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Post by 2mileshighillini on Feb 5, 2024 18:58:23 GMT -5
Hey. I missed the day, when he was traded and didn't contribute much, back then. But I was wondering. Has anyone here actually SEEN this guy play in an actual game? Not highlights of him. But watched a game he's played in?
So I went back and cherry picked about 4 games now. More to come, if I fancy the time.
One thing I've noticed.. I've seen about 60 Pitches now. I haven't seen him look stupid on 1 single pitch (Unlike my boy, Mervis). Not even on Lefthanded Sliders.
I seen about 6 Pitches that I thought were Strikes and he took them all. They were all Balls. And that's using the ABS system, so it's not like the Ump missed them. He consistently waits for his Pitch and spits on extremely close shit.
I'm liking this guy. His swing is compact. He gets long looks, at every Pitch. He sees a lot of Pitches. Has a quick bat, and of course, he crushes it.
Now, admittingly, I went to his game logs and chose games where he had multiple hits, but the hits aren't what I was looking for. It was his approach. And... He passed with flying colors. ←(EDIT: To Bold the Font 4/16)
Anyway, I'm kind of sick of the same thread, for 4 months now. So I thought I'd start a new one. Wish all the posts about him were here (Hint - maybe we can move them?), but this one is.
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Post by kfidd on Feb 5, 2024 19:08:12 GMT -5
Hey. I missed the day, when he was traded and didn't contribute much, back then. But I was wondering. Has anyone here actually SEEN this guy play in an actual game? Not highlights of him. But watched a game he's played in? So I went back and cherry picked about 4 games now. More to come, if I fancy the time. One thing I've noticed.. I've seen about 60 Pitches now. I haven't seen him look stupid on 1 single pitch (Unlike my boy, Mervis). Not even on Lefthanded Sliders. I seen about 6 Pitches that I thought were Strikes and he took them all. They were all Balls. And that's using the ABS system, so it's not like the Ump missed them. He consistently waits for his Pitch and spits on extremely close shit. I'm liking this guy. His swing is compact. He gets long looks, at every Pitch. He sees a lot of Pitches. And of course, he crushes it. Now, admittingly, I went to his game logs and chose games where he had multiple hits, but the hits aren't what I was looking for. It was his approach. And he passed with flying colors. Anyway, I'm kind of sick of the same thread, for 4 months now. So I thought I'd start a new one. Wish all the posts about him were here ( Hint - maybe we can move them?), but this one is. I have not watched him play other than highlight videos, and in fact the only other information I’ve gotten about him are his scouting reports. Everything suggests he is a very professional hitter in the making with his only real drawback being he’s 26 and not 21. Some will understand the whys behind him not getting much in the way of big league opportunities, some will not. But h just like I thought at the time I will absolutely take the guy that fits a need (lefty slugger at corner infield) even at age 26 without worrying about how Ferris might have impacted the Cubs roster in 3-4 years. Go Cubs! Go Busch! I’m not anointing him our savior in any way. He’s still a rookie without big league success or experience even. But I think many underestimate how impactful he could be to this Cubs offense for the next few years ahead.
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Post by kfidd on Feb 5, 2024 19:09:19 GMT -5
For those who have seen him what do you think of his abilities on defense? The only things I’ve caught are he isn’t a great defender but he also took some positive strides, specifically with his footwork, last season.
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Post by irishcubfan on Feb 5, 2024 21:32:33 GMT -5
I have seen him a few times, sporadic at bats with how deep the Dodgers are, seems to have an idea of the strike zone like a lot of the Dodger hitters. Bet he is much better defensively specifically at 1b than given credit for.
After reading further on him I think he will be a borderline all star at 1b (meaning 3rd or 4th any given year with a chance to sneak into the back up role at the AS game).
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Post by 2mileshighillini on Feb 5, 2024 22:24:47 GMT -5
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Post by thisbuds4u on Feb 6, 2024 3:12:48 GMT -5
Hey. I missed the day, when he was traded and didn't contribute much, back then. But I was wondering. Has anyone here actually SEEN this guy play in an actual game? Not highlights of him. But watched a game he's played in? So I went back and cherry picked about 4 games now. More to come, if I fancy the time. One thing I've noticed.. I've seen about 60 Pitches now. I haven't seen him look stupid on 1 single pitch (Unlike my boy, Mervis). Not even on Lefthanded Sliders. I seen about 6 Pitches that I thought were Strikes and he took them all. They were all Balls. And that's using the ABS system, so it's not like the Ump missed them. He consistently waits for his Pitch and spits on extremely close shit. I'm liking this guy. His swing is compact. He gets long looks, at every Pitch. He sees a lot of Pitches. And of course, he crushes it. Now, admittingly, I went to his game logs and chose games where he had multiple hits, but the hits aren't what I was looking for. It was his approach. And he passed with flying colors. Anyway, I'm kind of sick of the same thread, for 4 months now. So I thought I'd start a new one. Wish all the posts about him were here ( Hint - maybe we can move them?), but this one is. I have not watched him play other than highlight videos, and in fact the only other information I’ve gotten about him are his scouting reports. Everything suggests he is a very professional hitter in the making with his only real drawback being he’s 26 and not 21. Some will understand the whys behind him not getting much in the way of big league opportunities, some will not. But h just like I thought at the time I will absolutely take the guy that fits a need (lefty slugger at corner infield) even at age 26 without worrying about how Ferris might have impacted the Cubs roster in 3-4 years. Go Cubs! Go Busch! I’m not anointing him our savior in any way. He’s still a rookie without big league success or experience even. But I think many underestimate how impactful he could be to this Cubs offense for the next few years ahead. I do wonder why Busch didn't get more of an opportunity with the Dodgers. Throughout his minor league career he has been primarily a 2nd baseman and the Dodgers were in need of a 2nd baseman. So much so that they are moving Betts from RF to 2nd base this upcoming season.
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Post by 2mileshighillini on Feb 6, 2024 4:37:08 GMT -5
Bleacher Nation @bleachernation "Michael Busch didn't just lead the PCL in wRC+ last year (which is league-adjusted), he obliterated the field. And his home park in Oklahoma City was NOT one of the disproportionately high-offense parks.
Doesn't mean he'll rake in the bigs. But he was on another level there."
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Post by batman66 on Feb 6, 2024 8:01:04 GMT -5
For those who have seen him what do you think of his abilities on defense? The only things I’ve caught are he isn’t a great defender but he also took some positive strides, specifically with his footwork, last season. I think there is a general misconception about his defense and it's because he'e been moved around a lot. But that mainly comes from LA trying to pave him a path to the majors and I've mentioned that before and not that he's brutal in the field.. I don't know where he will end up , Cubs seem to be saying 1b and they think he can be a solid 1b , and I buy that unless they sign Bellinger then I'd like to see him get a lot of time at 3b. His bat , I'm not too worried about at all , he seems like a legit hitter with good plate discipline and pitch recognition and he was just the MVP of the PCL in which his team won a championship and he was in the final three for Milb hitting prospect of the year which went to Jackson Holliday. There are people put off by his age and him not having a set position , while that can be a worry , you should to consider he was drafted in 2019 , signed late and only got into 10 games that year. Next season was a total loss because of Covid when there was no minor league season. And since then he's made steady upward progress and would have been in the majors and getting a legit chance with most other teams last season , a season that in only 98 games he had 57 extra base hits 26 doubles, 4 triples, 27 homers and 90 rbi's , he also cut his strike outs way down and his walk to strike outs is pretty impressive 65/88.
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Post by TheChico on Feb 6, 2024 11:13:14 GMT -5
For those who have seen him what do you think of his abilities on defense? The only things I’ve caught are he isn’t a great defender but he also took some positive strides, specifically with his footwork, last season. He is not a good defender at 3B/2B/OF but I have read that many scouts think he can be an above average defender at 1B in this league.
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Post by skokiejoe on Feb 6, 2024 11:57:24 GMT -5
Is this where the Cubs are at?
Hoerner 2b Happ LF Suzuki RF Morel DH Busch/Wisdom 1b Swanson SS Gomes/Amaya C Madrigal/Wisdom 3b PCA/Tauchman CF
UTIL: Masterbuoni
IOWA: Mervis Canario Vazquez B. Davis Tennessee: Alcantara
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Feb 6, 2024 12:04:00 GMT -5
For those who have seen him what do you think of his abilities on defense? The only things I’ve caught are he isn’t a great defender but he also took some positive strides, specifically with his footwork, last season. I think there is a general misconception about his defense and it's because he'e been moved around a lot. But that mainly comes from LA trying to pave him a path to the majors and I've mentioned that before and not that he's brutal in the field.. I don't know where he will end up , Cubs seem to be saying 1b and they think he can be a solid 1b , and I buy that unless they sign Bellinger then I'd like to see him get a lot of time at 3b. His bat , I'm not too worried about at all , he seems like a legit hitter with good plate discipline and pitch recognition and he was just the MVP of the PCL in which his team won a championship and he was in the final three for Milb hitting prospect of the year which went to Jackson Holliday. There are people put off by his age and him not having a set position , while that can be a worry , you should to consider he was drafted in 2019 , signed late and only got into 10 games that year. Next season was a total loss because of Covid when there was no minor league season. And since then he's made steady upward progress and would have been in the majors and getting a legit chance with most other teams last season , a season that in only 98 games he had 57 extra base hits 26 doubles, 4 triples, 27 homers and 90 rbi's , he also cut his strike outs way down and his walk to strike outs is pretty impressive 65/88. There is no misconception about his defense. He's not considered a good defender. "There are people put off by his age and him not having a set position , while that can be a worry , you should to consider he was drafted in 2019 , signed late and only got into 10 games that year. Next season was a total loss because of Covid when there was no minor league season." For me, I really dislike this excuse. Everyone lost time, not just Busch. There are a lot of guys from his same draft thriving in the MLB right now. Busch wasn't the only player from that draft impacted by COVID. To say you're not too worried at all about his bat is ridiculous. Busch is still a prospect who has concerns. Not to say he'll be a dud, but the Cubs seem to be relying on him to have every dat at bats. Again, like I said in another thread. I don't mind the addition of Busch, but I do not like what seems to be the reason they added him and that seems to be the every day 1B. We'll see, but again, more reliance on an unknown at the MLB level. Cubs shouldn't be operating this way.
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Post by cfin on Feb 6, 2024 12:35:42 GMT -5
Is this where the Cubs are at? Hoerner 2b Happ LF Suzuki RF Morel DH Busch/Wisdom 1b Swanson SS Gomes/Amaya C Madrigal/Wisdom 3b PCA/Tauchman CF UTIL: Masterbuoni IOWA: Mervis Canario Vazquez B. Davis Tennessee: Alcantara It looks like.
I can live with that... just I'd like to see an upgrade at 3B. But I have no clue what that upgrade would be.
You're really going to have to have Happ revert back to the power threat he was earlier in his career, Suzuki is going to have to be the player he was in the second half of last year and Morel and Busch have to be 30+ homerun guys if you're going to be successful with Madrigal and Wisdom at 3B.
3B is still the weak link.
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Post by batman66 on Feb 6, 2024 13:42:38 GMT -5
I think there is a general misconception about his defense and it's because he'e been moved around a lot. But that mainly comes from LA trying to pave him a path to the majors and I've mentioned that before and not that he's brutal in the field.. I don't know where he will end up , Cubs seem to be saying 1b and they think he can be a solid 1b , and I buy that unless they sign Bellinger then I'd like to see him get a lot of time at 3b. His bat , I'm not too worried about at all , he seems like a legit hitter with good plate discipline and pitch recognition and he was just the MVP of the PCL in which his team won a championship and he was in the final three for Milb hitting prospect of the year which went to Jackson Holliday. There are people put off by his age and him not having a set position , while that can be a worry , you should to consider he was drafted in 2019 , signed late and only got into 10 games that year. Next season was a total loss because of Covid when there was no minor league season. And since then he's made steady upward progress and would have been in the majors and getting a legit chance with most other teams last season , a season that in only 98 games he had 57 extra base hits 26 doubles, 4 triples, 27 homers and 90 rbi's , he also cut his strike outs way down and his walk to strike outs is pretty impressive 65/88. There is no misconception about his defense. He's not considered a good defender. "There are people put off by his age and him not having a set position , while that can be a worry , you should to consider he was drafted in 2019 , signed late and only got into 10 games that year. Next season was a total loss because of Covid when there was no minor league season." For me, I really dislike this excuse. Everyone lost time, not just Busch. There are a lot of guys from his same draft thriving in the MLB right now. Busch wasn't the only player from that draft impacted by COVID. To say you're not too worried at all about his bat is ridiculous. Busch is still a prospect who has concerns. Not to say he'll be a dud, but the Cubs seem to be relying on him to have every dat at bats. Again, like I said in another thread. I don't mind the addition of Busch, but I do not like what seems to be the reason they added him and that seems to be the every day 1B. We'll see, but again, more reliance on an unknown at the MLB level. Cubs shouldn't be operating this way. The guys thriving from that draft , we've been through this before , most were the elite high 1st rounders , not a sandwich pick and they were on shitty teams with a golden opportunity and opening for playing time. Rutschamn- Orioles, Witt- Royals , Carrol -DBacks , Abrams was kind of stuck in SD got his opeing when traded to the Nats etc etc etc BIG difference than being with the Dodgers. It's not like Busch struggled in the minors at any point , if he was with those other teams chances are he'd be thriving in the majors too. His minor league numbers sure as hell were not holding him back 2021 in 107 games 20 homers 67 rbi's.870 ops 2022 in 132 games 70 extra base hits 38 doubles, 32 homers 108 rbi's .881 ops 2023 in 98 games 26 doubles 27 homers 90 rbi's 1.049 ops He is a top 50 prospect , why the hell wouldn't they trade for him and expect him to start ?
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Feb 6, 2024 13:54:21 GMT -5
We're really now going to do high end vs low end 1st round? Carroll was the 16th pick. Volpe was the 30th pick. Stop it already.
This is not the NFL or NBA. That's not how it works. Prospects with almost zero MLB experience do not just get thrust in as an every day starter. This is NOT a knock on Busch. This is a knock on the way the Cubs are operating. I don't have to agree with it just because it's the team I like. Busch should be rotating HEAVILY to prove he can handle MLB pitchers. It may work out, but if it doesn't I'm sure you'll make excuses as to why it didn't.
Again, the Cubs should not be handing power positions (1B) to players with zero MLB success and expect success, especially when the Cubs lack power in the middle of the order. This move seems "cheap".
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Post by irishcubfan on Feb 6, 2024 14:10:14 GMT -5
We're really now going to do high end vs low end 1st round? Carroll was the 16th pick. Volpe was the 30th pick. Stop it already. This is not the NFL or NBA. That's not how it works. Prospects with almost zero MLB experience do not just get thrust in as an every day starter. This is NOT a knock on Busch. This is a knock on the way the Cubs are operating. I don't have to agree with it just because it's the team I like. Busch should be rotating HEAVILY to prove he can handle MLB pitchers. It may work out, but if it doesn't I'm sure you'll make excuses as to why it didn't. Again, the Cubs should not be handing power positions (1B) to players with zero MLB success and expect success, especially when the Cubs lack power in the middle of the order. This move seems "cheap". I for sure want him over Hosmer, Mancini, Mervis. The first two had almost zero chance of success and I am guessing they were signed to appease the former manager. Nothing wrong with giving him an opportunity as there are not many options out there. Bellinger could be a fit/fall back but I am guessing he prefers CF. Hoskins may have been a decent DH but who knows with his injury recovery? Would you want Brandon Belt over Busch? I liked the move of trading for Busch, if his bat is as good as reports say it was well worth it.
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Post by cfin on Feb 6, 2024 14:12:32 GMT -5
Again, the Cubs should not be handing power positions (1B) to players with zero MLB success and expect success, especially when the Cubs lack power in the middle of the order. This move seems "cheap". I think this is how you build sustaining success. They did the same thing with Rizzo. Take a chance with a guy with minor league success and hope that can translate to the majors. I will concede that just because Busch had success in the minors, doesn't mean he will at the majors. But in order for a team to be successful, you have to have some players that are high performing and cheap. You can't dole out $30M AAV contracts to all 9 positions. What disappoints me with the Busch trade, is why did they sour on Mervis so quickly? And what does this do to fix the 3B problem? If they had traded for Busch and then turned around and traded Mervis (not by himself) for something to fix the 3B problem, then this move would have made a ton of sense. This trade has the makings of a trade that didn't have a lot of foresight. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad trade. If you're able to trade for a cost control, potentially potent bat for not a lot of trade capital, you certainly do it. But the trade didn't really answer any question marks.
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Post by batman66 on Feb 6, 2024 14:17:57 GMT -5
We're really now going to do high end vs low end 1st round? Carroll was the 16th pick. Volpe was the 30th pick. Stop it already. This is not the NFL or NBA. That's not how it works. Prospects with almost zero MLB experience do not just get thrust in as an every day starter. This is NOT a knock on Busch. This is a knock on the way the Cubs are operating. I don't have to agree with it just because it's the team I like. Busch should be rotating HEAVILY to prove he can handle MLB pitchers. It may work out, but if it doesn't I'm sure you'll make excuses as to why it didn't. Again, the Cubs should not be handing power positions (1B) to players with zero MLB success and expect success, especially when the Cubs lack power in the middle of the order. This move seems "cheap". Yes , there is a big difference between top level first rounders, you know it , we all know it. There is a different trajectory in players , when we are talking elite talents like Rutschman, Witt etc who again were drafted high by a shitty team. Both their talent level and the organization they were in gave them a golden opportunity , didn't exactly have to fight hard to get their chance because of both talent and opening. Like I said , did it look like Busch's numbers held him back? He would have probably already gotten his prolonged chance in almost any other organization , hell including the Cubs , after his 2022 minor league season we would have been looking at him in a much higher regard than Mervis because Busch already had the prospect ranking and belief of his talents by scouts , unlike Mervis. I don't see why they should not give him every opportunity to start and be part of the everyday line up . If they don't sign Bellinger and Busch is the only bat they add then I agree with you and the "cheap" comment. But look at the big picture, the one you don't seem to agree with or really get , and that's fine, your opinion. But it's been about 2024 and beyond, not just winning in 2024 and developing a core who can have sustained success. He's a well regarded top 50 prospect who could be playing for them the next 6 years who has legit 30 hr 100 rbi potential , yes it's just potential at this point and he could struggle or he could take off and they seem to be banking on him taking off. Is it a gamble sure , but so is penning the future on PCA, Caissie, Alcantara, Horton etc , they were going with a home grown youth movement and to add in veterans along the way like Swanson , it wasn't lets just stock the farm and then go ape shit signing veteran players because they are proven. They are banking on the youth working and will add long term pieces along the way that fit in.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Feb 6, 2024 14:24:42 GMT -5
We're really now going to do high end vs low end 1st round? Carroll was the 16th pick. Volpe was the 30th pick. Stop it already. This is not the NFL or NBA. That's not how it works. Prospects with almost zero MLB experience do not just get thrust in as an every day starter. This is NOT a knock on Busch. This is a knock on the way the Cubs are operating. I don't have to agree with it just because it's the team I like. Busch should be rotating HEAVILY to prove he can handle MLB pitchers. It may work out, but if it doesn't I'm sure you'll make excuses as to why it didn't. Again, the Cubs should not be handing power positions (1B) to players with zero MLB success and expect success, especially when the Cubs lack power in the middle of the order. This move seems "cheap". I for sure want him over Hosmer, Mancini, Mervis. The first two had almost zero chance of success and I am guessing they were signed to appease the former manager. Nothing wrong with giving him an opportunity as there are not many options out there. Bellinger could be a fit/fall back but I am guessing he prefers CF. Hoskins may have been a decent DH but who knows with his injury recovery? Would you want Brandon Belt over Busch? I liked the move of trading for Busch, if his bat is as good as reports say it was well worth it. I agree with that regarding 1B as well, again, those were "cheap" options. I don't mind the Busch trade, I just don't think I like the reason why the made it. My issue is going to be that the Cubs may be relying on 3 prospects/young players to fill CF, 3B and 1B if they don't sign anyone else. That's a tall order for those players for an 83 win team that was ready to take another step forward.
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Post by batman66 on Feb 6, 2024 14:26:27 GMT -5
Again, the Cubs should not be handing power positions (1B) to players with zero MLB success and expect success, especially when the Cubs lack power in the middle of the order. This move seems "cheap". I think this is how you build sustaining success. They did the same thing with Rizzo. Take a chance with a guy with minor league success and hope that can translate to the majors. I will concede that just because Busch had success in the minors, doesn't mean he will at the majors. But in order for a team to be successful, you have to have some players that are high performing and cheap. You can't dole out $30M AAV contracts to all 9 positions. What disappoints me with the Busch trade, is why did they sour on Mervis so quickly? And what does this do to fix the 3B problem? If they had traded for Busch and then turned around and traded Mervis (not by himself) for something to fix the 3B problem, then this move would have made a ton of sense. This trade has the makings of a trade that didn't have a lot of foresight. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad trade. If you're able to trade for a cost control, potentially potent bat for not a lot of trade capital, you certainly do it. But the trade didn't really answer any question marks. They may have not "soured" on Mervis, they maye have already thought he wasn't going to be what us fans thought he'd be and were never too high on him and that could explain why he wasn't added to the 40 man and called up in 2022 and why he started 2023 in the minors as well and then also didn't get a re-call. The trade may have not had a lot of foresight because prospects of his caliber aren't usually readily available. And he probably only became available after LA signed Ohtani because that pretty much blocked his last path to LA and it would be a waste for them not to get something for him instead of leaving him in AAA and selling high on him off another monster year where he just won the PCL MVP on a championship team
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Post by irishcubfan on Feb 6, 2024 14:28:11 GMT -5
Again, the Cubs should not be handing power positions (1B) to players with zero MLB success and expect success, especially when the Cubs lack power in the middle of the order. This move seems "cheap". I think this is how you build sustaining success. They did the same thing with Rizzo. Take a chance with a guy with minor league success and hope that can translate to the majors. I will concede that just because Busch had success in the minors, doesn't mean he will at the majors. But in order for a team to be successful, you have to have some players that are high performing and cheap. You can't dole out $30M AAV contracts to all 9 positions. What disappoints me with the Busch trade, is why did they sour on Mervis so quickly? And what does this do to fix the 3B problem? If they had traded for Busch and then turned around and traded Mervis (not by himself) for something to fix the 3B problem, then this move would have made a ton of sense. This trade has the makings of a trade that didn't have a lot of foresight. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad trade. If you're able to trade for a cost control, potentially potent bat for not a lot of trade capital, you certainly do it. But the trade didn't really answer any question marks. Regarding Mervis, I think it is pitch recognition, lack of ability to hit certain pitches, and maybe even a lack of ability to adjust. I believe most organizations view him as an AAAA player. The writing has been on the wall with the many acquisitions. Wouldn't surprise me if he is traded for a flyer prospect or even DFA later on. I think the Busch trade was a plan B type move after the pursuit of Ohtani and/or Yamamoto or whomever did not work out. Guessing with how cautious the front office appears to be that they don't make moves on a whim.
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