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Post by rvn11 on Jul 1, 2024 14:42:28 GMT -5
Hoerner probably has some decent trade value, one of the few players that could potentially bring something back. But I don't really see anything in the Mariner's system that interests me. The idea for trading Hoerner would be to move Morel to 2B, it does result in a hit to your defense, but Morel's strongest position is probably 2B. But that means that if you're trading Hoerner, you've got to fill your 3B spot. And I don't see anything in the Mariner's system that would do that. Maybe there's another trade being worked some where. But that's the only way trading Hoerner makes sense to me. I wouldn't be shocked to see Steele mentioned in some trade rumors also, he's another Cub that would have decent trade value. Any other trade you make (Tauchman, Happ, Suzuki, Bellinger) would just be about trimming excess fat. There's not a lot of value there, but just opening things up for prospects that MIGHT be better equipped to offer better lineup balance. Morel MIGHT have some value, but I'm not sure how much. As far as trading value and getting something back, trading Hoerner and moving Morel to 2B is probably the better move. Or might explain why Shaw is getting so much playing time at 2b in the minors.
I'd be really surprised to see Nico go, but he's just not getting it done as expected.
Not sure Busch can really handle 2b, he just doesn't look the part to me. Only played 2 games there this year, can't remember if that was out of necessity or not.
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Post by batman66 on Jul 1, 2024 17:14:36 GMT -5
Hoerner probably has some decent trade value, one of the few players that could potentially bring something back. But I don't really see anything in the Mariner's system that interests me. The idea for trading Hoerner would be to move Morel to 2B, it does result in a hit to your defense, but Morel's strongest position is probably 2B. But that means that if you're trading Hoerner, you've got to fill your 3B spot. And I don't see anything in the Mariner's system that would do that. Maybe there's another trade being worked some where. But that's the only way trading Hoerner makes sense to me. I wouldn't be shocked to see Steele mentioned in some trade rumors also, he's another Cub that would have decent trade value. Any other trade you make (Tauchman, Happ, Suzuki, Bellinger) would just be about trimming excess fat. There's not a lot of value there, but just opening things up for prospects that MIGHT be better equipped to offer better lineup balance. Morel MIGHT have some value, but I'm not sure how much. As far as trading value and getting something back, trading Hoerner and moving Morel to 2B is probably the better move. Or might explain why Shaw is getting so much playing time at 2b in the minors.
I'd be really surprised to see Nico go, but he's just not getting it done as expected.
Not sure Busch can really handle 2b, he just doesn't look the part to me. Only played 2 games there this year, can't remember if that was out of necessity or not.
Well if they do trade him they have enough guys who can play 2b the rest of the season and then Shaw or Triantos could be the future there. |
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Post by fine09 on Jul 1, 2024 18:14:34 GMT -5
Hoerner probably has some decent trade value, one of the few players that could potentially bring something back. But I don't really see anything in the Mariner's system that interests me. The idea for trading Hoerner would be to move Morel to 2B, it does result in a hit to your defense, but Morel's strongest position is probably 2B. But that means that if you're trading Hoerner, you've got to fill your 3B spot. And I don't see anything in the Mariner's system that would do that. Maybe there's another trade being worked some where. But that's the only way trading Hoerner makes sense to me. I wouldn't be shocked to see Steele mentioned in some trade rumors also, he's another Cub that would have decent trade value. Any other trade you make (Tauchman, Happ, Suzuki, Bellinger) would just be about trimming excess fat. There's not a lot of value there, but just opening things up for prospects that MIGHT be better equipped to offer better lineup balance. Morel MIGHT have some value, but I'm not sure how much. As far as trading value and getting something back, trading Hoerner and moving Morel to 2B is probably the better move. You lost me on Steele might have some trade value. He might be the most valuable pitcher if he were available which he won’t be. 3-1/2 years of an ace starter.. |
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Post by batman66 on Jul 1, 2024 18:57:08 GMT -5
I can't focus on the Cubs today.
NHL free agency opened up today , all I can say is I wish baseball free agency played out like the other sports do and almost everything happens in one day.
BlackHawks have made some very good signings today and have signed 8 guys so far , fuck that waiting 2-3-4 months baseball bullshit !
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Post by chubbycub on Jul 1, 2024 19:00:10 GMT -5
Holy crap. Nico Hoerner is a guy you build AROUND, not cast off after half an uncharacteristic season. He's the most reliable hitter they have had for 2-3 years and if I believe anything I read here, they are trying to coax more power out of him instead of letting him do what he does.
Which is why he's having an off year so far. He's got a hitting streak going and he and Swanson have been their usual defensive selves for about two months.
Ya probably wanna trade him too, huh? Let's just go ahead and gut the team we thought Jed assembled for a good chance to improve on last year. No way in hell anyone thought they would start like they did.
This is a classic knee jerk reaction that's been going on for years, so it's not an event. For some of you it's way past a trend and now a habit. Nothing to do today? Play GM.
I said it before and I'll say it again: let Morel have 3B for one year and THEN evaluate him. Against Nico in the field, he has no chance both in performance and instinct. The ONE THING he has is power, and there are too many people here who only want that.
The line for Nico will be about 20 teams long. So let's trade him now while his value is high because he has a hitting streak going. Right? They have enough guys who can "play" 2B? Yeah like Mastrobuoni, Madrigal, Morel, another M name and maybe Busch. You don't EVER need "enough guys", you need ONE GREAT GUY. Every game. Not a platoon of hopers, that's a management move that goes back to 2012 when they set a record for number of players used. Or 2011 or 2010, I don't remember the specific but I remember the feeling. Wanna go back to that?
If Jed thought that way, Imanaga would have been gone before that 10 run game and we would have two "solid" starters that give us 5 innings and 2 runs on an "excellent" day, according to today's pitching standards that I would bet most of us don't abide by, because we've seen excellent and it ain't a 3.60 ERA.
Whew, I need a rest.
Now... if Nico can get us Alonso....hey kid, it's a game for you but a business for us.
And then Alonso becomes Kingman right before our eyes because our coaches are idiots and try to turn him into more of a contact hitter.
If I ever lose my sense of humor just shoot me....
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Post by batman66 on Jul 1, 2024 19:08:53 GMT -5
Holy crap. Nico Hoerner is a guy you build AROUND, not cast off after half an uncharacteristic season. He's the most reliable hitter they have had for 2-3 years and if I believe anything I read here, they are trying to coax more power out of him instead of letting him do what he does. Which is why he's having an off year so far. He's got a hitting streak going and he and Swanson have been their usual defensive selves for about two months. Ya probably wanna trade him too, huh? Let's just go ahead and gut the team we thought Jed assembled for a good chance to improve on last year. No way in hell anyone thought they would start like they did. This is a classic knee jerk reaction that's been going on for years, so it's not an event. For some of you it's way past a trend and now a habit. Nothing to do today? Play GM. I said it before and I'll say it again: let Morel have 3B for one year and THEN evaluate him. Against Nico in the field, he has no chance both in performance and instinct. The ONE THING he has is power, and there are too many people here who only want that. The line for Nico will be about 20 teams long. So let's trade him now while his value is high because he has a hitting streak going. Right? They have enough guys who can "play" 2B? Yeah like Mastrobuoni, Madrigal, Morel, another M name and maybe Busch. You don't EVER need "enough guys", you need ONE GREAT GUY. Every game. Not a platoon of hopers, that's a management move that goes back to 2012 when they set a record for number of players used. Or 2011 or 2010, I don't remember the specific but I remember the feeling. Wanna go back to that? If Jed thought that way, Imanaga would have been gone before that 10 run game and we would have two "solid" starters that give us 5 innings and 2 runs on an "excellent" day, according to today's pitching standards that I would bet most of us don't abide by, because we've seen excellent and it ain't a 3.60 ERA. Whew, I need a rest. Now... if Nico can get us Alonso....hey kid, it's a game for you but a business for us. And then Alonso becomes Kingman right before our eyes because our coaches are idiots and try to turn him into more of a contact hitter. If I ever lose my sense of humor just shoot me.... I didn't say I want them to or they should , but both Shaw and Traintos have a chance to be better hitters than he is so I'm not sure what the long term plan is with Nico or with those two and how all three would fit in. I'm just saying if they do trade him , there likely is not going to be a hole at 2b for this season it would likely be Busch or Morel and next Shaw or Triantos. |
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Post by Mike on Jul 1, 2024 19:22:57 GMT -5
I'll lose my mind if we trade Hoerner and Mastrobuoni gets all of the starts there.
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Post by cfin on Jul 1, 2024 19:53:41 GMT -5
Holy crap. Nico Hoerner is a guy you build AROUND, not cast off after half an uncharacteristic season. He's the most reliable hitter they have had for 2-3 years and if I believe anything I read here, they are trying to coax more power out of him instead of letting him do what he does. You have to give up talent to get talent. This is more about the absolute abysmal lack of talent on this roster than trading away talent. Hoerner, Steele, Imanaga (I can't see him being traded), and MAYBE Assad (he'd have to come back from injury even then its iffy on just how much trade value he would have) If you're wanting to solve the 3B problem - which probably should be offensive priority #1 since I'm not sure there's really anyone in the system to take that spot - you're going to have to trade from that above pool of players. You can trade Bellinger, Happ, Suzuki, any of the other veteran players on the roster - you'll get rid of them, but you're not going to get a lot back. I'm fine with going this way - I would love to carve out some space for Canario to get a real shot at the major league level, perhaps even open the door for Caissie - but just don't expect to get a lot back in those trades. And you're probably not going to solve your 3B problem. |
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Post by kfidd on Jul 1, 2024 20:06:08 GMT -5
I’ve always felt like Hoerner is overrated by most Cubs fans. He’s been the most reliable hitter we’ve had three years running? His wRC+ from 2022-2024 is 104. That’s exactly the problem with this roster, we’ve got a bunch of decent to good players but no glue guys to rally behind and actually build around.
Hoerner is a good player but most of his value comes from his defense and speed. Not a bad thing but not some irreplaceable player we build around. If there was a good deal out there I’d absolutely be open to moving him. There isn’t a player on this roster I wouldn’t be willing to move.
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Post by batman66 on Jul 1, 2024 20:39:07 GMT -5
I’ve always felt like Hoerner is overrated by most Cubs fans. He’s been the most reliable hitter we’ve had three years running? His wRC+ from 2022-2024 is 104. That’s exactly the problem with this roster, we’ve got a bunch of decent to good players but no glue guys to rally behind and actually build around. Hoerner is a good player but most of his value comes from his defense and speed. Not a bad thing but not some irreplaceable player we build around. If there was a good deal out there I’d absolutely be open to moving him. There isn’t a player on this roster I wouldn’t be willing to move. Shaw and Triantos project as potentially better hitters and they both also have speed , they just are not going to give you the defense Nico does . Shaw has 19 stolen bases in 24 attempts and Triantos has 29 in 34 attempts , so Nico's only value above those guys is his defense, and I'm not sure that overcomes the offensive side they both can bring. Shaw has 21 extra base hits and is compared to Pedroia a lot Traintos has 24 extra base hits and could be a legit .300ish hitter Again , I'm not saying I want them to trade Nico or they should , but there are those two guys who could probably step right into his shoes in 2025 if not sooner .....and then there is Rojas, Hernendez , Pedro Ramirez who is never mentioned and is the Cubs #12 prospect having a fine season at SB . |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2024 21:58:30 GMT -5
If Bellinger gets moved at all, my money would be on the Yankees. Rumors have had Bellinger going to the Yankees from the minute he signed his first contract with the Cubs Actually, quite a bit before that. |
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Post by kfidd on Jul 2, 2024 0:44:13 GMT -5
I can't focus on the Cubs today. NHL free agency opened up today , all I can say is I wish baseball free agency played out like the other sports do and almost everything happens in one day. BlackHawks have made some very good signings today and have signed 8 guys so far , fuck that waiting 2-3-4 months baseball bullshit ! Super fun day in free agency. Nashville… wtf?! But absolutely with the Blackhawks. Lots of movement and all sensical. We’ll likely still be very bad but surrounding Bedard and the other young players with competent veterans to help nurture and guide them along? I like that, and they got a bunch of that today. And bonus: Welcome back to Tuevo! Gotta love that! |
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Post by thisbuds4u on Jul 2, 2024 5:08:42 GMT -5
I’ve always felt like Hoerner is overrated by most Cubs fans. He’s been the most reliable hitter we’ve had three years running? His wRC+ from 2022-2024 is 104. That’s exactly the problem with this roster, we’ve got a bunch of decent to good players but no glue guys to rally behind and actually build around. Hoerner is a good player but most of his value comes from his defense and speed. Not a bad thing but not some irreplaceable player we build around. If there was a good deal out there I’d absolutely be open to moving him. There isn’t a player on this roster I wouldn’t be willing to move. When the bottom of the lineup is Morel, Swanson, PCA, Amaya, Nido and a just released Gomes don't expect much offense. Swanson leads the way with a .217 BA while the rest sit below .200. Hell, 9 of the 20 position players, who were or are on the roster, have a batting average below .200. So much attention is placed on home runs when the focus should be on runs. The Brewers have hit 5 more HRs than the Cubs yet have scored 65 more runs than the Cubs. Add in the fact that the Brewers have a better bullpen and you can see why they are in 1st and the Cubs are in last place. |
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Post by batman66 on Jul 2, 2024 7:34:18 GMT -5
I can't focus on the Cubs today. NHL free agency opened up today , all I can say is I wish baseball free agency played out like the other sports do and almost everything happens in one day. BlackHawks have made some very good signings today and have signed 8 guys so far , fuck that waiting 2-3-4 months baseball bullshit ! Super fun day in free agency. Nashville… wtf?! But absolutely with the Blackhawks. Lots of movement and all sensical. We’ll likely still be very bad but surrounding Bedard and the other young players with competent veterans to help nurture and guide them along? I like that, and they got a bunch of that today. And bonus: Welcome back to Tuevo! Gotta love that! They should be a lot better but they have a long way to go still but so much young talent on the way they just needed to compliment it with the right veterans and I think they did unless a disaster like last season happens with injuries and other issues again which I doubt happens like it did with Hall and Perry. Defense and goaltending was brutal and they added some pretty solid veteran defensemen short term and I'm hoping Levshunov doesn't go back for another year at Michigan State but he probably will , he will be a game changer for the D . |
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Post by batman66 on Jul 2, 2024 7:42:22 GMT -5
I can't focus on the Cubs today. NHL free agency opened up today , all I can say is I wish baseball free agency played out like the other sports do and almost everything happens in one day. BlackHawks have made some very good signings today and have signed 8 guys so far , fuck that waiting 2-3-4 months baseball bullshit ! Super fun day in free agency. Nashville… wtf?! But absolutely with the Blackhawks. Lots of movement and all sensical. We’ll likely still be very bad but surrounding Bedard and the other young players with competent veterans to help nurture and guide them along? I like that, and they got a bunch of that today. And bonus: Welcome back to Tuevo! Gotta love that! Yeah , Nashville went all Dodgers in free agency. I really wish baseball free agency would play out like the NHL does , I would look forward to that day more than any other aside from a Cubs WS . It's pretty much non stop from minute one with news of signings pouring in all day long. |
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Post by kfidd on Jul 2, 2024 9:11:03 GMT -5
I’ve always felt like Hoerner is overrated by most Cubs fans. He’s been the most reliable hitter we’ve had three years running? His wRC+ from 2022-2024 is 104. That’s exactly the problem with this roster, we’ve got a bunch of decent to good players but no glue guys to rally behind and actually build around. Hoerner is a good player but most of his value comes from his defense and speed. Not a bad thing but not some irreplaceable player we build around. If there was a good deal out there I’d absolutely be open to moving him. There isn’t a player on this roster I wouldn’t be willing to move. When the bottom of the lineup is Morel, Swanson, PCA, Amaya, Nido and a just released Gomes don't expect much offense. Swanson leads the way with a .217 BA while the rest sit below .200. Hell, 9 of the 20 position players, who were or are on the roster, have a batting average below .200. So much attention is placed on home runs when the focus should be on runs. The Brewers have hit 5 more HRs than the Cubs yet have scored 65 more runs than the Cubs. Add in the fact that the Brewers have a better bullpen and you can see why they are in 1st and the Cubs are in last place. There are multiple ways to build an effective offense. I think the best ones have a reasonably balanced attack but generally speaking have one particularly strong identifier of some sort. The Brewers offense is built on contact and speed. They have several young burners on the basepaths who are looking to simply put the ball in play and run it out. They effectively have high slugging because of this A single is an easy double or even triple for some of them (2nd in baseball with 119 stolen bases). The Cubs aren’t built this way. They don’t have that blazing team speed. In fact their burners (Hoerner and PCA) are both performing subpar at the plate with poor on base percentages so they can’t maximize that blazing speed. The argument that the team needs more power is hard to deny when they currently are 25th in slugging and 19th in home runs. More of everything is needed with this team. More power, more contact, more on base. But the beginning of the solution has to come from the heart of the order. Contact and speed makes for great table setters but power then has to be present to drive them in. |
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Post by irishcubfan on Jul 2, 2024 9:33:20 GMT -5
It is simple, the Cubs need power. Power pitching and power hitting. The Cubs need a more swing and miss staff. The Cubs need more slug, HR and 2b. Difficult to score runs when 3 singles are needed for a run. More doubles and HR would go a long way to helping this offense.
Hoerner is an average to slightly above average player with most of his value being defense. Ditto Swanson. One of the reasons why the Swanson deal was so bad is that the team needed more power at the time of the signing and already had Swanson lite in Hoerner (granted Swanson has more range but still is Swanson 147 million more valuable than Hoerner).
Out of all of the players on this current offense, the most important is Busch. Sure he strikes out more than we would like but he has a clue of the strike zone and shows actual ability of power. And ofc is cheap. If the Cubs are going after young players this TDL it should be player profiles like Busch.
Ofc the Cubs also need Soto but that requires a new FO and maybe owner so instead they need to target players with an upside similar to Busch.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 2, 2024 10:04:03 GMT -5
When the bottom of the lineup is Morel, Swanson, PCA, Amaya, Nido and a just released Gomes don't expect much offense. Swanson leads the way with a .217 BA while the rest sit below .200. Hell, 9 of the 20 position players, who were or are on the roster, have a batting average below .200. So much attention is placed on home runs when the focus should be on runs. The Brewers have hit 5 more HRs than the Cubs yet have scored 65 more runs than the Cubs. Add in the fact that the Brewers have a better bullpen and you can see why they are in 1st and the Cubs are in last place. There are multiple ways to build an effective offense. I think the best ones have a reasonably balanced attack but generally speaking have one particularly strong identifier of some sort. The Brewers offense is built on contact and speed. They have several young burners on the basepaths who are looking to simply put the ball in play and run it out. They effectively have high slugging because of this A single is an easy double or even triple for some of them (2nd in baseball with 119 stolen bases). The Cubs aren’t built this way. They don’t have that blazing team speed. In fact their burners (Hoerner and PCA) are both performing subpar at the plate with poor on base percentages so they can’t maximize that blazing speed. The argument that the team needs more power is hard to deny when they currently are 25th in slugging and 19th in home runs. More of everything is needed with this team. More power, more contact, more on base. But the beginning of the solution has to come from the heart of the order. Contact and speed makes for great table setters but power then has to be present to drive them in. The Brewers are also just about top 5 in every NL offensive stat. It's not just speed, though they're not an offensive force by any means. Here's what's puzzling to me.... the Cubs are 3rd in the NL in triples, 8th in HRs (not too bad and only 5 behind the Brewers for 6th), but the puzzling one for me is doubles. The Cubs are 14 out of 15 with 117 doubles (Pirates have 116 and in last in the NL). Cubs are 27th in MLB in doubles, league leading Twins have 166. Where's the gap to gap power? Are the Cubs just not going for it? Is Napoli being ultra conservative or are guys getting thrown out? Here's the thing though, the Cubs are 25th in the MLB in hits. They just can't hit. |
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 2, 2024 10:08:27 GMT -5
I think the Cubs will sell and I'll stick with my prediction that it's Taillon, Belly and I'll still say Hendricks. I never thought about Nico and I will agree with another poster, probably the most overrated Cub since Theriot  |
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Post by TheChico on Jul 2, 2024 10:26:16 GMT -5
There are multiple ways to build an effective offense. I think the best ones have a reasonably balanced attack but generally speaking have one particularly strong identifier of some sort. The Brewers offense is built on contact and speed. They have several young burners on the basepaths who are looking to simply put the ball in play and run it out. They effectively have high slugging because of this A single is an easy double or even triple for some of them (2nd in baseball with 119 stolen bases). The Cubs aren’t built this way. They don’t have that blazing team speed. In fact their burners (Hoerner and PCA) are both performing subpar at the plate with poor on base percentages so they can’t maximize that blazing speed. The argument that the team needs more power is hard to deny when they currently are 25th in slugging and 19th in home runs. More of everything is needed with this team. More power, more contact, more on base. But the beginning of the solution has to come from the heart of the order. Contact and speed makes for great table setters but power then has to be present to drive them in. The Brewers are also just about top 5 in every NL offensive stat. It's not just speed, though they're not an offensive force by any means. Here's what's puzzling to me.... the Cubs are 3rd in the NL in triples, 8th in HRs (not too bad and only 5 behind the Brewers for 6th), but the puzzling one for me is doubles. The Cubs are 14 out of 15 with 117 doubles (Pirates have 116 and in last in the NL). Cubs are 27th in MLB in doubles, league leading Twins have 166. Where's the gap to gap power? Are the Cubs just not going for it? Is Napoli being ultra conservative or are guys getting thrown out? Here's the thing though, the Cubs are 25th in the MLB in hits. They just can't hit. The Gap power is near non-existent on this team, seeing the Cubs near the bottom in doubles is not shocking and it is not Napoli thing either, when I watch games it is flyballs, groundballs, walks or strikeouts and rare to see a Cubs hitter drive one between the gaps in the outfield or even going opposite field. This team is pull happy and makes it very easy for other teams to scout the Cubs offense and to know how to exactly align their fielders, hence 110 mph hard it ball always seems to find a glove. Lots of fans are saying the offense has had bad luck with hard it balls this year, but in reality they are just really predictable where they are going to hit the ball. |
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