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Post by thisbuds4u on Feb 7, 2024 15:04:48 GMT -5
The Cubs may make a trade or two around the deadline but will it be for a player who can have an immediate impact on the team? And will he be a player on an expiring contract? I'm not a fan of trading away prospects and getting nothing in return for the following season. It's been a long time since the Cubs were involved in a "block-buster" trade and these little trades that Hoyer makes haven't produced shit and have cost the Cubs a number of prospects. Is Hoyer being handcuffed by Ricketts? I'm starting to believe Jed isn't the reason the Cubs aren't more involved in trades or the free agent market. The trade for Chapman on an expiring contract worked out pretty okay in my book.. Jed hasn’t been in a position to trade prospects for expiring deals yet because they haven’t been in position to win but they soon should be. That was almost 8 years ago and since then how many different closers have the Cubs gone through? Castellanos had a major impact when he was with the Cubs and he elected free agency and signed with the Reds. Sorry but I have a hard time believing the Reds can out-bid the Cubs if they were interested in keeping him.
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Post by batman66 on Feb 7, 2024 15:50:53 GMT -5
The trade for Chapman on an expiring contract worked out pretty okay in my book.. Jed hasn’t been in a position to trade prospects for expiring deals yet because they haven’t been in position to win but they soon should be. That was almost 8 years ago and since then how many different closers have the Cubs gone through? Castellanos had a major impact when he was with the Cubs and he elected free agency and signed with the Reds. Sorry but I have a hard time believing the Reds can out-bid the Cubs if they were interested in keeping him. Come on , it's years later and people still don't realize what was going on ? The Cubs finished 2019 the season they traded for Castellanos with a 239.9 luxury tax payroll which was 33.9 million over the luxury tax and 2nd highest in baseball. Seems like the plan at that time was to get back under the luxury tax for the 2020 season and the only large contracts coming off the books were Hamels and Zobrist so Catsellanos was going to be tough to find room for in the budget and the general perception was he was waiting for the Cubs to move around some money to be able to fit him in , and he did not sign with the Reds until Jan 27th which in off seasons other than this damn one was very late. Covid started erupting in the US in early Jan of 2020 about a month into the baseball off season and by the time players reported to spring training there was some uncertainty of what would happen. March 9 the league had a conference call on what to do and the league planned to continue spring training but already started to limit things like no media and only a couple days later some places started to ban large groupings of people and March 13 they tell players spring training games are canceled and they have the option to go home. Only a couple days later they announce the season won't start until atleast mid May and well Ricketts as a business man would starts to freak out and pretty much closed his wallet.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Feb 7, 2024 16:51:34 GMT -5
80 wins is UNDER.500... they were under .500 in 2021 and 2022. That would be 3 of 4 years. They should NOT be taking a step back in 2024. Talent has to produce for the next 2-3-4 years. We'll see. "You act like they said this is it, this is what we are going with , lets GO !" I'm acting like what's exactly on the roster right now. Let me ask you this , if they sign Bellinger, does your perception change ? Would you consider it taking a step forward now? I would , I would not be overjoyed with the off season , but an off season where they retained Belly, added Imanaga and Busch and Neris and to me most importantl move Counsell would be a solid off season. I never had the hope of Ohtani or Soto , so maybe my expectations were not as high. People keep ignoring that it's possible Counsell alone could make this team better. No dissing Rossy , I was a fan and think he will be a very good manager one day , but Counsell is on another level right now. "Let me ask you this , if they sign Bellinger, does your perception change ?" 100% it would change my perception and I think Belly is good for 4-5 wins. I'd bump up my 77 to to 82. But I don't know if I'd say step forward just yet. It makes them even IMO I guess I can live with that assuming Belly can repeat and some other guys can do a little better, like Swanson and not burn out. For me, at this point I'd like Belly and Chapman, bit both being Boras guys I don't think both come, let alone even Belly. Like I said before, I feel like the Busch trade ended Belly, but we will see.
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Post by thisbuds4u on Feb 7, 2024 16:52:38 GMT -5
That was almost 8 years ago and since then how many different closers have the Cubs gone through? Castellanos had a major impact when he was with the Cubs and he elected free agency and signed with the Reds. Sorry but I have a hard time believing the Reds can out-bid the Cubs if they were interested in keeping him. Come on , it's years later and people still don't realize what was going on ? The Cubs finished 2019 the season they traded for Castellanos with a 239.9 luxury tax payroll which was 33.9 million over the luxury tax and 2nd highest in baseball. Seems like the plan at that time was to get back under the luxury tax for the 2020 season and the only large contracts coming off the books were Hamels and Zobrist so Catsellanos was going to be tough to find room for in the budget and the general perception was he was waiting for the Cubs to move around some money to be able to fit him in , and he did not sign with the Reds until Jan 27th which in off seasons other than this damn one was very late. Covid started erupting in the US in early Jan of 2020 about a month into the baseball off season and by the time players reported to spring training there was some uncertainty of what would happen. March 9 the league had a conference call on what to do and the league planned to continue spring training but already started to limit things like no media and only a couple days later some places started to ban large groupings of people and March 13 they tell players spring training games are canceled and they have the option to go home. Only a couple days later they announce the season won't start until atleast mid May and well Ricketts as a business man would starts to freak out and pretty much closed his wallet. I do realize what's going on. It's right there in front of you. It appears Ricketts has put a lock on spending well after Covid. They pass on extensions, the free agents they do sign are mid-level or worse and the trades they make are for short-term players or minor leaguers. I just want the Cubs to pick a lane and go with it. If it's a youth movement, then play the damn kids. If build a team now, stop pissing away money on marginal players that eat up salary cap space.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Feb 7, 2024 16:54:52 GMT -5
Come on , it's years later and people still don't realize what was going on ? The Cubs finished 2019 the season they traded for Castellanos with a 239.9 luxury tax payroll which was 33.9 million over the luxury tax and 2nd highest in baseball. Seems like the plan at that time was to get back under the luxury tax for the 2020 season and the only large contracts coming off the books were Hamels and Zobrist so Catsellanos was going to be tough to find room for in the budget and the general perception was he was waiting for the Cubs to move around some money to be able to fit him in , and he did not sign with the Reds until Jan 27th which in off seasons other than this damn one was very late. Covid started erupting in the US in early Jan of 2020 about a month into the baseball off season and by the time players reported to spring training there was some uncertainty of what would happen. March 9 the league had a conference call on what to do and the league planned to continue spring training but already started to limit things like no media and only a couple days later some places started to ban large groupings of people and March 13 they tell players spring training games are canceled and they have the option to go home. Only a couple days later they announce the season won't start until atleast mid May and well Ricketts as a business man would starts to freak out and pretty much closed his wallet. I do realize what's going on. It's right there in front of you. It appears Ricketts has put a lock on spending well after Covid. They pass on extensions, the free agents they do sign are mid-level or worse and the trades they make are for short-term players or minor leaguers. I just want the Cubs to pick a lane and go with it. If it's a youth movement, then play the damn kids. If build a team now, stop pissing away money on marginal players that eat up salary cap space. Some people refuse to see it. Does Theo come across as a guy who quits while under contract? IMO that was totally Theo leaving because Tommy wouldn't let Theo work the way Theo works. Which is why Theo thought the way Tommy wanted to do things was perfect for Jed.
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Post by kfidd on Feb 7, 2024 17:12:01 GMT -5
Come on , it's years later and people still don't realize what was going on ? The Cubs finished 2019 the season they traded for Castellanos with a 239.9 luxury tax payroll which was 33.9 million over the luxury tax and 2nd highest in baseball. Seems like the plan at that time was to get back under the luxury tax for the 2020 season and the only large contracts coming off the books were Hamels and Zobrist so Catsellanos was going to be tough to find room for in the budget and the general perception was he was waiting for the Cubs to move around some money to be able to fit him in , and he did not sign with the Reds until Jan 27th which in off seasons other than this damn one was very late. Covid started erupting in the US in early Jan of 2020 about a month into the baseball off season and by the time players reported to spring training there was some uncertainty of what would happen. March 9 the league had a conference call on what to do and the league planned to continue spring training but already started to limit things like no media and only a couple days later some places started to ban large groupings of people and March 13 they tell players spring training games are canceled and they have the option to go home. Only a couple days later they announce the season won't start until atleast mid May and well Ricketts as a business man would starts to freak out and pretty much closed his wallet. I do realize what's going on. It's right there in front of you. It appears Ricketts has put a lock on spending well after Covid. They pass on extensions, the free agents they do sign are mid-level or worse and the trades they make are for short-term players or minor leaguers. I just want the Cubs to pick a lane and go with it. If it's a youth movement, then play the damn kids. If build a team now, stop pissing away money on marginal players that eat up salary cap space. Yup yup. You said the three key words right there: pick a lane. It’s the thing that makes a Bellinger reunion seem like a precursor to other moves. For as versatile as Bellinger can be across the outfield and at first base, there’s also no doubting that his addition complicates things again. Not in a bad way, rather in a way that has to indicate big time aggression rather than sign Bellinger and call the off-season quits. Why? Because the obvious fits for Bellinger in centerfield or first base. But if you get him for center it’s extremely difficult to imagine a pathway for Canario or PCA to get their licks. And they are as MLB ready as they’re going to get, hiding them at Iowa isn’t doing either favors at this point. At first base? You’re committing to two of Morel, Busch, Mervis either being unnecessarily back in the minors or punted off the roster. That can be acceptable, not because you would expect any to match Bellinger’s 2023 production but rather you could build a package towards getting an impact level player in return. But it does require that follow-up as you can’t stunt the growth of this wave of young players like they did last season. Pick a lane. Either sign Bellinger and make further aggressive moves beyond him or play the kids. You’re going to have to start doing the latter eventually anyways, and considering neither Ohtani nor Yamamoto are Cubs (or that Taillon is currently our number two starter 😭) I think there is plenty of validation for just playing the kids now. And if they choose that route it isn’t because they are settling, but rather it’s just a logical step forward for this organization, even if an unexciting one that likely is a .500ish team at best.
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Post by batman66 on Feb 7, 2024 18:43:54 GMT -5
Come on , it's years later and people still don't realize what was going on ? The Cubs finished 2019 the season they traded for Castellanos with a 239.9 luxury tax payroll which was 33.9 million over the luxury tax and 2nd highest in baseball. Seems like the plan at that time was to get back under the luxury tax for the 2020 season and the only large contracts coming off the books were Hamels and Zobrist so Catsellanos was going to be tough to find room for in the budget and the general perception was he was waiting for the Cubs to move around some money to be able to fit him in , and he did not sign with the Reds until Jan 27th which in off seasons other than this damn one was very late. Covid started erupting in the US in early Jan of 2020 about a month into the baseball off season and by the time players reported to spring training there was some uncertainty of what would happen. March 9 the league had a conference call on what to do and the league planned to continue spring training but already started to limit things like no media and only a couple days later some places started to ban large groupings of people and March 13 they tell players spring training games are canceled and they have the option to go home. Only a couple days later they announce the season won't start until atleast mid May and well Ricketts as a business man would starts to freak out and pretty much closed his wallet. I do realize what's going on. It's right there in front of you. It appears Ricketts has put a lock on spending well after Covid. They pass on extensions, the free agents they do sign are mid-level or worse and the trades they make are for short-term players or minor leaguers. I just want the Cubs to pick a lane and go with it. If it's a youth movement, then play the damn kids. If build a team now, stop pissing away money on marginal players that eat up salary cap space. Uh, they pass on extensions? They signed Happ and Hoerner to one. Who'd they pass on ? Contreras, the guy they didn't want anymore. They signed Suzuki,Stroman the signed Swanson, Taillon , Imanaga, all guys who were in the top 10ish free agent rankings and came close on Bogaerts according to Boras until SD blew everybodies offer away they were willing to go into the 500 million Ohtani area . Just because they don't blow by the luxury tax in a season where they are transitioning to being legit contenders doesn't mean he's put a lock on spending. They are not a team thats going to stay over the luxury tax and acrue the penalties and fines and loss of picks and slot money , doesn't mean there is a lock on spending. They are trying to do it in a way that doesn't also cripple them down the road like last time where no contracts were rolling off the books each year and the were over the luxury tax and had no room to sign guys to extensions. I wish they'd spend like LA and NY does, it's not going to happen so I accept it and try to understand why they do what they do. But I agree with the pick a lane comment , either sign Belly but I don't agree with if they do they need to keep going this off season , it all doesn't have to be done this year , a year where a LOT of potential help should be coming up from within. Sign Belly and roll with what they have and leave some wiggle room for the deadline.
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Post by fine09 on Feb 7, 2024 20:23:57 GMT -5
I do realize what's going on. It's right there in front of you. It appears Ricketts has put a lock on spending well after Covid. They pass on extensions, the free agents they do sign are mid-level or worse and the trades they make are for short-term players or minor leaguers. I just want the Cubs to pick a lane and go with it. If it's a youth movement, then play the damn kids. If build a team now, stop pissing away money on marginal players that eat up salary cap space. Uh, they pass on extensions? They signed Happ and Hoerner to one. Who'd they pass on ? Contreras, the guy they didn't want anymore. They signed Suzuki,Stroman the signed Swanson, Taillon , Imanaga, all guys who were in the top 10ish free agent rankings and came close on Bogaerts according to Boras until SD blew everybodies offer away they were willing to go into the 500 million Ohtani area . Just because they don't blow by the luxury tax in a season where they are transitioning to being legit contenders doesn't mean he's put a lock on spending. They are not a team thats going to stay over the luxury tax and acrue the penalties and fines and loss of picks and slot money , doesn't mean there is a lock on spending. They are trying to do it in a way that doesn't also cripple them down the road like last time where no contracts were rolling off the books each year and the were over the luxury tax and had no room to sign guys to extensions. I wish they'd spend like LA and NY does, it's not going to happen so I accept it and try to understand why they do what they do. But I agree with the pick a lane comment , either sign Belly but I don't agree with if they do they need to keep going this off season , it all doesn't have to be done this year , a year where a LOT of potential help should be coming up from within. Sign Belly and roll with what they have and leave some wiggle room for the deadline. Agree completely. I don’t want them to sign any more long term guys that blocks the top prospects waiting & learning. If you did then what’s the point of wanting a great farm system??
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Post by thisbuds4u on Feb 8, 2024 3:26:35 GMT -5
I do realize what's going on. It's right there in front of you. It appears Ricketts has put a lock on spending well after Covid. They pass on extensions, the free agents they do sign are mid-level or worse and the trades they make are for short-term players or minor leaguers. I just want the Cubs to pick a lane and go with it. If it's a youth movement, then play the damn kids. If build a team now, stop pissing away money on marginal players that eat up salary cap space. Uh, they pass on extensions? They signed Happ and Hoerner to one. Who'd they pass on ? Contreras, the guy they didn't want anymore. They signed Suzuki,Stroman the signed Swanson, Taillon , Imanaga, all guys who were in the top 10ish free agent rankings and came close on Bogaerts according to Boras until SD blew everybodies offer away they were willing to go into the 500 million Ohtani area . Just because they don't blow by the luxury tax in a season where they are transitioning to being legit contenders doesn't mean he's put a lock on spending. They are not a team thats going to stay over the luxury tax and acrue the penalties and fines and loss of picks and slot money , doesn't mean there is a lock on spending. They are trying to do it in a way that doesn't also cripple them down the road like last time where no contracts were rolling off the books each year and the were over the luxury tax and had no room to sign guys to extensions. I wish they'd spend like LA and NY does, it's not going to happen so I accept it and try to understand why they do what they do. But I agree with the pick a lane comment , either sign Belly but I don't agree with if they do they need to keep going this off season , it all doesn't have to be done this year , a year where a LOT of potential help should be coming up from within. Sign Belly and roll with what they have and leave some wiggle room for the deadline. It would be easy to pick apart the list if players you highlighted. One example, the Cubs are paying Taillon $18 million a year for the next 3 years. The Astros are paying Hader $19 million a year for the next 5 years. Sorry but I think Hader would have given the Cubs a better chance to win. Instead it was another contract that tied up money that could have been better spent.
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Post by fine09 on Feb 8, 2024 7:27:32 GMT -5
Uh, they pass on extensions? They signed Happ and Hoerner to one. Who'd they pass on ? Contreras, the guy they didn't want anymore. They signed Suzuki,Stroman the signed Swanson, Taillon , Imanaga, all guys who were in the top 10ish free agent rankings and came close on Bogaerts according to Boras until SD blew everybodies offer away they were willing to go into the 500 million Ohtani area . Just because they don't blow by the luxury tax in a season where they are transitioning to being legit contenders doesn't mean he's put a lock on spending. They are not a team thats going to stay over the luxury tax and acrue the penalties and fines and loss of picks and slot money , doesn't mean there is a lock on spending. They are trying to do it in a way that doesn't also cripple them down the road like last time where no contracts were rolling off the books each year and the were over the luxury tax and had no room to sign guys to extensions. I wish they'd spend like LA and NY does, it's not going to happen so I accept it and try to understand why they do what they do. But I agree with the pick a lane comment , either sign Belly but I don't agree with if they do they need to keep going this off season , it all doesn't have to be done this year , a year where a LOT of potential help should be coming up from within. Sign Belly and roll with what they have and leave some wiggle room for the deadline. It would be easy to pick apart the list if players you highlighted. One example, the Cubs are paying Taillon $18 million a year for the next 3 years. The Astros are paying Hader $19 million a year for the next 5 years. Sorry but I think Hader would have given the Cubs a better chance to win. Instead it was another contract that tied up money that could have been better spent. There are a couple problems with your example. 1, the Cubs needed a mid rotation starter last year & they had him try a few changes that failed but once he settled in he pitched much better & I look for him to do pretty well this year. 2, the Cubs didn’t need a closer last year when they signed Taillon because they were not supposed to compete like they did. And 3, you are comparing Taillon’s deal a year in to it against what you “think” Hader will do this year AND the next 4 years after that. Thats not apples for apples, its an apples for meatloaf comparison..
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Post by batman66 on Feb 8, 2024 7:58:48 GMT -5
Uh, they pass on extensions? They signed Happ and Hoerner to one. Who'd they pass on ? Contreras, the guy they didn't want anymore. They signed Suzuki,Stroman the signed Swanson, Taillon , Imanaga, all guys who were in the top 10ish free agent rankings and came close on Bogaerts according to Boras until SD blew everybodies offer away they were willing to go into the 500 million Ohtani area . Just because they don't blow by the luxury tax in a season where they are transitioning to being legit contenders doesn't mean he's put a lock on spending. They are not a team thats going to stay over the luxury tax and acrue the penalties and fines and loss of picks and slot money , doesn't mean there is a lock on spending. They are trying to do it in a way that doesn't also cripple them down the road like last time where no contracts were rolling off the books each year and the were over the luxury tax and had no room to sign guys to extensions. I wish they'd spend like LA and NY does, it's not going to happen so I accept it and try to understand why they do what they do. But I agree with the pick a lane comment , either sign Belly but I don't agree with if they do they need to keep going this off season , it all doesn't have to be done this year , a year where a LOT of potential help should be coming up from within. Sign Belly and roll with what they have and leave some wiggle room for the deadline. It would be easy to pick apart the list if players you highlighted. One example, the Cubs are paying Taillon $18 million a year for the next 3 years. The Astros are paying Hader $19 million a year for the next 5 years. Sorry but I think Hader would have given the Cubs a better chance to win. Instead it was another contract that tied up money that could have been better spent. It's not about results, if you are going to look at free agent results on contracts and money better spent, every team is going to have the issue of duds. My point was they did not freeze spending and they did sign a lot of top 10 type free agents. I totally see why they signed Taillon and don't think it's money poorly spent. He was the 14th ranked free agent in a pretty deep pool. If you want to talk about money poorly spent , how about the Yankees and Carlos Rodon as an example. Taillon did not have a great season by any means , he was horrible the first half but the second half it looks like he got back to where he should be after ditching the sweeper they thought would advance him to another level. No doubt I would rather have spent that money on Hader , but it's not like you hold off on a starting pitcher one year because Hader MIGHT be available the next year so you really can't compare that unless they were both in the same free agent class and the Cubs decided to spend the money on Taillon and not Hader.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Feb 8, 2024 10:55:29 GMT -5
Uh, they pass on extensions? They signed Happ and Hoerner to one. Who'd they pass on ? Contreras, the guy they didn't want anymore. They signed Suzuki,Stroman the signed Swanson, Taillon , Imanaga, all guys who were in the top 10ish free agent rankings and came close on Bogaerts according to Boras until SD blew everybodies offer away they were willing to go into the 500 million Ohtani area . Just because they don't blow by the luxury tax in a season where they are transitioning to being legit contenders doesn't mean he's put a lock on spending. They are not a team thats going to stay over the luxury tax and acrue the penalties and fines and loss of picks and slot money , doesn't mean there is a lock on spending. They are trying to do it in a way that doesn't also cripple them down the road like last time where no contracts were rolling off the books each year and the were over the luxury tax and had no room to sign guys to extensions. I wish they'd spend like LA and NY does, it's not going to happen so I accept it and try to understand why they do what they do. But I agree with the pick a lane comment , either sign Belly but I don't agree with if they do they need to keep going this off season , it all doesn't have to be done this year , a year where a LOT of potential help should be coming up from within. Sign Belly and roll with what they have and leave some wiggle room for the deadline. Agree completely. I don’t want them to sign any more long term guys that blocks the top prospects waiting & learning. If you did then what’s the point of wanting a great farm system?? You have to be willing to flip guys if you have a great farm system. You can't be scared of a young guy being good for another team if you traded for a Juan Soto, or a Manny Machado, or a Bryce Harper, etc. I'm just throwing names out there not saying the Cubs could of had these guys, though they could have. Building a good farm system isn't just to develop players. And the reality is, most "top prospect" don't pan out. I'm not saying dump them, but pinpoint the ones you want to develop and the one who are flexible in trade.
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Post by TheChico on Feb 8, 2024 11:20:24 GMT -5
Agree completely. I don’t want them to sign any more long term guys that blocks the top prospects waiting & learning. If you did then what’s the point of wanting a great farm system?? You have to be willing to flip guys if you have a great farm system. You can't be scared of a young guy being good for another team if you traded for a Juan Soto, or a Manny Machado, or a Bryce Harper, etc. I'm just throwing names out there not saying the Cubs could of had these guys, though they could have. Building a good farm system isn't just to develop players. And the reality is, most "top prospect" don't pan out. I'm not saying dump them, but pinpoint the ones you want to develop and the one who are flexible in trade. Kind of like how the Dodgers and Braves role, it is just finding a balance which is still a work in progress but on the right track. Right now the Cubs are in not in a position that FO and fans should be worried about prospects being blocked, the Cubs are miles away from facing that problem that any team would love to have. I really hope that becomes an issue, that means things are going very well in Chicago.
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Post by batman66 on Feb 8, 2024 11:25:01 GMT -5
Agree completely. I don’t want them to sign any more long term guys that blocks the top prospects waiting & learning. If you did then what’s the point of wanting a great farm system?? You have to be willing to flip guys if you have a great farm system. You can't be scared of a young guy being good for another team if you traded for a Juan Soto, or a Manny Machado, or a Bryce Harper, etc. I'm just throwing names out there not saying the Cubs could of had these guys, though they could have. Building a good farm system isn't just to develop players. And the reality is, most "top prospect" don't pan out. I'm not saying dump them, but pinpoint the ones you want to develop and the one who are flexible in trade. Of course, part of wanting a good farm is to be able to use them as assets in trade to fill needs. But you also need to get a vision on a roster balance between young cheap players under multiple years of control and expensive veterans because unless you plan to spend like LA or the Mets , you can't afford a team loaded with high priced veterans. There has to be a blend if you want sustained success and to be able to afford players when you need to. I see that as the Cubs vision , guys like PCA, Horton are definitely looked at as part of the future core who will be cheap for a while and an important part of the team and guys like Shaw, Caissie, Alcantara are too. They haven't exactly been holding tight onto the prospects, traded Herz and Made for Candelario, and just traded Ferris for Busch which shows me if they feel they have a need in one area and maybe a surplus in another they will trade a stud prospect like Ferris. <<but pinpoint the ones you want to develop and the one who are flexible in trade.>> I think they know how that works and do it , they know who they feel is part of the future and who might fizzle out or be more valuable to them in trade , they aren't idiots.
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Post by fine09 on Feb 8, 2024 11:33:39 GMT -5
Agree completely. I don’t want them to sign any more long term guys that blocks the top prospects waiting & learning. If you did then what’s the point of wanting a great farm system?? You have to be willing to flip guys if you have a great farm system. You can't be scared of a young guy being good for another team if you traded for a Juan Soto, or a Manny Machado, or a Bryce Harper, etc. I'm just throwing names out there not saying the Cubs could have had these guys, though they could have. Building a good farm system isn't just to develop players. And the reality is, most "top prospect" don't pan out. I'm not saying dump them, but pinpoint the ones you want to develop and the one who are flexible in trade. Agreed. I believe that they have marked PCA, Horton & Busch 3 guys that they have complete faith in as impact MLB players & sadly Bellinger “somewhat” blocks 2 of them which is why they are hesitant to go all in on a long term deal for Cody. I agree that flipping prospects is a great way to build up a team quickly because you sell high on “perceived” value as opposed to if you keep them they must succeed in order for it to work out great. That being said, I am also confident that one of Cassie / Alcantara will also be very good when all is said & done.
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Post by batman66 on Feb 8, 2024 11:35:41 GMT -5
You have to be willing to flip guys if you have a great farm system. You can't be scared of a young guy being good for another team if you traded for a Juan Soto, or a Manny Machado, or a Bryce Harper, etc. I'm just throwing names out there not saying the Cubs could of had these guys, though they could have. Building a good farm system isn't just to develop players. And the reality is, most "top prospect" don't pan out. I'm not saying dump them, but pinpoint the ones you want to develop and the one who are flexible in trade. Kind of like how the Dodgers and Braves role. Right now the Cubs are in not in a position that FO and fans should be worried about prospects being blocked, the Cubs are miles away from facing that problem that any team would love to have. I really hope that becomes an issue, that means things are going very well in Chicago. No but if the future core is being built from within who are now close to major league ready they aren't going to go ape shit crazy filling positions with veterans. Last year we saw them sign stop gap veterans because the prospects were still mostly in A ball , now they are not and most are in AAor AAA so why be signing a lot of veterans now? We all would love a team full of big name all stars because we feel better about the chances they do well over a team full of young players trying to establish themselves, but we also seen how that worked for the Mets, Yankees, Padres etc and how it worked for teams like the Orioles, DBacks etc There also has to be a vision about the payroll well in advance , will they be able to start signing young players to extensions like other teams are , not really if they are already pushing their nose against the luxury tax before the team is a legit year to year contender. Part of the reason the old core did not get any extensions was they were already over the luxury tax at the time it would have been best to offer them and they had no money coming off the books. There is way more to this then hey , this guys a good player lets sign him , you have to weigh cost into some moves , like Contreras for example who they didn't seem to love anyway, but was it going to be worth paying him 18 million a year when you can have both Gomes and Amaya for 6.5 ?
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Feb 8, 2024 11:36:34 GMT -5
You have to be willing to flip guys if you have a great farm system. You can't be scared of a young guy being good for another team if you traded for a Juan Soto, or a Manny Machado, or a Bryce Harper, etc. I'm just throwing names out there not saying the Cubs could of had these guys, though they could have. Building a good farm system isn't just to develop players. And the reality is, most "top prospect" don't pan out. I'm not saying dump them, but pinpoint the ones you want to develop and the one who are flexible in trade. Of course, part of wanting a good farm is to be able to use them as assets in trade to fill needs. But you also need to get a vision on a roster balance between young cheap players under multiple years of control and expensive veterans because unless you plan to spend like LA or the Mets , you can't afford a team loaded with high priced veterans. There has to be a blend if you want sustained success and to be able to afford players when you need to. I see that as the Cubs vision , guys like PCA, Horton are definitely looked at as part of the future core who will be cheap for a while and an important part of the team and guys like Shaw, Caissie, Alcantara are too. They haven't exactly been holding tight onto the prospects, traded Herz and Made for Candelario, and just traded Ferris for Busch which shows me if they feel they have a need in one area and maybe a surplus in another they will trade a stud prospect like Ferris. <<but pinpoint the ones you want to develop and the one who are flexible in trade.>> I think they know how that works and do it , they know who they feel is part of the future and who might fizzle out or be more valuable to them in trade , they aren't idiots. "I think they know how that works and do it" No, I don't think they do. When was the last time the Cubs traded a top prospect for a proven player? Eloy? But you're right, they're not idiots, they're only 30 games UNDER .500 since 2021.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Feb 8, 2024 11:38:42 GMT -5
You have to be willing to flip guys if you have a great farm system. You can't be scared of a young guy being good for another team if you traded for a Juan Soto, or a Manny Machado, or a Bryce Harper, etc. I'm just throwing names out there not saying the Cubs could have had these guys, though they could have. Building a good farm system isn't just to develop players. And the reality is, most "top prospect" don't pan out. I'm not saying dump them, but pinpoint the ones you want to develop and the one who are flexible in trade. Agreed. I believe that they have marked PCA, Horton & Busch 3 guys that they have complete faith in as impact MLB players & sadly Bellinger “somewhat” blocks 2 of them which is why they are hesitant to go all in on a long term deal for Cody. I agree that flipping prospects is a great way to build up a team quickly because you sell high on “perceived” value as opposed to if you keep them they must succeed in order for it to work out great. That being said, I am also confident that one of Cassie / Alcantara will also be very good when all is said & done. Yeah, and I have my opinion about the Busch trade..... "calculated", but you all know how I feel about Tommy and paying for good YOUNG players.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Feb 8, 2024 11:42:40 GMT -5
Kind of like how the Dodgers and Braves role. Right now the Cubs are in not in a position that FO and fans should be worried about prospects being blocked, the Cubs are miles away from facing that problem that any team would love to have. I really hope that becomes an issue, that means things are going very well in Chicago. No but if the future core is being built from within who are now close to major league ready they aren't going to go ape shit crazy filling positions with veterans. Last year we saw them sign stop gap veterans because the prospects were still mostly in A ball , now they are not and most are in AAor AAA so why be signing a lot of veterans now? We all would love a team full of big name all stars because we feel better about the chances they do well over a team full of young players trying to establish themselves, but we also seen how that worked for the Mets, Yankees, Padres etc and how it worked for teams like the Orioles, DBacks etc There also has to be a vision about the payroll well in advance , will they be able to start signing young players to extensions like other teams are , not really if they are already pushing their nose against the luxury tax before the team is a legit year to year contender. Part of the reason the old core did not get any extensions was they were already over the luxury tax at the time it would have been best to offer them and they had no money coming off the books. There is way more to this then hey , this guys a good player lets sign him , you have to weigh cost into some moves , like Contreras for example who they didn't seem to love anyway, but was it going to be worth paying him 18 million a year when you can have both Gomes and Amaya for 6.5 ? Or the Rangers, and the Phillies and Astros, all 3 by the way were top 7 payrolls and all 3 were in the final 4 last year. You love to try and bring down high payroll teams without recognizing the success of the high payroll teams that win, like the Rangers and Astros. You don't have to be #1, but you can spend a lot and still win. The Cubs aren't the Orioles, Dbacks or Rays. Stop this nonsense already.
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Post by batman66 on Feb 8, 2024 11:44:18 GMT -5
You have to be willing to flip guys if you have a great farm system. You can't be scared of a young guy being good for another team if you traded for a Juan Soto, or a Manny Machado, or a Bryce Harper, etc. I'm just throwing names out there not saying the Cubs could have had these guys, though they could have. Building a good farm system isn't just to develop players. And the reality is, most "top prospect" don't pan out. I'm not saying dump them, but pinpoint the ones you want to develop and the one who are flexible in trade. Agreed. I believe that they have marked PCA, Horton & Busch 3 guys that they have complete faith in as impact MLB players & sadly Bellinger “somewhat” blocks 2 of them which is why they are hesitant to go all in on a long term deal for Cody. I agree that flipping prospects is a great way to build up a team quickly because you sell high on “perceived” value as opposed to if you keep them they must succeed in order for it to work out great. That being said, I am also confident that one of Cassie / Alcantara will also be very good when all is said & done. Thats the thing with Bellinger , does he make them better in 2024 , probably but do you need to /have to spend what it would take to get him when you have Busch, PCA, Caissie, Alcantara around . I mean I would love to have Bellinger, no secret on here about how much I like the guy and want him to be a Cub again and he would no doubt make me feel a LOT better aboutt he Cubs chances in 2024 and if they don't sign him , yeah they might struggle in 2024 if they are counting on a rookie to hold the power load in the middle of the line up. But if Busch is the hitter most think he is and he can play a solid 1B , do they miss not signing Bellinger going forward? If PCA is what most of us expect in CF , do they miss Bellinger going forward? It would all make us feel better if they do sign him because we all feel more comfortable with veterans, but because of what else they have , I could see why they are not caving in to Boras demands and why they do want him back , but more on their terms and then worry about making the others fit. I don't know if I just talked in circles here or not , I'm going fucking crazy with all this non action, speculation, questions of who plays where shit already.
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