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Post by batman66 on Jul 29, 2024 21:14:23 GMT -5
Cubs fall back to six games under. Not sure what we are waiting for with the sell off. Jed is too passive and accepting of mediocrity. Depth and value are his buzz words. Clear the glut. Most trades arent made until deadline day and often up to the last minute so hes not waiting on anything and nobody ever said there would be a sell off. What hes done so far is exactly what he said the focus would be. |
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Post by kfidd on Jul 29, 2024 23:32:16 GMT -5
Seems like all he’s got right now is a bloated roster filled with meh veterans who are all mostly still under contract for next season at minimum. For all the talk of our vaunted farm system it just dropped to 7th in FanGraphs mid season update and for those who remain near the top of the list there’s little to no room for any of them to promote to.
Odd way of building for 2025 to me.
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Post by batman66 on Jul 30, 2024 7:06:27 GMT -5
Seems like all he’s got right now is a bloated roster filled with meh veterans who are all mostly still under contract for next season at minimum. For all the talk of our vaunted farm system it just dropped to 7th in FanGraphs mid season update and for those who remain there’s little to no room for any of them to promote to. Odd way of building for 2025 to me. Bush and PCA graduated off the prospect list so when you drop off a #1 and a #4 it's not unusual to drop, especially when both were top 50 in baseball |
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Post by kfidd on Jul 30, 2024 7:26:05 GMT -5
Seems like all he’s got right now is a bloated roster filled with meh veterans who are all mostly still under contract for next season at minimum. For all the talk of our vaunted farm system it just dropped to 7th in FanGraphs mid season update and for those who remain there’s little to no room for any of them to promote to. Odd way of building for 2025 to me. Bush and PCA graduated off the prospect list so when you drop off a #1 and a #4 it's not unusual to drop, especially when both were top 50 in baseball You are right that their removal from prospect status lowers the system value but the bigger reason for the rankings drop is we now have zero 55 FV ranked prospects in the system. That doesn’t mean that they can’t be meaningful contributors in the future but it’s also not like we can point to our system and say “look, there he is. That’s the guy, the answer to our prayers.” But the other problem is by not selling what you can Jed has essentially dug his feet in with multi year commitments at the following positions: C 1B Busch - .804 OPS 2B Hoerner - .668 OPS 3B Paredes - .792 OPS SS Swanson - .632 OPS RF Bellinger - .741 OPS CF PCA - .550 OPS LF Happ - .772 OPS DH Suzuki - .815 OPS I don’t care when a rookie struggles, PCA is fine for now. And even ignoring how underwhelming Hoerner, Swanson, and Bellinger in particular have all been. The bigger standout there should be that while there is some goodish, some okayish, there is no great and there is no room to add a great. The Cubs strategy for offensive improvement in 2025 looks like it’s going to be “whelp, I sure hope these guys can rebound from their off years.” Super inspiring. Its early. A lot can change. Hoerner and/or Bellinger can be moved over the next 10 hours. There’s an offseason ahead. But this is Hoyer and this is our front office we are talking about. Someone yesterday was saying they’d rather have Jed and his smart depth building plan than the clowns like me calling for him to grow balls and make impactful moves. “Brains over balls.” Jed’s big brains don’t seem capable of moving us beyond mediocrity right now. I think what Hoyer has done is built a roster that he believes should be better than it actually is but when it isn’t he doesn’t look to change things up and move on from his mistakes, instead adding a bit of fringe depth here and there while doubling down on his original roster vision. There is where the stubborn Jed mantra came from over the past couple years. Rather than trying to build a winner he builds a roster that he hopes can win and when it doesn’t he doesn’t make meaningful changes, just hopes for the rebound. That’s why I don’t trust his pre-deadline statement about building for 2025 and beyond. He hasn’t proven capable of doing that in any meaningful way. But he has sub-10 hours to at least inspire some positivity and hope so fingers crossed. |
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Post by okeecub on Jul 30, 2024 7:35:42 GMT -5
Seems like all he’s got right now is a bloated roster filled with meh veterans who are all mostly still under contract for next season at minimum. For all the talk of our vaunted farm system it just dropped to 7th in FanGraphs mid season update and for those who remain there’s little to no room for any of them to promote to. Odd way of building for 2025 to me. Bush and PCA graduated off the prospect list so when you drop off a #1 and a #4 it's not unusual to drop, especially when both were top 50 in baseball I think Hodge, Brown &Wicks have pretty much found their way to the Cubs roster too so quite a few players might not be still considered part of the farm system |
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 30, 2024 7:42:33 GMT -5
Unless a miracle happens this will be 4 straight years of no postseason. 5 year rebuild as I had said, unfortunately now it's looking more like a 7 year rebuild. Team 2027!!!
Jed is now 279-315 as POBO for the Cubs with what looks like could be 3 of 4 seasons under .500.
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Post by batman66 on Jul 30, 2024 8:34:27 GMT -5
Unless a miracle happens this will be 4 straight years of no postseason. 5 year rebuild as I had said, unfortunately now it's looking more like a 7 year rebuild. Team 2027!!! Jed is now 279-315 as POBO for the Cubs with what looks like could be 3 of 4 seasons under .500. So any season that there are no playoffs is looked at as a rebuild season ? I think your definition of rebuild is different than most. To me the rebuild years are years when they don't try to win and just focus on flipping players and stocking the farm , not the amount of years they don't make the post season. 3 of 4 seasons under .500 , 2 of them were what I term rebuild seasons and last year was a transition out of the rebuild type season that they should have kept moving forward from but failed to do so , so this season to me is the only real season that's a problem. It was a 2 year rebuild where they missed the playoffs by 1 game in year 3 and should have made the post season in this season , year 4. |
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Post by batman66 on Jul 30, 2024 8:37:55 GMT -5
Bush and PCA graduated off the prospect list so when you drop off a #1 and a #4 it's not unusual to drop, especially when both were top 50 in baseball You are right that their removal from prospect status lowers the system value but the bigger reason for the rankings drop is we now have zero 55 FV ranked prospects in the system. That doesn’t mean that they can’t be meaningful contributors in the future but it’s also not like we can point to our system and say “look, there he is. That’s the guy, the answer to our prayers.” But the other problem is by not selling what you can Jed has essentially dug his feet in with multi year commitments at the following positions: C 1B Busch - .804 OPS 2B Hoerner - .668 OPS 3B Paredes - .792 OPS SS Swanson - .632 OPS RF Bellinger - .741 OPS CF PCA - .550 OPS LF Happ - .772 OPS DH Suzuki - .815 OPS I don’t care when a rookie struggles, PCA is fine for now. And even ignoring how underwhelming Hoerner, Swanson, and Bellinger in particular have all been. The bigger standout there should be that while there is some goodish, some okayish, there is no great and there is no room to add a great. The Cubs strategy for offensive improvement in 2025 looks like it’s going to be “whelp, I sure hope these guys can rebound from their off years.” Super inspiring. Its early. A lot can change. Hoerner and/or Bellinger can be moved over the next 10 hours. There’s an offseason ahead. But this is Hoyer and this is our front office we are talking about. Someone yesterday was saying they’d rather have Jed and his smart depth building plan than the clowns like me calling for him to grow balls and make impactful moves. “Brains over balls.” Jed’s big brains don’t seem capable of moving us beyond mediocrity right now. I think what Hoyer has done is built a roster that he believes should be better than it actually is but when it isn’t he doesn’t look to change things up and move on from his mistakes, instead adding a bit of fringe depth here and there while doubling down on his original roster vision. There is where the stubborn Jed mantra came from over the past couple years. Rather than trying to build a winner he builds a roster that he hopes can win and when it doesn’t he doesn’t make meaningful changes, just hopes for the rebound. That’s why I don’t trust his pre-deadline statement about building for 2025 and beyond. He hasn’t proven capable of doing that in any meaningful way. But he has sub-10 hours to at least inspire some positivity and hope so fingers crossed. << That’s why I don’t trust his pre-deadline statement about building for 2025 and beyond>> Even though the two moves he's made so far are all about that? |
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 30, 2024 8:51:13 GMT -5
Unless a miracle happens this will be 4 straight years of no postseason. 5 year rebuild as I had said, unfortunately now it's looking more like a 7 year rebuild. Team 2027!!! Jed is now 279-315 as POBO for the Cubs with what looks like could be 3 of 4 seasons under .500. So any season that there are no playoffs is looked at as a rebuild season ? I think your definition of rebuild is different than most. To me the rebuild years are years when they don't try to win and just focus on flipping players and stocking the farm , not the amount of years they don't make the post season. 3 of 4 seasons under .500 , 2 of them were what I term rebuild seasons and last year was a transition out of the rebuild type season that they should have kept moving forward from but failed to do so , so this season to me is the only real season that's a problem. It was a 2 year rebuild where they missed the playoffs by 1 game in year 3 and should have made the post season in this season , year 4. So much unnecessary typing Batman. Yes, this team has not opened it's window yet. No it was not a 2 year rebuild, stop it. |
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Post by kfidd on Jul 30, 2024 8:55:02 GMT -5
You are right that their removal from prospect status lowers the system value but the bigger reason for the rankings drop is we now have zero 55 FV ranked prospects in the system. That doesn’t mean that they can’t be meaningful contributors in the future but it’s also not like we can point to our system and say “look, there he is. That’s the guy, the answer to our prayers.” But the other problem is by not selling what you can Jed has essentially dug his feet in with multi year commitments at the following positions: C 1B Busch - .804 OPS 2B Hoerner - .668 OPS 3B Paredes - .792 OPS SS Swanson - .632 OPS RF Bellinger - .741 OPS CF PCA - .550 OPS LF Happ - .772 OPS DH Suzuki - .815 OPS I don’t care when a rookie struggles, PCA is fine for now. And even ignoring how underwhelming Hoerner, Swanson, and Bellinger in particular have all been. The bigger standout there should be that while there is some goodish, some okayish, there is no great and there is no room to add a great. The Cubs strategy for offensive improvement in 2025 looks like it’s going to be “whelp, I sure hope these guys can rebound from their off years.” Super inspiring. Its early. A lot can change. Hoerner and/or Bellinger can be moved over the next 10 hours. There’s an offseason ahead. But this is Hoyer and this is our front office we are talking about. Someone yesterday was saying they’d rather have Jed and his smart depth building plan than the clowns like me calling for him to grow balls and make impactful moves. “Brains over balls.” Jed’s big brains don’t seem capable of moving us beyond mediocrity right now. I think what Hoyer has done is built a roster that he believes should be better than it actually is but when it isn’t he doesn’t look to change things up and move on from his mistakes, instead adding a bit of fringe depth here and there while doubling down on his original roster vision. There is where the stubborn Jed mantra came from over the past couple years. Rather than trying to build a winner he builds a roster that he hopes can win and when it doesn’t he doesn’t make meaningful changes, just hopes for the rebound. That’s why I don’t trust his pre-deadline statement about building for 2025 and beyond. He hasn’t proven capable of doing that in any meaningful way. But he has sub-10 hours to at least inspire some positivity and hope so fingers crossed. << That’s why I don’t trust his pre-deadline statement about building for 2025 and beyond>> Even though the two moves he's made so far are all about that? Pearson is the furthest thing from a lock for any meaningful production neither today nor in the future. Are there reasons to be optimistic? Sure. There are even more to not be. Paredes we can continue to go in circles with. I believe Morel and Bigge will provide more production than Paredes will for 2025 and beyond and that’s what Hoyer’s statement was all about: the future. We won’t know on Paredes until he has the chance to prove it outside of the Trop. You believe he will. I have my doubts. We had the same discussion about Bellinger and now he’s a problem we are trying to navigate. |
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Post by kfidd on Jul 30, 2024 8:58:32 GMT -5
Unless a miracle happens this will be 4 straight years of no postseason. 5 year rebuild as I had said, unfortunately now it's looking more like a 7 year rebuild. Team 2027!!! Jed is now 279-315 as POBO for the Cubs with what looks like could be 3 of 4 seasons under .500. So any season that there are no playoffs is looked at as a rebuild season ? I think your definition of rebuild is different than most. To me the rebuild years are years when they don't try to win and just focus on flipping players and stocking the farm , not the amount of years they don't make the post season. 3 of 4 seasons under .500 , 2 of them were what I term rebuild seasons and last year was a transition out of the rebuild type season that they should have kept moving forward from but failed to do so , so this season to me is the only real season that's a problem. It was a 2 year rebuild where they missed the playoffs by 1 game in year 3 and should have made the post season in this season , year 4. That problem you acknowledge at the end is a big one though that I don’t believe you are putting enough weight in. The team didn’t just miss the playoffs last season, they disappeared for a six week stretch when it mattered most and have continued that level of ill play into this season. We are not trending upwards right now, we are trending downwards, and we have been for almost a full season’s worth of games going back to mid/late August last year. That’s a problem and one that needs to be reckoned with. |
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 30, 2024 9:07:48 GMT -5
The problem with Batman's point of view on everyone the Cubs acquire is that it's always a great move by the Cubs, until it isn't. He offers no constructive criticism about things that seemingly don't make sense for the Cubs. One Paredes I more side with him, I think Paredes proves to be better/more productive for the Cubs than Morel/prospects will be, even with the lack of pressure to perform in Tampa vs the pressure to perform in Chicago.
People say I take every opportunity to slam the Cubs, but have they proven my concerns wrong? I said I liked the Busch trade as long as it wasn't the biggest move of last offseason. It wasn't, they added Belly back and I bumped my win total back up from 77 to 84/85. I was worried about PCA, I'm still worried. I had concerns about getting Swanson over Correa and that the Cubs were settling on cost, looks like that was correct.
I want our Cubs to operate like the financial power house in the NL Central like the Dodgers do in the NL West and they don't. I'm told nothing is guaranteed and that's how I should look at adding big time players. This has been Cubs fan mentality for years, "that's way too much money, we're better off spending it on 3 players vs 1 player". Well here we are, anther dud of a season.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 30, 2024 9:10:34 GMT -5
It's funny how Batman proudly acknowledges how the Cubs missed the postseason by 1 game, yet teams that make it to the postseason every year, but don't win, is meaningless. Weird Cub fan mentality.... 279-315 in 3+ years
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Post by batman66 on Jul 30, 2024 10:26:46 GMT -5
So any season that there are no playoffs is looked at as a rebuild season ? I think your definition of rebuild is different than most. To me the rebuild years are years when they don't try to win and just focus on flipping players and stocking the farm , not the amount of years they don't make the post season. 3 of 4 seasons under .500 , 2 of them were what I term rebuild seasons and last year was a transition out of the rebuild type season that they should have kept moving forward from but failed to do so , so this season to me is the only real season that's a problem. It was a 2 year rebuild where they missed the playoffs by 1 game in year 3 and should have made the post season in this season , year 4. That problem you acknowledge at the end is a big one though that I don’t believe you are putting enough weight in. The team didn’t just miss the playoffs last season, they disappeared for a six week stretch when it mattered most and have continued that level of ill play into this season. We are not trending upwards right now, we are trending downwards, and we have been for almost a full season’s worth of games going back to mid/late August last year. That’s a problem and one that needs to be reckoned with. I'm not missing anything , I know where they are trending and that doesn't classify this as still being in a rebuild in my opinion. Yes in 2023 and this season they should have been winning more and moving forward , the rebuild did not take off running like we hoped they made decent progress last season and were contending for a playoff spot until the last day. I know they were not trending in the right direction at playoff time, but nonetheless , they missed it by 1 game and this season they've stumbled backwards and it needs to be fixed |
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Post by batman66 on Jul 30, 2024 10:35:11 GMT -5
It's funny how Batman proudly acknowledges how the Cubs missed the postseason by 1 game, yet teams that make it to the postseason every year, but don't win, is meaningless. Weird Cub fan mentality.... 279-315 in 3+ years You really do have comprehension problems , and severe ones. I never said anything close to teams who make it and don't win being meaningless. You have made comments about the past core and how they only got one WS out of them and said the other seasons were failures because they didn't win again and I pointed out they still made the playoffs after that but you didn't care because they didn't win it all , so YOU have the mentality that if you don't win it all , it's a fail. So that's why I bring up to YOU about the other teams you praise about who are making the playoffs but not winning it all as the great teams. If other teams do it , your praise them If the Cubs do it and don't win , it's a fail. I've said I think it's just as big a fail or even more so that a team making it with 250-300 million payrolls year after year can't win than it is for the Cubs and that's where I say then they are really no better if they are not winning it all ............it's all bases on YOUR win it all or it's a fail mind frame. |
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Post by fine09 on Jul 30, 2024 10:42:41 GMT -5
Bush and PCA graduated off the prospect list so when you drop off a #1 and a #4 it's not unusual to drop, especially when both were top 50 in baseball You are right that their removal from prospect status lowers the system value but the bigger reason for the rankings drop is we now have zero 55 FV ranked prospects in the system. That doesn’t mean that they can’t be meaningful contributors in the future but it’s also not like we can point to our system and say “look, there he is. That’s the guy, the answer to our prayers.” But the other problem is by not selling what you can Jed has essentially dug his feet in with multi year commitments at the following positions: C 1B Busch - .804 OPS 2B Hoerner - .668 OPS 3B Paredes - .792 OPS SS Swanson - .632 OPS RF Bellinger - .741 OPS CF PCA - .550 OPS LF Happ - .772 OPS DH Suzuki - .815 OPS I don’t care when a rookie struggles, PCA is fine for now. And even ignoring how underwhelming Hoerner, Swanson, and Bellinger in particular have all been. The bigger standout there should be that while there is some goodish, some okayish, there is no great and there is no room to add a great. The Cubs strategy for offensive improvement in 2025 looks like it’s going to be “whelp, I sure hope these guys can rebound from their off years.” Super inspiring. Its early. A lot can change. Hoerner and/or Bellinger can be moved over the next 10 hours. There’s an offseason ahead. But this is Hoyer and this is our front office we are talking about. Someone yesterday was saying they’d rather have Jed and his smart depth building plan than the clowns like me calling for him to grow balls and make impactful moves. “Brains over balls.” Jed’s big brains don’t seem capable of moving us beyond mediocrity right now. I think what Hoyer has done is built a roster that he believes should be better than it actually is but when it isn’t he doesn’t look to change things up and move on from his mistakes, instead adding a bit of fringe depth here and there while doubling down on his original roster vision. There is where the stubborn Jed mantra came from over the past couple years. Rather than trying to build a winner he builds a roster that he hopes can win and when it doesn’t he doesn’t make meaningful changes, just hopes for the rebound. That’s why I don’t trust his pre-deadline statement about building for 2025 and beyond. He hasn’t proven capable of doing that in any meaningful way. But he has sub-10 hours to at least inspire some positivity and hope so fingers crossed. On my MLB top 30 prospect list I still see the Cubs having 7 in the top 100 with all of them having a 55 overall value. Is that not correct?? |
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Post by irishcubfan on Jul 30, 2024 10:43:20 GMT -5
It's funny how Batman proudly acknowledges how the Cubs missed the postseason by 1 game, yet teams that make it to the postseason every year, but don't win, is meaningless. Weird Cub fan mentality.... 279-315 in 3+ years You really do have comprehension problems , and severe ones. I never said anything close to teams who make it and don't win being meaningless. You have made comments about the past core and how they only got one WS out of them and said the other seasons were failures because they didn't win again and I pointed out they still made the playoffs after that but you didn't care because they didn't win it all , so YOU have the mentality that if you don't win it all , it's a fail. So that's why I bring up to YOU about the other teams you praise about who are making the playoffs but not winning it all as the great teams. If other teams do it , your praise them If the Cubs do it and don't win , it's a fail. I've said I think it's just as big a fail or even more so that a team making it with 250-300 million payrolls year after year can't win than it is for the Cubs and that's where I say then they are really no better if they are not winning it all ............it's all bases on YOUR win it all or it's a fail mind frame. The problem with the win it all mindset is the absurdity of the end of the season tournament and how many teams are allowed in. It isn't the best team or teams worthy anymore, instead we are stuck watching nonsense like last year. Which it turns cheapens the entire sport both reg and post season. |
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Post by fine09 on Jul 30, 2024 10:45:28 GMT -5
Unless a miracle happens this will be 4 straight years of no postseason. 5 year rebuild as I had said, unfortunately now it's looking more like a 7 year rebuild. Team 2027!!! Jed is now 279-315 as POBO for the Cubs with what looks like could be 3 of 4 seasons under .500. So in your mind finishing terribly in 2023 and missing the playoffs by a SINGLE game still qualifies as a rebuild year? That explains allot.. |
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Post by cfin on Jul 30, 2024 10:48:42 GMT -5
I think what Hoyer has done is built a roster that he believes should be better than it actually is but when it isn’t he doesn’t look to change things up and move on from his mistakes, instead adding a bit of fringe depth here and there while doubling down on his original roster vision. There is where the stubborn Jed mantra came from over the past couple years. Rather than trying to build a winner he builds a roster that he hopes can win and when it doesn’t he doesn’t make meaningful changes, just hopes for the rebound. That’s why I don’t trust his pre-deadline statement about building for 2025 and beyond. He hasn’t proven capable of doing that in any meaningful way. But he has sub-10 hours to at least inspire some positivity and hope so fingers crossed. The damning part is that he activated Bellinger yesterday, the only game before the trade deadline, and didn't play him. What was the point of activating him? |
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Post by batman66 on Jul 30, 2024 10:49:32 GMT -5
The problem with Batman's point of view on everyone the Cubs acquire is that it's always a great move by the Cubs, until it isn't. He offers no constructive criticism about things that seemingly don't make sense for the Cubs. One Paredes I more side with him, I think Paredes proves to be better/more productive for the Cubs than Morel/prospects will be, even with the lack of pressure to perform in Tampa vs the pressure to perform in Chicago. People say I take every opportunity to slam the Cubs, but have they proven my concerns wrong? I said I liked the Busch trade as long as it wasn't the biggest move of last offseason. It wasn't, they added Belly back and I bumped my win total back up from 77 to 84/85. I was worried about PCA, I'm still worried. I had concerns about getting Swanson over Correa and that the Cubs were settling on cost, looks like that was correct. I want our Cubs to operate like the financial power house in the NL Central like the Dodgers do in the NL West and they don't. I'm told nothing is guaranteed and that's how I should look at adding big time players. This has been Cubs fan mentality for years, "that's way too much money, we're better off spending it on 3 players vs 1 player". Well here we are, anther dud of a season. <<People say I take every opportunity to slam the Cubs, but have they proven my concerns wrong? >> Yes , many times over, you just never see and admit to anything. <<I had concerns about getting Swanson over Correa and that the Cubs were settling on cost, looks like that was correct.>> Last season it was not correct , this season it is , more seasons to come on their contracts , so far the score would be 1-1 . <<I want our Cubs to operate like the financial power house in the NL Central like the Dodgers do in the NL West and they don't.>> Lol, it's called reality , we ALL realize they are never going to spend like LA , just like 28 other teams don't so that's why I don't bitch about it , I want them to do it too ....but I know they are not. You are all about megastar players, big contracts and spending , and that's understandable and cool but let me ask you this , what will you think of the Yankees or Dodgers if they don't win it all this season ? Yankees have a 297 million payroll right now , have two of the best sluggers in the game Judge and Soto and have been as bad as the Cubs have been the last 2 months and are in kind of a panic mode right now. LA has the games best player and a payroll over 300 million . I know the answer possibly , it's that they try harder to win and I can't argue that. I'd love the Cubs to spend more and I'm sure everybody else on here does , but again , I know they won't so I don't waste my time and energy bitching about it. |
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