asked to go multiple innings instead of just get lefties out . So that could have a very big affect on those earlier than 9th inning blown saves. Hader's June consists of 3 outings that he gave up runs in and his 3.72 sure as hell looks better than Neris 7.27 in June Hell it doesn't even have to be Hader , just a have a legit closer and then they would not have had to had the clowns they have tried close games |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2024 14:56:39 GMT -5
You seem closed off to the notion just having a guy like Hader would have put EVERY single pen arm in a different and more defined role in which chances are the likely would be better in than they were when asked to do more. Just ignore Neris sucks as a closer but has been pretty damn good in his career as a 7th or 8th inning guy and Leiter has been asked to go multiple innings instead of just get lefties out . So that could have a very big affect on those earlier than 9th inning blown saves. Hader's June consists of 3 outings that he gave up runs in and his 3.72 sure as hell looks better than Neris 7.27 in June Hell it doesn't even have to be Hader , just a have a legit closer and then they would not have had to had the clowns they have tried close games Everybody knows we'd be better, if we had better talent. You don't get extra credit for pointing that out. The question is "How many Wins better?"You Said 10. Which would make us the BEST Bullpen in Baseball & 1/2 Game out? And you added, that 10 was being ultra conservative. Then you got some facts thrown at you. Not opinions. Facts. Then you came off that 10. Sounds like we're good. EDIT: Adding 1 guy would not get rid of 5 Clowns. It would get rid of 1. The other 4 Clowns would still be there. Clowning it up. |
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Post by batman66 on Jun 28, 2024 19:01:05 GMT -5
You seem closed off to the notion just having a guy like Hader would have put EVERY single pen arm in a different and more defined role in which chances are the likely would be better in than they were when asked to do more. Just ignore Neris sucks as a closer but has been pretty damn good in his career as a 7th or 8th inning guy and Leiter has been asked to go multiple innings instead of just get lefties out . So that could have a very big affect on those earlier than 9th inning blown saves. Hader's June consists of 3 outings that he gave up runs in and his 3.72 sure as hell looks better than Neris 7.27 in June Hell it doesn't even have to be Hader , just a have a legit closer and then they would not have had to had the clowns they have tried close games Everybody knows we'd be better, if we had better talent. You don't get extra credit for pointing that out. The question is "How many Wins better?"You Said 10. Which would make us the BEST Bullpen in Baseball & 1/2 Game out? And you added, that 10 was being ultra conservative. Then you got some facts thrown at you. Not opinions. Facts. Then you came off that 10. Sounds like we're good. EDIT: Adding 1 guy would not get rid of 5 Clowns. It would get rid of 1. The other 4 Clowns would still be there. Clowning it up. Fucks sake , talk about being stuck on a couple words , forgive me for saying ultra conservative , yes I was wrong in using the words but I don't feel I'm wrong with the big picture of having a legit closer possibly making all the others better if they had a lesser role.. My initial thought was even if it was just 7 blown saves and 10 more wins and I used those numbers because it would have put them about even with Milwaukee. I was thinking 7 blown saves would have still been a bad number, I didn't realize how many other pens have blown so many saves until you mentioned it. And again , the point you won't acknowledge because you are stuck on ultra conservative is yes adding a legit closer makes the other clowns get knocked down a notch into roles they might be able to handle better. It doesn't get rid of them but it puts them in a different role where they have shown they are better at doing. Nerris is the prime example and then you have a trickle down affect with all the others. |
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Post by kfidd on Jun 29, 2024 21:43:11 GMT -5
If the front office wants to clear some roster space they should get on the phone with Texas yesterday. 9.0 back in division, 7.5 back in wild card. They are hoping for reinforcements soon as Jung, Langford, Carter, and deGrom are currently in line for second half returns. But they may have just lost Seager for a period of time following a hit by pitch on his wrist tonight where he immediately went down in pain.
Their CF and 1B production has been brutal so Bellinger could serve some intrigue for them. I’d also gauge interest on Hoerner or Morel considering the state of their infield.
Yankees might also be interested in Bellinger. They are having an incredible season and considering they might lose Soto this offseason they need to be all in. Bellinger in center slides Judge over to a corner but they also lost Rizzo recently so there’s some additional Bellinger incentive there.
I think it’s important to get out of this Bellinger situation. The slug has disappeared despite his batted ball metrics being almost identical to last season’s. The luck has run out. Maybe even more importantly is that the two positions Bellinger plays, whelp, PCA and Busch need the time and opportunities there as potential players of tomorrow years.
Get on the phone and see if something can happen.
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Post by foolforthecity on Jun 30, 2024 9:19:15 GMT -5
But kfidd… they beat the mighty Brewers yesterday and things are turning around 🙄😂
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Post by lu13cubbie on Jun 30, 2024 10:13:32 GMT -5
Some talk this morning on my 'puter home page about Bellinger being a target for the Dodgers, Phils, Rangers and Yankees.
With Busch looking like he can hold 1st base down and PCA in CF, this might work for the Cubs. Maybe.
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Post by batman66 on Jun 30, 2024 10:36:28 GMT -5
Some talk this morning on my 'puter home page about Bellinger being a target for the Dodgers, Phils, Rangers and Yankees. With Busch looking like he can hold 1st base down and PCA in CF, this might work for the Cubs. Maybe. 99% of the stuff popping up on homepages is clickbait bullshit holding no merit at all. I've seem the Cubs are targeting Jack Flaherty in a trade bullshit all week and tons of other stuff. It's mostly all just made up nonsense. Unless I see it on MLBTRADERMORS I usually won't even click on it anymore. I saw all the Bellinger stuff start popping up a few days ago. |
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Post by Mike on Jun 30, 2024 13:27:49 GMT -5
There are a few insiders that want to get you the scoop first on X, but you have to ask yourself if the move makes sense for both clubs. Usually, if something gets leaked early, it's like an instagram post from a relative.
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Post by kfidd on Jun 30, 2024 13:48:47 GMT -5
Some talk this morning on my 'puter home page about Bellinger being a target for the Dodgers, Phils, Rangers and Yankees. With Busch looking like he can hold 1st base down and PCA in CF, this might work for the Cubs. Maybe. If Bellinger gets moved at all, which I don’t think he does due to the big dollars and belief Hoyer won’t swallow his pride and do it, my money would be on the Yankees. They make the most sense to me due to the Soto factor. |
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Post by Mike on Jun 30, 2024 14:00:01 GMT -5
Bellinger would be a good hedge at 1B/OF for Rizzo's health, Davis' lack of power, and Verdugo's low BABIP.
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Post by batman66 on Jul 1, 2024 7:22:14 GMT -5
Some talk this morning on my 'puter home page about Bellinger being a target for the Dodgers, Phils, Rangers and Yankees. With Busch looking like he can hold 1st base down and PCA in CF, this might work for the Cubs. Maybe. If Bellinger gets moved at all, which I don’t think he does due to the big dollars and belief Hoyer won’t swallow his pride and do it, my money would be on the Yankees. They make the most sense to me due to the Soto factor. Rumors have had Bellinger going to the Yankees from the minute he signed his first contract with the Cubs |
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Post by TheChico on Jul 1, 2024 10:55:52 GMT -5
Jon Moresi just said the Cubs and Mariners are having trade talks involving Nico Hoerner.
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Post by cfin on Jul 1, 2024 11:42:46 GMT -5
Hoerner probably has some decent trade value, one of the few players that could potentially bring something back.
But I don't really see anything in the Mariner's system that interests me.
The idea for trading Hoerner would be to move Morel to 2B, it does result in a hit to your defense, but Morel's strongest position is probably 2B.
But that means that if you're trading Hoerner, you've got to fill your 3B spot. And I don't see anything in the Mariner's system that would do that. Maybe there's another trade being worked some where. But that's the only way trading Hoerner makes sense to me.
I wouldn't be shocked to see Steele mentioned in some trade rumors also, he's another Cub that would have decent trade value.
Any other trade you make (Tauchman, Happ, Suzuki, Bellinger) would just be about trimming excess fat. There's not a lot of value there, but just opening things up for prospects that MIGHT be better equipped to offer better lineup balance.
Morel MIGHT have some value, but I'm not sure how much. As far as trading value and getting something back, trading Hoerner and moving Morel to 2B is probably the better move.
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Post by Mike on Jul 1, 2024 13:25:57 GMT -5
I'd imagine you find a place for Ballesteros at 1B/C/DH and move Busch to 2B. Maybe that Guerrero, Jr trade happens in the offseason or we get 1B Tyler Locklear as a return for Hoerner to keep payroll down. Make a trade with Orioles and get Mayo. Sign Soto and get/find a closer.
LF Happ (S) / Canario
RF Suzuki
DH Soto (L)
3B Mayo
2B Busch (L)
1B Locklear
CF Tauchman (L) / PCA (L)
SS Swanson
C Ballesteros (L) / Amaya
IF Shaw
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