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Post by batman66 on Oct 3, 2023 10:50:41 GMT -5
I could be wrong but I just don’t think the Mets are going to settle for Mervis and a low level arm for Alonso. Look at the trades they made at the deadline. They want to eat money, which they have tons of, to increase the return. At the deadline the Brewers were another team reportedly discussing Alonso with the Mets. After what I’m hoping is an early playoff exit for them, and considering their flush farm system and abysmal production from first base, not to mention their lower payroll, that’s immediately one team that comes to my mind as a better fit for the Mets. Money eaten, trade return increased. That’s why I don’t necessarily think there’s a good fit here. Not because we wouldn’t want Alonso, but we wouldn’t want him at the likely cost to obtain from the Mets. If we are going to pay a prospect premium for only a guaranteed rental player, Soto makes the most sense to me. But you make that trade fully committed to the big bucks it’ll take to extend him even prior to spring training or you don’t make it at all. That and Stearns is now in NY running the Mets and has the connection. I really don't want to see him end up in Milwaukee even though it would be for one season.
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Post by batman66 on Oct 3, 2023 10:53:25 GMT -5
I get what you are saying , but I started to look at it from a different viewpoint and it's not from the talent level they traded away, rather from the point that a guy like Velazquez likely wasn't going to have much of a future to play here so it was filling a need and trading what I call an expendable player although I don't like Cuas at all and don't like the trade at all from the Cubs side. Regarding Alonso, no way I'd deal any of the top of the crop , but I had previously mentioned Mervis who seems to have no future here and maybe a guy like Kilian who is close to being ready and something the Mets might want because he will likely be passed up by others like he already has/is/will be being like Wicks, Brown, Horton, Ferris I could live with sacrificing Mervis, Kilian and a mid to lower level guy or two for Alonso , but to make the deal make more sense ask for something to come back with Alonso so it's possible to get more than one year of him out of the deal. I agree that Velazquez had no room here, but I think they could have done better than Cuas for him. For the record, I'm not a fan of Cuas, I don't like his repertoire, I don't like how often he throws wild pitches and has very little control. I'd have rather they found a better option out there than him. I feel like the FO has times where they have so much talent they give it away for far less than value. I know when you're in a winning situation that happens, but I'd have rather they packaged another mid-low prospect with Nelson to get something better.
I like the idea of a Mervis/Kilian and other low guys for 1 year of Alonso, but I doubt that's enough for NY. Crazy how Kilian was the gem of the KB trade and has so quickly fallen off.
I totally agree with you on the Velazquez/ Cuas trade. Kilian and his deer in headlights major league performances kind of changed things and I think also rattled his confidence but I think he's fallen more so because they just have better optoions now and guys are passing him up or will soon.
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Post by kfidd on Oct 3, 2023 11:10:37 GMT -5
Does anyone by chance know where to find hitter statistics by ballpark? I’m trying to find what Pete Alonso’s career numbers are at Wrigley Field but I’m struggling to find them.
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Post by rvn11 on Oct 3, 2023 11:15:20 GMT -5
Does anyone by chance know where to find hitter statistics by ballpark? I’m trying to find what Pete Alonso’s career numbers are at Wrigley Field but I’m struggling to find them.
In a brief look it appears he has had some of his best numbers against the Cubs, outside of the NL East.
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Post by kfidd on Oct 3, 2023 11:32:20 GMT -5
Does anyone by chance know where to find hitter statistics by ballpark? I’m trying to find what Pete Alonso’s career numbers are at Wrigley Field but I’m struggling to find them.
In a brief look it appears he has had some of his best numbers against the Cubs, outside of the NL East.
Thank you! There’s no doubt that this guy loves hitting at Wrigley Field. 61 PA, .286/.410/.816/1.226, 8 HR, 18 RBI Obviously he isn’t keeping up that pace over a full season, but it’s tough not to get excited over those numbers for sure. Factor in the contract year and he could be a monster in a Cubs uniform. Just depends on the acquisition cost. Would sure hate to see that guy in a Brewers uniform…
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Post by kfidd on Oct 3, 2023 11:35:25 GMT -5
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Post by fine09 on Oct 3, 2023 12:09:45 GMT -5
Count me in on your thoughts too because his HR/2b or nothing isn't going to cut it & his rumored attitude situation seals the deal for me to avoid at any cost, much less the high cost that they will want. Maybe it's just my age , but I can't seem to make up my mind lately. I could never stay with a stance on if I wanted Happ extended and a few other things and now I keep going back and forth on Alonso. But me being in favor of trading for him depends on if they sign Bellinger or not , if they don't then forget it. If they do , as much as I don't like Alonso , and I've been outspoken about thinking he's a bit of a DBag a line up with Bellinger and Alonso in the middle of it with all the other talent the Cubs have could be very exciting to watch. You'd have two legit 100 rbi guys and I know some people don't like that stats and say it's a team thing , but some also know what I mean when I say some guys are just good rbi guys and some are not. Using your Wisdom example and stretching his numbers out to a meet Alonso's pa's and say that he'd be almost just as productive. I doubt he would . On paper , ok , but in reality , he (Wisdom) is one of those that I don't consider a good rbi guy. 2022 he had 531 pa's , he drove in 66 runs , for example this season Bellinger 556 pa's he drove in 97. Alonso had a .257 avg and .908 ops with RISP Wisdom .200 avg .755 And I don't think the price tag would be as damaging as some people think , it might only cost Mervis who the Cubs seem to not be in love with and don't seem to be looking at him as part of the future and probably a solid pitching prospect since the Mets lack those. I don't really like to give away a lot for one year rentals but if it's expendable type prospects who probably have no future here then I might be ok with it and then you have a season to play into where you can size up Alonso and see if he;s a guy you want around longer or not. If he's not , in 2025 if you can move Bellinger to 1B if they signed him. But I'm sure tomorrow or the next day I'll change my mind. I just keep playing in my head a line up with him and Bellinger in the middle and I know pitchers will fear that and adding a bat like his and hitting him behind Belli , should only help Belli even more. I still can't get past the .217 average & .318 OBP for Alonso but I sure wouldn't hate the 46 HR's & 118 RBI's though. If we can't resign Bellinger then I keep & start Mervis. I'm sure that if they trade Mervis that he will undoubtedly be that teams opening day 1st. baseman & honestly I would have no problem at all if that team was the Cubs & I'd give him 170 at bats (or 2 straight months) to prove himself & if he can't get it done then move on. BUT.. If he CAN handle it I can see a higher average & OBP than Alonso's 2023 with maybe 75% of the HR's & RBI's & for $650,000 per year for the next 3 years which would free up 20 to 25 million per year to spend elsewhere & what team couldn't use those funds for elsewhere? I see Alonso costing us Mervis & Brown at a minimum & those are guys we could either keep or use for other trades that bring back more than a 1 year rental of a guy hitting just 17 points higher than the Mendoza line..
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Post by batman66 on Oct 3, 2023 13:04:08 GMT -5
Thanks for posting that. Good stuff in there but nothing surprising. Sounds like they will try turn the 1 year option with Hendricks into atleast two years like we all thought and Ross isn't going anywhere.
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Post by kfidd on Oct 3, 2023 13:10:28 GMT -5
Thanks for posting that. Good stuff in there but nothing surprising. Sounds like they will try turn the 1 year option with Hendricks into atleast two years like we all thought and Ross isn't going anywhere. Another thing that isn’t surprising but maybe worth something is what sounds like commitment to getting Morel an everyday fielding position. The opportunities are slim, 3B, 1B, and CF. 3B seems the most practical. But I do like the idea of getting him a fielding position and off from DH.
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Post by batman66 on Oct 3, 2023 13:14:25 GMT -5
Maybe it's just my age , but I can't seem to make up my mind lately. I could never stay with a stance on if I wanted Happ extended and a few other things and now I keep going back and forth on Alonso. But me being in favor of trading for him depends on if they sign Bellinger or not , if they don't then forget it. If they do , as much as I don't like Alonso , and I've been outspoken about thinking he's a bit of a DBag a line up with Bellinger and Alonso in the middle of it with all the other talent the Cubs have could be very exciting to watch. You'd have two legit 100 rbi guys and I know some people don't like that stats and say it's a team thing , but some also know what I mean when I say some guys are just good rbi guys and some are not. Using your Wisdom example and stretching his numbers out to a meet Alonso's pa's and say that he'd be almost just as productive. I doubt he would . On paper , ok , but in reality , he (Wisdom) is one of those that I don't consider a good rbi guy. 2022 he had 531 pa's , he drove in 66 runs , for example this season Bellinger 556 pa's he drove in 97. Alonso had a .257 avg and .908 ops with RISP Wisdom .200 avg .755 And I don't think the price tag would be as damaging as some people think , it might only cost Mervis who the Cubs seem to not be in love with and don't seem to be looking at him as part of the future and probably a solid pitching prospect since the Mets lack those. I don't really like to give away a lot for one year rentals but if it's expendable type prospects who probably have no future here then I might be ok with it and then you have a season to play into where you can size up Alonso and see if he;s a guy you want around longer or not. If he's not , in 2025 if you can move Bellinger to 1B if they signed him. But I'm sure tomorrow or the next day I'll change my mind. I just keep playing in my head a line up with him and Bellinger in the middle and I know pitchers will fear that and adding a bat like his and hitting him behind Belli , should only help Belli even more. I still can't get past the .217 average & .318 OBP for Alonso but I sure wouldn't hate the 46 HR's & 118 RBI's though. If we can't resign Bellinger then I keep & start Mervis. I'm sure that if they trade Mervis that he will undoubtedly be that teams opening day 1st. baseman & honestly I would have no problem at all if that team was the Cubs & I'd give him 170 at bats (or 2 straight months) to prove himself & if he can't get it done then move on. BUT.. If he CAN handle it I can see a higher average & OBP than Alonso's 2023 with maybe 75% of the HR's & RBI's & for $650,000 per year for the next 3 years which would free up 20 to 25 million per year to spend elsewhere & what team couldn't use those funds for elsewhere? I see Alonso costing us Mervis & Brown at a minimum & those are guys we could either keep or use for other trades that bring back more than a 1 year rental of a guy hitting just 17 points higher than the Mendoza line.. I hate low betting averages so I'm with you , the .217 is killing me but that hasn't typically been him. Unlike Wisdom .205 , .207, .231 and a career .214 he hasn't typically been down there often .260 , 231, .262, .271 and a career .251 and he's in a free agent year so I think the chances of bouncing back to around his career average is pretty solid. I hear you on Mervis , but I don't see it happening because we know 2024 they are now really focused on winning and making the playoffs. They are not going to go into 2024 with the question of will Mervis sink or swim as our 1b without having a plan B which is going to be having a veteran option and we know how that works , lol.
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Post by batman66 on Oct 3, 2023 13:20:03 GMT -5
Thanks for posting that. Good stuff in there but nothing surprising. Sounds like they will try turn the 1 year option with Hendricks into atleast two years like we all thought and Ross isn't going anywhere. Another thing that isn’t surprising but maybe worth something is what sounds like commitment to getting Morel an everyday fielding position. The opportunities are slim, 3B, 1B, and CF. 3B seems the most practical. But I do like the idea of getting him a fielding position and off from DH. Yes, that stood out to me but I forgot to mention it. I don't really see it being in the OF with the near future of the OF going to be already over crowded as is. 3b would make the most sense because there is that hole there for now. I think he is better off playing a position and not being the DH because he's so high energy and it's probably hard for him to sit and focus on the bench. But who knows, on the other hand maybe since he doesn't have to worry about defense as a DH he can just focus on hitting.
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Post by thisbuds4u on Oct 3, 2023 13:43:26 GMT -5
If the Cubs lose Bellinger, Mervis may get a chance to play just based on the fact that the Cubs would have a RH-heavy lineup with little power from the left side. Getting Roberts, from the Sox, might be a better option than Alonso. He comes with a lower salary and he would be under team control for multiple years.
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Post by fine09 on Oct 3, 2023 14:27:35 GMT -5
Another thing that isn’t surprising but maybe worth something is what sounds like commitment to getting Morel an everyday fielding position. The opportunities are slim, 3B, 1B, and CF. 3B seems the most practical. But I do like the idea of getting him a fielding position and off from DH. Yes, that stood out to me but I forgot to mention it. I don't really see it being in the OF with the near future of the OF going to be already over crowded as is. 3b would make the most sense because there is that hole there for now. I think he is better off playing a position and not being the DH because he's so high energy and it's probably hard for him to sit and focus on the bench. But who knows, on the other hand maybe since he doesn't have to worry about defense as a DH he can just focus on hitting. Have the Cubs ever had Morel play 1st. base? I'm not saying he could, I am simply asking if they ever had..
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Post by fine09 on Oct 3, 2023 14:29:03 GMT -5
If the Cubs lose Bellinger, Mervis may get a chance to play just based on the fact that the Cubs would have a RH-heavy lineup with little power from the left side. Getting Roberts, from the Sox, might be a better option than Alonso. He comes with a lower salary and he would be under team control for multiple years. Yes, but he is also the one "untouchable" that the White Sox said they had at the deadline. Good lord, he would cost PCA, Brown & Alcantara..
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Post by kfidd on Oct 3, 2023 15:16:17 GMT -5
Yes, that stood out to me but I forgot to mention it. I don't really see it being in the OF with the near future of the OF going to be already over crowded as is. 3b would make the most sense because there is that hole there for now. I think he is better off playing a position and not being the DH because he's so high energy and it's probably hard for him to sit and focus on the bench. But who knows, on the other hand maybe since he doesn't have to worry about defense as a DH he can just focus on hitting. Have the Cubs ever had Morel play 1st. base? I'm not saying he could, I am simply asking if they ever had.. Looking at fangraphs they have not. From my untrained eye test I think Morel looked most comfortable at second base this season. Opportunities were limited for him there, but I thought he looked pretty natural and could definitely improve his play there with more repetitions. So there’s always a thought that Hoerner could slide over to third base and Morel at second if they feel that’s a better fit. If it were me I’d probably just tell Morel now that he’s the opening day third baseman next season but he needs to get to work on improving his footwork and reads off the bat. Set him up with the proper coaches and off-season regimen and we could have a special player on our hands. I guess he already is but he’s not some immobile oaf who just had a ton of raw power, he’s a legit athlete that seems like he should be more than capable of holding a position down in the field. Need to help him get there this winter. On the topic of Hoerner, I forget who but someone here commented once that they felt Shaw would be an eventual replacement for Hoerner. While I’m not ready to immediately buy into that, I do think Hoerner was underwhelming this season at the plate. Once he got on the bases he made things happen but that .729 OPS and 97 OPS+, both need to improve next season for me.
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Post by thisbuds4u on Oct 3, 2023 15:52:08 GMT -5
If the Cubs lose Bellinger, Mervis may get a chance to play just based on the fact that the Cubs would have a RH-heavy lineup with little power from the left side. Getting Roberts, from the Sox, might be a better option than Alonso. He comes with a lower salary and he would be under team control for multiple years. Yes, but he is also the one "untouchable" that the White Sox said they had at the deadline. Good lord, he would cost PCA, Brown & Alcantara.. The Sox can ask for the moon but it doesn't mean they will get it. I don't buy the "untouchable" for one minute. Not for a team that has few assets. It would not surprise me one bit to see Roberts traded this off-season. He has more value as a trade piece than a player on a rebuilding team.
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Post by kfidd on Oct 3, 2023 17:10:38 GMT -5
Another thing that isn’t surprising but maybe worth something is what sounds like commitment to getting Morel an everyday fielding position. The opportunities are slim, 3B, 1B, and CF. 3B seems the most practical. But I do like the idea of getting him a fielding position and off from DH. Yes, that stood out to me but I forgot to mention it. I don't really see it being in the OF with the near future of the OF going to be already over crowded as is. 3b would make the most sense because there is that hole there for now. I think he is better off playing a position and not being the DH because he's so high energy and it's probably hard for him to sit and focus on the bench. But who knows, on the other hand maybe since he doesn't have to worry about defense as a DH he can just focus on hitting. On your latter comment, that seems reasonable for some players, but I don’t think it can mean that for Morel. Not that it can’t from his perspective, but can’t from the Cubs perspective. The positions available are so limited with Happ, Suzuki, and Hoerner all being locked up for three more seasons and Swanson for six. And while centerfield is anything but secure, it seems reasonable that there will be a good leash for the foreseeable future for the Canario/PCA combo there. There is so much youth chomping at the bit for the bigs right now, I feel like Morel has to prove he is capable of handling either third or second base full time if he’s going to stick around for the long haul. Caissie, Mervis, Shaw all coming off excellent seasons and all likely in Iowa bare minimum by summer 2024. And those are just a few of the headliners for, as you know better than most, there are others who had excellent seasons and are moving up the ladder quickly. To me it feels like DH needs to be either locked down by a stud bat (*cough, Ohtani, cough*) or somewhat flexible for the youth movement, and that means Morel needs to buck up and fill another hole. Good thing for him there is a giant, gaping one over at third base with his name all over it. Unless of course he was involved in a big trade this winter, which while I’d hate to see Morel go it’s also a real possibility. Is it totally unreasonable to think a team like San Diego would want Morel as part of the return for one of its star bats? Would the Cubs be that upset letting him go if they didn’t want to risk losing Vazquez to the rule 5? Just spitballing, but I think Morel needs to find himself at third base if he wants a future with this club. As I see the realities at least, coupled with Jed’s comments earlier today, that seems like the only logical option to me.
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Post by kfidd on Oct 3, 2023 17:18:04 GMT -5
Yes, but he is also the one "untouchable" that the White Sox said they had at the deadline. Good lord, he would cost PCA, Brown & Alcantara.. The Sox can ask for the moon but it doesn't mean they will get it. I don't buy the "untouchable" for one minute. Not for a team that has few assets. It would not surprise me one bit to see Roberts traded this off-season. He has more value as a trade piece than a player on a rebuilding team.The problem with that I think is that the number of teams lining up for 4 guaranteed years of control for a 5 tool player like Robert would make sure the White Sox could in fact ask for the moon. And for as stubborn as Reinsdorf is I get the impression he’d make sure any offer from the Cubs would have an extra layer of oomph added to it. I think the Robert cost is likely too high. In today’s Hoyer presser, he said that both A) trades from the farm are inevitable and B) a farm loaded with both quality and quantity is essential. I’d venture a guess that four years of Robert is far more expensive than one year of Soto, and rightfully so with the guaranteed years and payroll commitment.
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Post by tedw on Oct 3, 2023 17:42:14 GMT -5
Watched Hoyer's press conference and most of it was pretty much as I expected. I did like hearing how he owned up that we didn't meet the goal for the year, clearly he was disappointed. Didn't give the "we fell short, but played above expectations and happy for that" malarky.
Without coming out and actually saying it, it already does sound like they won't be seriously pursuing Bellinger. I hope I'm wrong. But the key to me was when Hoyer said "Yes, the contributions he made will have to be replaced." As in, that's what they are already looking into doing.
As for Morel, I would live to see how he progresses next season. But right now he doesn't excite me too much as he reminds me too much of Javy while at the plate. And Baez at the plate usually had me wringing my hands, swinging at pitches 4 feet out of the strike zone. Where he does deserve time to see how he progresses, I really hope he learns plate discipline. I don't want to see another hacker with him.
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Post by thisbuds4u on Oct 3, 2023 17:55:33 GMT -5
The Sox can ask for the moon but it doesn't mean they will get it. I don't buy the "untouchable" for one minute. Not for a team that has few assets. It would not surprise me one bit to see Roberts traded this off-season. He has more value as a trade piece than a player on a rebuilding team.The problem with that I think is that the number of teams lining up for 4 guaranteed years of control for a 5 tool player like Robert would make sure the White Sox could in fact ask for the moon. And for as stubborn as Reinsdorf is I get the impression he’d make sure any offer from the Cubs would have an extra layer of oomph added to it. I think the Robert cost is likely too high. In today’s Hoyer presser, he said that both A) trades from the farm are inevitable and B) a farm loaded with both quality and quantity is essential. I’d venture a guess that four years of Robert is far more expensive than one year of Soto, and rightfully so with the guaranteed years and payroll commitment. With 4 years of control he would also be a trade asset for the Cubs. Soto, most likely, is a one and done player who will test free agency. And now the Cubs would have to out-bid teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, Giants, etc. for his services. Unless he agrees to a contract extension, I would pass on Soto and Alonso also.
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