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Post by kfidd on Feb 26, 2024 8:42:15 GMT -5
Yeah, there is more to consider here than just the straight up numbers. The only way Bellinger loses on this deal is he if straight up be stanking like 21-22 again (which no one expects or predicts) or if he misses a gross amount of time with injuries. He’s guaranteed either 1/30 or 2/60 with a chance to opt out after each season and enter the market by age 30 again. This is a win for him.
That doesn’t mean it’s the homerun he wanted that is both big dollars and big years but it does give him the short term win and a chance to still go out and earn that homerun.
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Post by batman66 on Feb 26, 2024 8:51:56 GMT -5
Yeah, there is more to consider here than just the straight up numbers. The only way Bellinger loses on this deal is he if straight up be stanking like 21-22 again (which no one expects or predicts) or if he misses a gross amount of time with injuries. He’s guaranteed either 1/30 or 2/60 with a chance to opt out after each season and enter the market by age 30 again. This is a win for him. That doesn’t mean it’s the homerun he wanted that is both big dollars and big years but it does give him the short term win and a chance to still go out and earn that homerun. Yep , can't look at it from the perspective from what Boras was asking because nobody was going to be paying that. Not sure why it took so long for Boras to realize that since his usual teams he can use as pawns were out a long time ago. But Cody should be happy with this deal , and Jed's gotta be fucking exstatic. |
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Post by fine09 on Feb 26, 2024 12:23:02 GMT -5
I disagree. No way Belli should have to prove himself for a second year so this deal isn’t a win for him. I am guessing he had a few 5-110 or 6-130 offers but this Cubs deal is better for him with the guaranteed 80 & then get another one if he plays well. Fantastic for the Cubs & just ok for Cody.. But he should be able to do better than 5-110 or 6-130 if he has a 2024 similar to his 2023. His market was always hard to predict but the first thing we would hear was although he had a great season it was going to be hard for teams to ignore the previous two horrible ones. Now if he can follow up on that 2023 with another season like it , that should erase those doubts and he really should be able to get a Swanson type deal or better I would think. The probable biggest reason he ended up like this is the Soto trade. Everybody pretty much had him in Yankee pinstripes for 2024 almost the second he signed with the Cubs last winter. The Yankees being out crashed his market and Boras could not use them as a ploy and then the other teams who had legit interest , the Giants and Angels I don't think he had any aspirations of playing for either and then the Giants were out and the ridiculous price Boras put on him took the Jays out. Its not the 200+ million deal , but I think it's still a great deal for him. Brings him back to where it seems he wanted to be and 30 million is a nice amount and if he does want to opt out he can and do this all over again , but after this winter and how things went I'm not 100% convinced he's a given to opt out. On the Cubs end of it , there is not one thing I can say that I don't like. For what they are trying to do, this is a perfect deal . Quite a few writeers saying they think he stays with the Cubs for 2 years @ 30 mil per because no problem hitting the market again at age 30 if he has another 2 very good seasons. The Cubs would love for that to be the case.. |
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Post by batman66 on Feb 26, 2024 12:47:54 GMT -5
But he should be able to do better than 5-110 or 6-130 if he has a 2024 similar to his 2023. His market was always hard to predict but the first thing we would hear was although he had a great season it was going to be hard for teams to ignore the previous two horrible ones. Now if he can follow up on that 2023 with another season like it , that should erase those doubts and he really should be able to get a Swanson type deal or better I would think. The probable biggest reason he ended up like this is the Soto trade. Everybody pretty much had him in Yankee pinstripes for 2024 almost the second he signed with the Cubs last winter. The Yankees being out crashed his market and Boras could not use them as a ploy and then the other teams who had legit interest , the Giants and Angels I don't think he had any aspirations of playing for either and then the Giants were out and the ridiculous price Boras put on him took the Jays out. Its not the 200+ million deal , but I think it's still a great deal for him. Brings him back to where it seems he wanted to be and 30 million is a nice amount and if he does want to opt out he can and do this all over again , but after this winter and how things went I'm not 100% convinced he's a given to opt out. On the Cubs end of it , there is not one thing I can say that I don't like. For what they are trying to do, this is a perfect deal . Quite a few writeers saying they think he stays with the Cubs for 2 years @ 30 mil per because no problem hitting the market again at age 30 if he has another 2 very good seasons. The Cubs would love for that to be the case.. If the Cubs are a playoff team in 2024 he's probably not going to want to leave that scenario. 30 million a year is not shabby so yeah , it's not a given he opts out if he has a great season so I'd say it's probably more realistic we have him for 2 years and not just 1 more. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2024 12:49:35 GMT -5
Very happy Belly is back. Unfortunately for me I don’t think this salvages the offseason. Cubs still simply stayed put and didn’t do anything to really improve the roster besides hoping prospects and young players take those next steps which they may or may not. Biggest improve move was signing Counsel from the Brewers. I’m still pretty bearish on the off-season as a whole myself. I do think we’ve improved, just not really enough to the point I’m shouting from the rooftops. The key for me is the rotation, which while I like the Imanaga addition that’s more based on the friendly contract he received moreso than the fit. I don’t think we needed another ~4esque starter so much as a great pairing with Steele at the top and would feel a lot better if we had aggressively traded for that guy (Luzardo? Gilbert?). And while Imanaga is an unknown and could perform more admirably than expected I am concerned about his one notable flaw which historically does not translate well at all from the NPB -> MLB which is that home run rate. History tells us it will get worse and that would not be good. Time will tell though. But I will still call this a win and think the biggest moves we’ve made are the Counsel and Busch additions alongside the commitment to give Morel some run at third base. I think those three moves could pay off some big dividends for us. I tend to agree, while I sure as heck blasted Jed all off season if you take off the rose-colored glasses you can squint and see a potential division winner. And we should not forget we have the TDL to shore up any weaknesses. |
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Post by fine09 on Feb 26, 2024 14:27:50 GMT -5
I’m still pretty bearish on the off-season as a whole myself. I do think we’ve improved, just not really enough to the point I’m shouting from the rooftops. The key for me is the rotation, which while I like the Imanaga addition that’s more based on the friendly contract he received moreso than the fit. I don’t think we needed another ~4esque starter so much as a great pairing with Steele at the top and would feel a lot better if we had aggressively traded for that guy (Luzardo? Gilbert?). And while Imanaga is an unknown and could perform more admirably than expected I am concerned about his one notable flaw which historically does not translate well at all from the NPB -> MLB which is that home run rate. History tells us it will get worse and that would not be good. Time will tell though. But I will still call this a win and think the biggest moves we’ve made are the Counsel and Busch additions alongside the commitment to give Morel some run at third base. I think those three moves could pay off some big dividends for us. I tend to agree, while I sure as heck blasted Jed all off season if you take off the rose-colored glasses you can squint and see a potential division winner. And we should not forget we have the TDL to shore up any weaknesses. Plus the biggest potential for the Cubs right now is the top rated youngsters that aren't quite there yet but a few should be during this season. Hell, that's like acquiring numerous very good players in season for nothing. Oh yea.. |
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Post by batman66 on Feb 26, 2024 16:15:16 GMT -5
I tend to agree, while I sure as heck blasted Jed all off season if you take off the rose-colored glasses you can squint and see a potential division winner. And we should not forget we have the TDL to shore up any weaknesses. Plus the biggest potential for the Cubs right now is the top rated youngsters that aren't quite there yet but a few should be during this season. Hell, that's like acquiring numerous very good players in season for nothing. Oh yea.. That's why I was saying even before the Bellinger signing that I think they could be better this season. Last season they only had guys like Amaya,Morel and Mervis as near ready in house adds with most of the top prospects in A or AA , now most are in AAA or will be by mid season. Now they have guys like Canario, PCA, Caissie, Vasquez, possibly even Shaw, Traintos plus if any of the non roster invites stay and accept a spot in Iowa , decent veteran options like Alfaro, Smith, Peralta, Cooper but I doubt any of the last three would stay around if they don't make the 26 man and I only see Cooper with a chance to , and the others probably want to be on a major league roster. They are pretty damn deep. |
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Feb 28, 2024 11:02:52 GMT -5
Belly has officially arrived at camp this morning. He is now with the team.
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Post by batman66 on Feb 28, 2024 11:16:00 GMT -5
Belly has officially arrived at camp this morning. He is now with the team. Do you feel better about the Busch trade now wilth Belly on board ? |
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Post by kfidd on Feb 28, 2024 11:16:48 GMT -5
Belly has officially arrived at camp this morning. He is now with the team. Chances he makes today’s lineup? Too soon? Be cool to see him debut against the dreaded Brewers. |
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Post by batman66 on Feb 28, 2024 11:31:51 GMT -5
Belly has officially arrived at camp this morning. He is now with the team. Chances he makes today’s lineup? Too soon? Be cool to see him debut against the dreaded Brewers. I highly doubt it , although I'm sure he's been training on his own the whole time since he lives in Arizona. I think it might be 3-4 days before we see him in a game. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2024 11:31:58 GMT -5
Belly has officially arrived at camp this morning. He is now with the team. |
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Post by Mike on Feb 28, 2024 11:33:33 GMT -5
Belli at 1B vs LHP negates the need for Wisdom. Caissie and Murray have to be put on the roster next year to protect them from Rule 5, so that's a thing as well.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Feb 28, 2024 11:43:22 GMT -5
Belly has officially arrived at camp this morning. He is now with the team. Do you feel better about the Busch trade now wilth Belly on board ? Yes, 100%. I liked the Busch trade, but not for the reason I thought (replacing Belly). I'm glad me and others were wrong. |
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Feb 28, 2024 11:43:55 GMT -5
Chances he makes today’s lineup? Too soon? Be cool to see him debut against the dreaded Brewers. I highly doubt it , although I'm sure he's been training on his own the whole time since he lives in Arizona. I think it might be 3-4 days before we see him in a game. Agreed, maybe this weekend is what I'm thinking. |
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Post by batman66 on Feb 28, 2024 11:44:47 GMT -5
Belli at 1B vs LHP negates the need for Wisdom. Caissie and Murray have to be put on the roster next year to protect them from Rule 5, so that's a thing as well. No need for Wisdom , with what you said if it happens or if PCA is in AAA and Belly is in CF and Busch and Cooper are at 1b. Cooper is a better over all hitter and defender and likley cheaper ? Don't know what he'll be paid if he makes the team but Wisdom's 2.75 put a target on his back and with literally a handful of guys who can play 3b I don't see the need for him. He brings an element of power off the bench , but he's basically a 2 outcome hitter and I'd rather have more complete hitters on the bench. |
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Post by batman66 on Feb 28, 2024 11:49:33 GMT -5
Do you feel better about the Busch trade now wilth Belly on board ? Yes, 100%. I liked the Busch trade, but not for the reason I thought (replacing Belly). I'm glad me and others were wrong. Yep and this also takes a lot of pressure off Busch, he can just be himself and doesn't have to try to be the bat that replaced Belly. I remained confident they'd bring back Belly after the Busch trade , but that went out the window the day they signed Peralta and Smith , I thought that signaled the end of them trying to sign Belly. It's still going to be interesting to see who plays where. |
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Post by Mike on Feb 28, 2024 12:01:39 GMT -5
HUGE difference Busch hitting in the 5-6-7 instead of the 3-4-5
2B Hoerner
LF Happ (S) / Canario
RF Suzuki
CF Bellinger (L) / 1B
3B Morel / DH
1B Busch (L) / C Gomes
SS Swanson
DH Tauchman (L) / CF
C Amaya / 3B Madrigal
BN Wisdom
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Post by 2mileshighillini on Feb 28, 2024 14:13:42 GMT -5
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Post by trav768 on Feb 28, 2024 18:32:06 GMT -5
finally got a chance to watch the press conference. thought conference was for Bellinger and not Boras. Boras talked more than Cody
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