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Post by foolforthecity on Oct 4, 2023 12:43:18 GMT -5
You’re not getting him for Killian and Mervis. More like Brown and Alcantra. No way
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Post by kfidd on Oct 4, 2023 13:09:10 GMT -5
You’re not getting him for Killian and Mervis. More like Brown and Alcantra. No way I think it’s likely somewhere in between. Two top 75-100 prospects for one year of Alonso is too high a price and I don’t believe there’s really any precedent for that. Mervis and Killian, however, also seems too low. I’d guess one of Brown/Wicks plus a lower level lottery guy might get it done normally, but I also fully expect the Brewers to be in on this at bare minimum. A bidding war between us and them won’t be fun, and I know I’m a broken record on this, but the Mets want to eat money to increase the prospect return. Doesn’t make a ton of sense for the Cubs, but the Brewers? Definitely.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Oct 4, 2023 13:16:18 GMT -5
People are looking way into Alonso .217 average, while it is not good but he had a .205 BABIP which means he was very unlucky, so the odds say he will be more the 135-140 WRC+ guy again next season while batting .250+ avg. who will hit 40+ bombs and drive in over a 100+ RBIS especially if you sandwhich him between Bellinger and Suzuki in the middle of the lineup. People who are comparing him to Patrick Wisdom, but a HUUGE Difference between the two, is ALonso had a 22.9% SO% in 2023 while Wisdom had a 36%, so no they are not similar type hitters, Alonso has the massive power but can also put the ball in the field and drive in a ton of runs, while Wisdom is a true 2 outcome hitter Homer or Strikeout. Sign me up for Alonso at 1B and batting cleanup in 2024!! Everyone wants a .300 hitter, but think about this... 9 guys in ALL MLB hit .300 or better this year, NINE (Bellinger is one of them). I'm ok with Alonso, but again, it means losing Belly and Alonso is the only splash, then the Cubs took a step back IMO
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Oct 4, 2023 13:18:10 GMT -5
You’re not getting him for Killian and Mervis. More like Brown and Alcantra. No way Yes, you'll have to add a top flight pitcher... like Brown. Shit, the Mets might even ask for Wicks.
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Post by cfin on Oct 4, 2023 13:32:28 GMT -5
I'm not really on the Alonso bandwagon yet.
But if Bellinger and Alonso are on the team, I'd imagine Alonso would DH most of the time, with Bellinger at 1B.
Happ in LF, PCA in CF, and Suzuki in RF.
Morel at 3B.
to start the season, I could see Bellinger in CF and Alonso at 1B and who knows at DH.
But I'd also kind of wonder if Canario/Mervis at DH would be just as a good as Alonso at DH? Mervis didn't exactly impress me this year. Canario... didn't really impress, but didn't really disappoint either.
Definitely need more pop in the lineup. But having Morel in the lineup from the start should help. Having Canario and/or Mervis in the lineup (and performing like they did in the minors, which is always the question) would also help.
Ideally you'd probably trade Happ or Suzuki (probably Happ) and put Canario in the outfield. Then Bellinger at 1B and either Mervis or Alonso at DH. And if all of those are hitting with power as one would expect, then that could be a really dangerous lineup.
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Post by holycow23 on Oct 4, 2023 14:15:48 GMT -5
Pete Alonso batted .271 in 2022. Entering this season he had a career 261 average. In his career he has averaged 154 Ks per 162 games. Not quite Wisdom or Schwarbs. Most homers in the MLB since 2019. Pete Alonso 192. 17 ahead of Olson and 18 ahead of Judge and Schwarbs. Players 5 thru 10 all in the 140s.
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Post by holycow23 on Oct 4, 2023 14:23:49 GMT -5
Not that I am a huge Happer fan but I really dont understand all the dislike. He is easily a top 10 leftfielder in the game. Probably more like 7th or 8th. 20 homer 80 rbi plus 350 obp guys (besides a couple bone head plays) plays above average defense. Those guys dont grow on trees. The problem is he isnt a 3 hole hitter. If Happ was the cubs 6 or 7 hole hitter would he be a big issue?
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Post by rvn11 on Oct 4, 2023 15:19:51 GMT -5
Not that I am a huge Happer fan but I really dont understand all the dislike. He is easily a top 10 leftfielder in the game. Probably more like 7th or 8th. 20 homer 80 rbi plus 350 obp guys (besides a couple bone head plays) plays above average defense. Those guys dont grow on trees. The problem is he isnt a 3 hole hitter. If Happ was the cubs 6 or 7 hole hitter would he be a big issue? I don't think that it's as much dislike for Happ, just indifference, hoping for more. He needs to jump maybe not up to Bellinger performance territory, but a little closer given his role in the lineup and on the team. He and Suzuki had similar performances this year, and Seiya played 20 less games, and some while still recovering from the abdominal injury. Happ has so much talent and offensive ability but hasn't made much progression since he came up. We keep waiting for him to break out but he keeps showing signs of doing so, only to fall back into big slumps.
Defensively I have never been high on him, I felt like 2022 he had an aberration of a year defensively and was perhaps over-rewarded with a gold glove. I don't ever recall him in Gold Glove conversations prior to last season. His arm is accurate but not exactly strong, although he came up huge in that July 4 Brewers series. This year he made several really bad errors down the stretch that hurt this team significantly.
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Post by holycow23 on Oct 4, 2023 15:50:28 GMT -5
Not that I am a huge Happer fan but I really dont understand all the dislike. He is easily a top 10 leftfielder in the game. Probably more like 7th or 8th. 20 homer 80 rbi plus 350 obp guys (besides a couple bone head plays) plays above average defense. Those guys dont grow on trees. The problem is he isnt a 3 hole hitter. If Happ was the cubs 6 or 7 hole hitter would he be a big issue? I don't think that it's as much dislike for Happ, just indifference, hoping for more. He needs to jump maybe not up to Bellinger performance territory, but a little closer given his role in the lineup and on the team. He and Suzuki had similar performances this year, and Seiya played 20 less games, and some while still recovering from the abdominal injury. Happ has so much talent and offensive ability but hasn't made much progression since he came up. We keep waiting for him to break out but he keeps showing signs of doing so, only to fall back into big slumps.
Defensively I have never been high on him, I felt like 2022 he had an aberration of a year defensively and was perhaps over-rewarded with a gold glove. I don't ever recall him in Gold Glove conversations prior to last season. His arm is accurate but not exactly strong, although he came up huge in that July 4 Brewers series. This year he made several really bad errors down the stretch that hurt this team significantly.
(Those guys dont grow on trees) Looked it up. 20 players did that this season. Seiya was 6 rbi's short. I understand where you are coming from cause alot of the time I feel the same way. But his numbers this year are comparable to Yelich and Arozarena in left. And for his contract his numbers were comparable to Nimmo which they both will have about the same AAV but Mets got that because they are paying it until he is 37. Cubs are paying Happ until he is 31. Guess my point is I dont think Happ is a problem just the way he is used which leads to higher expectations. Just saying if the lineup was 2 thru 7 Nico Belly Alonso Suzuki Dansby then Happ dont think he would be an issue.
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Post by fine09 on Oct 4, 2023 15:58:02 GMT -5
People are looking way into Alonso .217 average, while it is not good but he had a .205 BABIP which means he was very unlucky, so the odds say he will be more the 135-140 WRC+ guy again next season while batting .250+ avg. who will hit 40+ bombs and drive in over a 100+ RBIS especially if you sandwhich him between Bellinger and Suzuki in the middle of the lineup. People who are comparing him to Patrick Wisdom, but a HUUGE Difference between the two, is ALonso had a 22.9% SO% in 2023 while Wisdom had a 36%, so no they are not similar type hitters, Alonso has the massive power but can also put the ball in the field and drive in a ton of runs, while Wisdom is a true 2 outcome hitter Homer or Strikeout. Sign me up for Alonso at 1B and batting cleanup in 2024!! I sure wasn’t saying Wisdow was Alonso, I said his numbers were very similar to Schwarbs if he had the extra 300 AB’s. Now if you do plug in Wisdoms numbers vs Alonso then Alonso is much much better - but he’s not 40 times better for 40 times the extra cost PLUS at least 1 top 100 prospect & probably another one at least in Mervis. AND, for that along with maybe 20 million we get him for 1 year & lose the prospects forever. Hopefully the Cubs brass don’t do that & I’d personally be shocked if they did..
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Post by fine09 on Oct 4, 2023 15:59:20 GMT -5
People are looking way into Alonso .217 average, while it is not good but he had a .205 BABIP which means he was very unlucky, so the odds say he will be more the 135-140 WRC+ guy again next season while batting .250+ avg. who will hit 40+ bombs and drive in over a 100+ RBIS especially if you sandwhich him between Bellinger and Suzuki in the middle of the lineup. People who are comparing him to Patrick Wisdom, but a HUUGE Difference between the two, is ALonso had a 22.9% SO% in 2023 while Wisdom had a 36%, so no they are not similar type hitters, Alonso has the massive power but can also put the ball in the field and drive in a ton of runs, while Wisdom is a true 2 outcome hitter Homer or Strikeout. Sign me up for Alonso at 1B and batting cleanup in 2024!! Everyone wants a .300 hitter, but think about this... 9 guys in ALL MLB hit .300 or better this year, NINE (Bellinger is one of them). I'm ok with Alonso, but again, it means losing Belly and Alonso is the only splash, then the Cubs took a step back IMO A huge step back and gave away some very good prospect capital which could be used for a much longer lasting impact player.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2023 17:07:29 GMT -5
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Post by batman66 on Oct 4, 2023 18:17:51 GMT -5
Well today is a new day and I'm back on board with Alonso. I was put off by the average this season, but it's not typically him , he usually hits for a decent average and I think he'd hit even better in Wrigley , he'd be a beast of an RBI guy . He supposedly wants to be a Cub and if the Cubs do want him long term and not just for 2024 then there is the thought to wait until free agency. A couple wrinkles yesterday , it could just be Stearns saying what he's supposed to but he said he expects Alonso to be starting for the Mets opening day. Another wrinkle , Alonso was supposedly so pissed they fired Showalter that he wanted to meet with Cohen face to face so he's disgruntled and apparently already not liking what Stearns is doing. final answer bat or to be determined lol I'll let you know tomorrow
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Post by batman66 on Oct 4, 2023 18:21:55 GMT -5
You’re not getting him for Killian and Mervis. More like Brown and Alcantra. No way It depends , if he's traded as a 1 year rental there is no way they are getting that much for him. If he's traded with a negotiation window for an extension , they maybe.
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Post by batman66 on Oct 4, 2023 18:26:16 GMT -5
That's some funny stuff right there !
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Post by okeecub on Oct 4, 2023 18:35:24 GMT -5
final answer bat or to be determined lol I'll let you know tomorrow we need to establish over/under on changes haha
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2023 1:48:41 GMT -5
On Soto being traded, Preller says never say never. Translation = Godfather haul methinks. www.mlb.com/padres/news/a-j-preller-bob-melvin-will-return-to-padres-for-2024On Soto's future in San Diego Juan Soto will be entering his final season before he’s set to become a free agent. As such, it seems like all possibilities are on the table. Preller said the team’s “first path” would be to explore a potential extension with Soto, who is coming off an All-Star campaign in which he posted a .275/.410/.519 slash line and a career-high 35 homers. But considering all the Padres gave up to acquire Soto -- and with Soto due for a raise in his final year of arbitration eligibility -- rumors have emerged that the team might consider trading Soto. Preller didn’t exactly shut down those rumors, saying only, “We've never been a group that says no to anything. I wouldn't read into that. That's just kind of the way we operate.”
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Post by kfidd on Oct 5, 2023 7:36:52 GMT -5
Alonso just changed his agent to Scott Boras. Ugh.
I don’t believe you make any such trade like this without the intention of extending him, and now the Boras factor…
Regarding Boras, I also don’t think the front office is going to have any interest on waiting until mid January to seal in their big free agent additions. There’s too much risk in it. If the rumors of Bellinger’s decision lingering well into the new year are true, and with Boras as his agent it certainly is plausible, I think the front office would be prudent to make other plans. This was a huge talking point here when many were Ohtani was much more actively discussed, they didn’t want the front office to focus so much on Ohtani that they end up neglecting Bellinger and see him go elsewhere. Now it needs to be considered how major the market for Bellinger could be that putting off other big acquisitions or ideas so they can enter a bidding war for Bellinger that may not be resolved until mid January at the earliest could be a recipe for massive disaster.
I think the Cubs safest bet to a strong off-season of roster improvement should begin with Yamamoto. The market for him should be aggressive as well, but we all know the narratives of why he makes so much sense. Very young, elite talent, purely monetary cost. Be very aggressive on Yamamoto and commit to beating all other parties. Get him inked early in the off-season and then let the rest of the plan A-B-C situations unfold. Bellinger had a great year. I don’t think the front office is dumb enough to put all other plans on hold just because Boras is his agent and will drag this out until mid January and beyond.
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Post by batman66 on Oct 5, 2023 8:03:22 GMT -5
Alonso just changed his agent to Scott Boras. Ugh. I don’t believe you make any such trade like this without the intention of extending him, and now the Boras factor… Regarding Boras, I also don’t think the front office is going to have any interest on waiting until mid January to seal in their big free agent additions. There’s too much risk in it. If the rumors of Bellinger’s decision lingering well into the new year are true, and with Boras as his agent it certainly is plausible, I think the front office would be prudent to make other plans. This was a huge talking point here when many were Ohtani was much more actively discussed, they didn’t want the front office to focus so much on Ohtani that they end up neglecting Bellinger and see him go elsewhere. Now it needs to be considered how major the market for Bellinger could be that putting off other big acquisitions or ideas so they can enter a bidding war for Bellinger that may not be resolved until mid January at the earliest could be a recipe for massive disaster. I think the Cubs safest bet to a strong off-season of roster improvement should begin with Yamamoto. The market for him should be aggressive as well, but we all know the narratives of why he makes so much sense. Very young, elite talent, purely monetary cost. Be very aggressive on Yamamoto and commit to beating all other parties. Get him inked early in the off-season and then let the rest of the plan A-B-C situations unfold. Bellinger had a great year. I don’t think the front office is dumb enough to put all other plans on hold just because Boras is his agent and will drag this out until mid January and beyond. Well so much for the Jesse Rogers talk that he'd sign a moderate type extension with the Cubs because of the relationship they have with his agent. I think the Cubs will make a strong early push for Bellinger in the exclusive time frame they have to negotiate with him , but it needs to be an all out market value offer and not some half assed offer expecting a discount. I don't think they want to wait out a long free agency and then possibly lose out on other options and possible trades waiting on Bellinger. Regarding Alonso , my guess is he probably now stays in NY and signs an extension , they seem to have no issues signing Boras clients. I agree on Yamamoto but that's going to be a really hot market like you said so as much as they might want him , he has to want them.
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Post by kfidd on Oct 5, 2023 8:06:53 GMT -5
On Soto being traded, Preller says never say never. Translation = Godfather haul methinks. www.mlb.com/padres/news/a-j-preller-bob-melvin-will-return-to-padres-for-2024On Soto's future in San Diego Juan Soto will be entering his final season before he’s set to become a free agent. As such, it seems like all possibilities are on the table. Preller said the team’s “first path” would be to explore a potential extension with Soto, who is coming off an All-Star campaign in which he posted a .275/.410/.519 slash line and a career-high 35 homers. But considering all the Padres gave up to acquire Soto -- and with Soto due for a raise in his final year of arbitration eligibility -- rumors have emerged that the team might consider trading Soto. Preller didn’t exactly shut down those rumors, saying only, “We've never been a group that says no to anything. I wouldn't read into that. That's just kind of the way we operate.” Yes please… 🤤 Yamamoto and Soto. Two elite players on each side of the ball that are only 25 each come next opening day. Build with and around them for the next decade. Soto is the left handed presence we’d miss if we lose and don’t replace Bellinger’s production, but Soto is much more productive and consistent than Bellinger’s bat has been since 2019. He would be a massive upgrade. The Padres trade for Soto also included Bell so the exact value for 2.5 years of Soto is a bit murky, but essentially they gave up Abrams (#9), Hassell III (#21), Woods (#88), and an unranked Gore for him. Obviously the return is less now, but it’ll still bite. I’d offer two frameworks for a trade: Option A: Happ and one of our top two prospects in PCA or Horton - Want one of our top 2 in PCA or Horton? Have to convince Happ to waive his NTC and go to San Diego. Cubs clear 20m and a much more important outfield spot for Soto to take or DH. That also opens a critical pathway for a bat to emerge from the minors that doesn’t exist right now if we were to sign Bellinger or trade for Alonso. I don’t think this one is likely since the Padres want to clear money, but maybe the lure of PCA or Horton would be strong enough. Option B: two from our top 3-10, one outside top 10 - That could be Caissie and Wicks, or Shaw and Brown, Alcantara and Shaw. Then another guy in the 11-20 range. I don’t know and I wouldn’t care. We’d keep PCA and Horton and acquire Soto. Sign him to his 450m or whatever extension this off-season and be happy you’ve got your #2-3 hitter locked up for the next 10 years.
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