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Post by TheChico on Jul 30, 2024 12:29:49 GMT -5
Cubs continue to collect very tall big pitchers in Jack Neely who overall between AA/AAA has a 3.02 ERA with 63 Strikrouts in 41.2 innings.
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Post by kfidd on Jul 30, 2024 12:33:17 GMT -5
You are right that their removal from prospect status lowers the system value but the bigger reason for the rankings drop is we now have zero 55 FV ranked prospects in the system. That doesn’t mean that they can’t be meaningful contributors in the future but it’s also not like we can point to our system and say “look, there he is. That’s the guy, the answer to our prayers.” But the other problem is by not selling what you can Jed has essentially dug his feet in with multi year commitments at the following positions: C 1B Busch - .804 OPS 2B Hoerner - .668 OPS 3B Paredes - .792 OPS SS Swanson - .632 OPS RF Bellinger - .741 OPS CF PCA - .550 OPS LF Happ - .772 OPS DH Suzuki - .815 OPS I don’t care when a rookie struggles, PCA is fine for now. And even ignoring how underwhelming Hoerner, Swanson, and Bellinger in particular have all been. The bigger standout there should be that while there is some goodish, some okayish, there is no great and there is no room to add a great. The Cubs strategy for offensive improvement in 2025 looks like it’s going to be “whelp, I sure hope these guys can rebound from their off years.” Super inspiring. Its early. A lot can change. Hoerner and/or Bellinger can be moved over the next 10 hours. There’s an offseason ahead. But this is Hoyer and this is our front office we are talking about. Someone yesterday was saying they’d rather have Jed and his smart depth building plan than the clowns like me calling for him to grow balls and make impactful moves. “Brains over balls.” Jed’s big brains don’t seem capable of moving us beyond mediocrity right now. I think what Hoyer has done is built a roster that he believes should be better than it actually is but when it isn’t he doesn’t look to change things up and move on from his mistakes, instead adding a bit of fringe depth here and there while doubling down on his original roster vision. There is where the stubborn Jed mantra came from over the past couple years. Rather than trying to build a winner he builds a roster that he hopes can win and when it doesn’t he doesn’t make meaningful changes, just hopes for the rebound. That’s why I don’t trust his pre-deadline statement about building for 2025 and beyond. He hasn’t proven capable of doing that in any meaningful way. But he has sub-10 hours to at least inspire some positivity and hope so fingers crossed. 1B Busch - .804 OPS 2B Hoerner - .668 OPS 3B Paredes - .792 OPS SS Swanson - .632 OPS RF Bellinger - .741 OPS CF PCA - .550 OPS LF Happ - .772 OPS DH Suzuki - .815 OPS seems bad , right ? They have 3 players close to or over an .800 ops , that's 1/3 of the line up , wanna take a guess on how many players in all of baseball with a qualified number of at bats have an .800+ ops this season ? The answer is 36 Some playoff level teams with the amount of .800+ ops players Yankees 2 Orioles 3 Dodgers 3 Phillies 3 Brewers 0 Yelich is .909 but way short of qualifying Astros 2 Guardians 2 The Cubs have three guys at or near .800 OPS and you think it’s a good argument to say that is a good measuring stick compared to the best offenses in baseball? That’s a very disingenuous argument you are trying to make but the best counter to it? Runs scored Yankees: 553 Orioles: 537 Dodgers: 528 Phillies: 516 Brewers: 506 Astros: 495 Guardians: 486 Cubs: 441 Yes, if the Cubs had scored 15-20% more runs this season I bet they’d be in much better shape. But again, ignoring all of that even, the question is how do the Cubs solidify their lineup from here? There are no openings. We’ve locked down our entire diamond sans catcher for the next 2+ years at each position. And while you may feel good that we have three at or near .800 hitters in our lineup none of them are the glue you can put at the 2-3-4 spot and feel great about. Yankees: 1.034, 1.142 Orioles: .928, 3 others .830+ Dodgers: 1.043, .893, .888 Phillies: .933, .882 Astros: .979, 916 Guardians: .897, .882, 3 others .830+ Brewers: Unique example, without Yelich no one over .800 What was the point you were trying to make? |
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Post by kfidd on Jul 30, 2024 12:34:09 GMT -5
Now trade more. Go go go
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 30, 2024 12:40:12 GMT -5
Batman loves to do this... now post the actual OPS of those players from the other teams LOL
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Post by trav768 on Jul 30, 2024 12:41:35 GMT -5
sounds like Yankees fans are not happy with this trade
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 30, 2024 12:42:45 GMT -5
1B Busch - .804 OPS 2B Hoerner - .668 OPS 3B Paredes - .792 OPS SS Swanson - .632 OPS RF Bellinger - .741 OPS CF PCA - .550 OPS LF Happ - .772 OPS DH Suzuki - .815 OPS seems bad , right ? They have 3 players close to or over an .800 ops , that's 1/3 of the line up , wanna take a guess on how many players in all of baseball with a qualified number of at bats have an .800+ ops this season ? The answer is 36 Some playoff level teams with the amount of .800+ ops players Yankees 2 Orioles 3 Dodgers 3 Phillies 3 Brewers 0 Yelich is .909 but way short of qualifying Astros 2 Guardians 2 The Cubs have three guys at or near .800 OPS and you think it’s a good argument to say that is a good measuring stick compared to the best offenses in baseball? That’s a very disingenuous argument you are trying to make but the best counter to it? Runs scored Yankees: 553 Orioles: 537 Dodgers: 528 Phillies: 516 Brewers: 506 Astros: 495 Guardians: 486 Cubs: 441 Yes, if the Cubs had scored 15-20% more runs this season I bet they’d be in much better shape. But again, ignoring all of that even, the question is how do the Cubs solidify their lineup from here? There are no openings. We’ve locked down our entire diamond sans catcher for the next 2+ years at each position. And while you may feel good that we have three at or near .800 hitters in our lineup none of them are the glue you can put at the 2-3-4 spot and feel great about. Yankees: 1.034, 1.142 Orioles: .928, 3 others .830+ Dodgers: 1.043, .893, .888 Phillies: .933, .882 Astros: .979, 916 Guardians: .897, .882, 3 others .830+ Brewers: Unique example, without Yelich no one over .800 What was the point you were trying to make? Welcome to my world when it comes to Batman.... now post the records of those teams. This is why I argue in circles with him and a few others about why having superstars on your roster is important. |
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Post by skokiejoe on Jul 30, 2024 12:43:30 GMT -5
Cubs will receive infielder Ben Cowles and right-hander Jack Neely Bat and Steve please take your debate elsewhere |
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Post by skokiejoe on Jul 30, 2024 12:47:40 GMT -5
Neely AAA 1-1 era 2.81
Cowles AA .294/.376/.848 Currently on the 7 day IL
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Post by kfidd on Jul 30, 2024 12:49:14 GMT -5
I’ll bow out from the topic. Just want to clarify that I don’t believe that those three guys (in this case Suzuki, Busch, and Paredes) are the problem. The problem is that they aren’t good enough to carry an offense while the others are all wayyyy below where we need them to be. But since they are all multi-year commitments where/when/how/why are we going to improve in the ways we need to if we want to become competitive?
Bat, I’ve been snippier than I would like to admit these last couple days, especially with some of your opinions. If it ever came off in bad faith I apologize, that was not the intention.
Moving on. Trade deadline. Leiter Jr gone, now make more go gone gone please.
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Post by TheChico on Jul 30, 2024 12:51:33 GMT -5
Good return for Leiter, Neely near MLB ready and Rule 5 Eligble this offseason, so he could be called up to replace Leiter.
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Post by fine09 on Jul 30, 2024 13:00:51 GMT -5
Neely AAA 1-1 era 2.81 Cowles AA .294/.376/.848 Currently on the 7 day IL That return surprises me - the Yankees 22nd & 29th best prospect for a guy we DFA'd in early 2023 with all 29 teams passing on him. |
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Post by fine09 on Jul 30, 2024 13:03:58 GMT -5
sounds like Yankees fans are not happy with this trade Good! |
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 30, 2024 13:09:45 GMT -5
With what teams are paying today for pitchers, IN MY OPINION, the Cubs absolutely fucked up not pushing back Taillon's start. Who cares if the offers were low yesterday. That was "yesterday. We live in a different world today". This is no hate on Taillon, but selling at peak value should have been the goal here and if not, he makes his start tonight.
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Post by fine09 on Jul 30, 2024 13:10:01 GMT -5
Good return for Leiter, Neely near MLB ready and Rule 5 Eligble this offseason, so he could be called up to replace Leiter. At first glance to a Yankee fan it probably looks like a serious overpay but once they dig in to his stats they will see that he is averaging 1-1/2 K's per inning & can get lefties out too. His FIP & WHIP are also strong & they will be thankful that they traded for him soon enough. |
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Post by fine09 on Jul 30, 2024 13:14:53 GMT -5
With what teams are paying today for pitchers, IN MY OPINION, the Cubs absolutely fucked up not pushing back Taillon's start. Who cares if the offers were low yesterday. That was "yesterday. We live in a different world today". This is no hate on Taillon, but selling at peak value should have been the goal here and if not, he makes his start tonight. I tend to agree with your sentiment there but they can still trade him today after giving up 5 runs on 2 pitches yesterday without destroying his value. I add some cash to go with him to get a decent MLB player back or at a minimum a prospect ready now. I don't like the 1 MPH drop this year on his fastball which I just read about this AM.. |
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Post by fine09 on Jul 30, 2024 13:17:34 GMT -5
On my MLB top 30 prospect list I still see the Cubs having 7 in the top 100 with all of them having a 55 overall value. Is that not correct?? I’m trying to figure out when or even if our strong farm system will be able to make meaningful improvements on the Cubs with so many positions seemingly locked in for the foreseeable future. More development from PCA will help and some young pitchers will develop but as far as more pop in the lineup I don’t see where it’ll come from. With PCA hopefully our center fielder of the future and corner outfielder spots locked in and so many NTC contracts on position players how or when will our power hitting prospects break into the lineup? There aren’t many positions opening in the near future, catcher for sure but that’s where we don’t have a lot of good prospects. I just can’t see where enough help to make a major difference is going to come from. I can only hope our front office is smarter than me ( wouldn’t take much) and has a brilliant master plan Then you have to trade them for value to other teams which also gets you full value before they prove themselves or no at the MLB level. |
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 30, 2024 13:20:09 GMT -5
With what teams are paying today for pitchers, IN MY OPINION, the Cubs absolutely fucked up not pushing back Taillon's start. Who cares if the offers were low yesterday. That was "yesterday. We live in a different world today". This is no hate on Taillon, but selling at peak value should have been the goal here and if not, he makes his start tonight. I tend to agree with your sentiment there but they can still trade him today after giving up 5 runs on 2 pitches yesterday without destroying his value. I add some cash to go with him to get a decent MLB player back or at a minimum a prospect ready now. I don't like the 1 MPH drop this year on his fastball which I just read about this AM.. For me, personally, I'd just won't have even allowed yesterdays start to be in today's conversation. If he's not traded fine, I mean, I'd be curious what the offer were because the reports are teams called. And I'm sure they did. regardless if they progressed to Taillon waiving his NTC or not. For all we know, Taillon went to the Cubs last week and said, "if any of these teams call on my NTC I will NOT waive it", and the Cubs would have to relay that to those teams. I'm also curious who those 10 teams are. |
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Post by TheChico on Jul 30, 2024 13:20:37 GMT -5
Good return for Leiter, Neely near MLB ready and Rule 5 Eligble this offseason, so he could be called up to replace Leiter. At first glance to a Yankee fan it probably looks like a serious overpay but once they dig in to his stats they will see that he is averaging 1-1/2 K's per inning & can get lefties out too. His FIP & WHIP are also strong & they will be thankful that they traded for him soon enough. Yankees are trying to win now and Leiter is good add for them, they will be happy with him Neely has really nice upside and likely be pitching in Chicago this season and part of the bullpen next season, still fits Jed's narrative. They might has also found Madrigal replacement too. |
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 30, 2024 13:22:17 GMT -5
On twitter a scout with the Yankees said, "we won't miss what we gave up for Leiter Jr". I think both teams just moved guys, no one over paid, no one is wrong in this trade, IMO
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Post by fine09 on Jul 30, 2024 13:26:09 GMT -5
I tend to agree with your sentiment there but they can still trade him today after giving up 5 runs on 2 pitches yesterday without destroying his value. I add some cash to go with him to get a decent MLB player back or at a minimum a prospect ready now. I don't like the 1 MPH drop this year on his fastball which I just read about this AM.. For me, personally, I'd just won't have even allowed yesterdays start to be in today's conversation. If he's not traded fine, I mean, I'd be curious what the offer were because the reports are teams called. And I'm sure they did. regardless if they progressed to Taillon waiving his NTC or not. For all we know, Taillon went to the Cubs last week and said, "if any of these teams call on my NTC I will NOT waive it", and the Cubs would have to relay that to those teams. I'm also curious who those 10 teams are. I understand that & I also wonder how the 10 team NTC played into this, especially if he wanted to avoid the East coast (and who would blame him - Sorry Bat..). |
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