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Post by fine09 on Jun 15, 2023 14:43:51 GMT -5
I don't know how to take that other than he's not too happy about it and is already tired of being asked about it. But just because that's an organization stance to not talk about it in any aspect , it doesn't have to be the way a player handles it. Correct. Granted I’m just reading the printed words here and not watching a video or hearing him speak, but I took that the same way: he’s tired of talking about it when this regime’s stance on how they approach mid season discussions has been known rom day one. Behind. Closed. Doors. He might be a bit iffed as well that Stroman went public with it, but I’ll say again that A) this is what Stroman has always done by being very vocal and present on social media so no surprise there and B) I don’t see anything wrong with what he has said. ‘I want to be a Cub, they haven’t engaged yet despite my attempts to do so. I hope I remain a Cub.’ Just bullshitting here and not attempting to put words in mouths or stir the pot, but if ultimately the front office doesn’t like his loud social media personality that’s something they need to factor into their decision because I wouldn’t imagine that changing any time soon. Stroman is who he is. I think keeping everything private (as far as the Cubs FO) is a good policy, but it is also understandable that Marcus may now be pissed because they aren't acting on it right now.
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Post by batman66 on Jun 15, 2023 15:09:18 GMT -5
Correct. Granted I’m just reading the printed words here and not watching a video or hearing him speak, but I took that the same way: he’s tired of talking about it when this regime’s stance on how they approach mid season discussions has been known rom day one. Behind. Closed. Doors. He might be a bit iffed as well that Stroman went public with it, but I’ll say again that A) this is what Stroman has always done by being very vocal and present on social media so no surprise there and B) I don’t see anything wrong with what he has said. ‘I want to be a Cub, they haven’t engaged yet despite my attempts to do so. I hope I remain a Cub.’ Just bullshitting here and not attempting to put words in mouths or stir the pot, but if ultimately the front office doesn’t like his loud social media personality that’s something they need to factor into their decision because I wouldn’t imagine that changing any time soon. Stroman is who he is. I think keeping everything private (as far as the Cubs FO) is a good policy, but it is also understandable that Marcus may now be pissed because they aren't acting on it right now. I don't think he's even pissed . I think he flat out just wants to stay a Cub. I think his narrative is to put it out there that if there is a trade he doesn't want it to be played off by the team as well WE tried to negotiate a new contract (Rizzo situation) for example and the player wasn't biting so we had no choice. I get that because he made comments alluding to that , not pointing specifically at the Cubs, but what teams do in general . So he wants to make it clear he is NOT the guy behind a trade or a guy who's going to opt out because he wants to leave. I really hope they get something done, it doesn't make any sense why they would not want to keep him if they really plan on contending. You lose him , you take a big step backwards.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jun 16, 2023 8:28:28 GMT -5
I think keeping everything private (as far as the Cubs FO) is a good policy, but it is also understandable that Marcus may now be pissed because they aren't acting on it right now. I don't think he's even pissed . I think he flat out just wants to stay a Cub. I think his narrative is to put it out there that if there is a trade he doesn't want it to be played off by the team as well WE tried to negotiate a new contract (Rizzo situation) for example and the player wasn't biting so we had no choice. I get that because he made comments alluding to that , not pointing specifically at the Cubs, but what teams do in general . So he wants to make it clear he is NOT the guy behind a trade or a guy who's going to opt out because he wants to leave. I really hope they get something done, it doesn't make any sense why they would not want to keep him if they really plan on contending. You lose him , you take a big step backwards. This I agree with.
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Post by batman66 on Jun 16, 2023 8:56:43 GMT -5
I don't think he's even pissed . I think he flat out just wants to stay a Cub. I think his narrative is to put it out there that if there is a trade he doesn't want it to be played off by the team as well WE tried to negotiate a new contract (Rizzo situation) for example and the player wasn't biting so we had no choice. I get that because he made comments alluding to that , not pointing specifically at the Cubs, but what teams do in general . So he wants to make it clear he is NOT the guy behind a trade or a guy who's going to opt out because he wants to leave. I really hope they get something done, it doesn't make any sense why they would not want to keep him if they really plan on contending. You lose him , you take a big step backwards. This I agree with. He's the type of pitcher they should be looking for this winter, dependable veteran top end of the rotation type who keeps you in every game . So if they make no effort to sign him I'm going to be really puzzled as to what the hell they are trying to do here. Makes no sense at all why they would not want to sign a guy who clearly loves it here and who doesn't even want to test the free agent market to see if there are better options that no doubt would drive up his price . He's not the type that will lay down after signing a big contract so unless he's asking for 5 + years I don't see why they should have any reservations at all in keeping him here. How do you expect people to believe you are really trying to win in 2024 and beyond if you let go of a guy that's been one of the best pitchers in baseball righ now ? And I don't want to hear they are saving the payroll space for Ohtani because I have no confidence at all that they can sign him . Signing him would be about the only way I could justify not keeping Stro, and that's not going to happen.
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Post by batman66 on Jun 16, 2023 9:02:26 GMT -5
I don't think he's even pissed . I think he flat out just wants to stay a Cub. I think his narrative is to put it out there that if there is a trade he doesn't want it to be played off by the team as well WE tried to negotiate a new contract (Rizzo situation) for example and the player wasn't biting so we had no choice. I get that because he made comments alluding to that , not pointing specifically at the Cubs, but what teams do in general . So he wants to make it clear he is NOT the guy behind a trade or a guy who's going to opt out because he wants to leave. I really hope they get something done, it doesn't make any sense why they would not want to keep him if they really plan on contending. You lose him , you take a big step backwards. This I agree with. What do you think would be a good contract for him/them ?
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Post by kfidd on Jun 16, 2023 9:43:58 GMT -5
He's the type of pitcher they should be looking for this winter, dependable veteran top end of the rotation type who keeps you in every game . So if they make no effort to sign him I'm going to be really puzzled as to what the hell they are trying to do here. Makes no sense at all why they would not want to sign a guy who clearly loves it here and who doesn't even want to test the free agent market to see if there are better options that no doubt would drive up his price . He's not the type that will lay down after signing a big contract so unless he's asking for 5 + years I don't see why they should have any reservations at all in keeping him here. How do you expect people to believe you are really trying to win in 2024 and beyond if you let go of a guy that's been one of the best pitchers in baseball righ now ? And I don't want to hear they are saving the payroll space for Ohtani because I have no confidence at all that they can sign him . Signing him would be about the only way I could justify not keeping Stro, and that's not going to happen. I think just solely focusing on Stroman here and not considering the market at hand (both this July and this offseason) is a bit too narrow sighted. It can (and does) make sense to extend Stroman now to have one less part of the 2024+ equation to worry about. It can also (and does) make sense that the Cubs have other holes to fill, specifically on the offensive side of the ball, and the options to improve this area in the free agency period ahead are very slim (as opposed to the starting pitching market, which while you don’t want to entertain Ohtani there are other strong options besides him). Jed says they’ve had talks, and Stroman has put it out there that they’ve attempted to engage. I’m just spitballing here but if the Stro camp were open to a ~3 year deal it would already be done just as they were quick to hammer out extensions for Happ and Hoerner. Different scenarios, but the one that really stands out is the age difference. They showed they are willing to do longer deals (Swanson) for the right player, but if Stroman at what will be age 33 is really seeking a ~5 year deal (nothing suggests that he is, I’m just guessing that he could be considering this his likely last chance to cash in and his stellar performance) I’m not sure that will jive with Jed. A longer deal for a starting pitcher could be reserved for someone younger (which exists in the ahead FA market), or there is plenty to choose from in the 32+ bracket as well that could be had on shorter deals in such a deep class. It’s all hypothetical, we’re all just guessing their thoughts and intentions. But I don’t believe it’s so far fetched to see why they might be hesitant.
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Post by batman66 on Jun 16, 2023 10:21:04 GMT -5
He's the type of pitcher they should be looking for this winter, dependable veteran top end of the rotation type who keeps you in every game . So if they make no effort to sign him I'm going to be really puzzled as to what the hell they are trying to do here. Makes no sense at all why they would not want to sign a guy who clearly loves it here and who doesn't even want to test the free agent market to see if there are better options that no doubt would drive up his price . He's not the type that will lay down after signing a big contract so unless he's asking for 5 + years I don't see why they should have any reservations at all in keeping him here. How do you expect people to believe you are really trying to win in 2024 and beyond if you let go of a guy that's been one of the best pitchers in baseball righ now ? And I don't want to hear they are saving the payroll space for Ohtani because I have no confidence at all that they can sign him . Signing him would be about the only way I could justify not keeping Stro, and that's not going to happen. I think just solely focusing on Stroman here and not considering the market at hand (both this July and this offseason) is a bit too narrow sighted. It can (and does) make sense to extend Stroman now to have one less part of the 2024+ equation to worry about. It can also (and does) make sense that the Cubs have other holes to fill, specifically on the offensive side of the ball, and the options to improve this area in the free agency period ahead are very slim (as opposed to the starting pitching market, which while you don’t want to entertain Ohtani there are other strong options besides him). Jed says they’ve had talks, and Stroman has put it out there that they’ve attempted to engage. I’m just spitballing here but if the Stro camp were open to a ~3 year deal it would already be done just as they were quick to hammer out extensions for Happ and Hoerner. Different scenarios, but the one that really stands out is the age difference. They showed they are willing to do longer deals (Swanson) for the right player, but if Stroman at what will be age 33 is really seeking a ~5 year deal (nothing suggests that he is, I’m just guessing that he could be considering this his likely last chance to cash in and his stellar performance) I’m not sure that will jive with Jed. A longer deal for a starting pitcher could be reserved for someone younger (which exists in the ahead FA market), or there is plenty to choose from in the 32+ bracket as well that could be had on shorter deals in such a deep class. It’s all hypothetical, we’re all just guessing their thoughts and intentions. But I don’t believe it’s so far fetched to see why they might be hesitant. I know they have other holes to fill. They also have a shit ton of desirable minor leaguers that can be used in trade to help solve that issue. As we've talked about before,yes the free agent SP market is pretty good this winter but my point it , you already know what you're getting with Stro and you know he can pitch here, wants to be here etc. Yes there will be other younger arms out there but the Cubs seem very reluctant to go the years it takes to sign top free agent pitchers and seem way more comfortable on the 2-3-4 year range and not 5 and 5+ which you'd figure most younger top pitchers would be after , so that's another reason why Stro seems to be a better fit , that is unless he is standing firm on 5+ years which I doubt. If he was more concerned with cashing in on his last chance for a big contract , he's not a dumb guy he would atleast test the free agent market but he's clearly said he doesn't even want to do that so that also tells me , atleast I think , that he prefers the team of his choice over the bigger payday and it's not about money to him. And it's just an intangible, but it's going to make the off season a helluva lot easier if they already have an ace on the staff. In reality , maybe they don't need to spend big money on SP , they have a lot of young arms in the system they can hope for to fill a rotation because most of them are now at AA or above or should be by seasons end , but you can't depend on that to happen with the way pitchers get injured these days. We don't know what he's asking for , but to me the only way it makes sense for them to not show legit interest or make a strong effort is if it's a strong 5 year stance. I'd give him 3 in a hearbeat , maybe with a 4th option.
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Post by kfidd on Jun 16, 2023 10:39:18 GMT -5
I know they have other holes to fill. They also have a shit ton of desirable minor leaguers that can be used in trade to help solve that issue. As we've talked about before,yes the free agent SP market is pretty good this winter but my point it , you already know what you're getting with Stro and you know he can pitch here, wants to be here etc. Yes there will be other younger arms out there but the Cubs seem very reluctant to go the years it takes to sign top free agent pitchers and seem way more comfortable on the 2-3-4 year range and not 5 and 5+ which you'd figure most younger top pitchers would be after , so that's another reason why Stro seems to be a better fit , that is unless he is standing firm on 5+ years which I doubt. If he was more concerned with cashing in on his last chance for a big contract , he's not a dumb guy he would atleast test the free agent market but he's clearly said he doesn't even want to do that so that also tells me , atleast I think , that he prefers the team of his choice over the bigger payday and it's not about money to him. And it's just an intangible, but it's going to make the off season a helluva lot easier if they already have an ace on the staff. In reality , maybe they don't need to spend big money on SP , they have a lot of young arms in the system they can hope for to fill a rotation because most of them are now at AA or above or should be by seasons end , but you can't depend on that to happen with the way pitchers get injured these days. We don't know what he's asking for , but to me the only way it makes sense for them to not show legit interest or make a strong effort is if it's a strong 5 year stance. I'd give him 3 in a hearbeat , maybe with a 4th option. That all sounds logical and could be the case. I’d love for them to deal some minor league depth for the right bat and extend Stroman now. I think that sounds great and would also give him a 3 year extension in a heartbeat. I still don’t see why that’s what he’d be looking for personally. But if they end up going these routes you outlined in all for it.
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Post by batman66 on Jun 16, 2023 10:46:14 GMT -5
I know they have other holes to fill. They also have a shit ton of desirable minor leaguers that can be used in trade to help solve that issue. As we've talked about before,yes the free agent SP market is pretty good this winter but my point it , you already know what you're getting with Stro and you know he can pitch here, wants to be here etc. Yes there will be other younger arms out there but the Cubs seem very reluctant to go the years it takes to sign top free agent pitchers and seem way more comfortable on the 2-3-4 year range and not 5 and 5+ which you'd figure most younger top pitchers would be after , so that's another reason why Stro seems to be a better fit , that is unless he is standing firm on 5+ years which I doubt. If he was more concerned with cashing in on his last chance for a big contract , he's not a dumb guy he would atleast test the free agent market but he's clearly said he doesn't even want to do that so that also tells me , atleast I think , that he prefers the team of his choice over the bigger payday and it's not about money to him. And it's just an intangible, but it's going to make the off season a helluva lot easier if they already have an ace on the staff. In reality , maybe they don't need to spend big money on SP , they have a lot of young arms in the system they can hope for to fill a rotation because most of them are now at AA or above or should be by seasons end , but you can't depend on that to happen with the way pitchers get injured these days. We don't know what he's asking for , but to me the only way it makes sense for them to not show legit interest or make a strong effort is if it's a strong 5 year stance. I'd give him 3 in a hearbeat , maybe with a 4th option. That all sounds logical and could be the case. I’d love for them to deal some minor league depth for the right bat and extend Stroman now. I think that sounds great and would also give him a 3 year extension in a heartbeat. I still don’t see why that’s what he’d be looking for personally. But if they end up going these routes you outlined in all for it. He's probably looking for 5 , but if this is where really wants to be he might have to settle for getting 4 and that even might take an option or incentive to kick it to the 4th . If it's all about getting 5 or more he probably knows he's much better atleast testing free agency because I'm sure he could get that from somebody.
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Post by TheChico on Jun 16, 2023 11:00:12 GMT -5
Cubs FO is just keeping all options open at the moment, that is all they are doing and the correct approach.
Deadline Approach:
Sellers = Trade Buyers = Extend
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jun 16, 2023 11:32:31 GMT -5
What do you think would be a good contract for him/them ? I think you add 2 years and put a mutual option on the back end.... so for example, pick up 2024, add 25 and 26, make 27 a mutual year (with hefty buyout to entice the Cubs to keep it mutual). If the Cubs are serious about contending then I think this fits right in to that, with his age. Stroman doesn't strike me as a guy who's over powering and may get hurt, you never know, but I don't mind that 2 additional years after 2024 with a mutual 2027 if he's ok with that too.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jun 16, 2023 11:41:36 GMT -5
Cubs FO is just keeping all options open at the moment, that is all they are doing and the correct approach. Deadline Approach: Sellers = Trade Buyers = Extend I mean I guess I can see that. The best bat target, outside of Ohtani, would probably be Matt Chapman to cover 3B. He's an FA after this season and putting up good numbers. He'll be age 31 in year 1 of a new deal though so what kind of money are the Cubs willing to give him and what will he be asking for? I like Chapman, he's got the 6th best wRC+ in MLB amongst 3B and also has the 2nd best fWAR only behind Jose Ramirez. Targeting Matt Chapman and Urias may be a good offseason start. I just think Ohtani is not an option.
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Post by kfidd on Jun 16, 2023 12:16:11 GMT -5
What do you think would be a good contract for him/them ? I think you add 2 years and put a mutual option on the back end.... so for example, pick up 2024, add 25 and 26, make 27 a mutual year (with hefty buyout to entice the Cubs to keep it mutual). If the Cubs are serious about contending then I think this fits right in to that, with his age. Stroman doesn't strike me as a guy who's over powering and may get hurt, you never know, but I don't mind that 2 additional years after 2024 with a mutual 2027 if he's ok with that too. I think it’s worth looking at recent deals in free agency to find a comp for Stroman, and the closest I can see is Chris Bassitt. Stays healthy for the most part and pitches every 5 days. Consistently good but not great. Bassitt signed a 3 year deal this past free agency while being two years older than Stroman and Stroman is currently pitching the best season of his career that is also superior to anything Bassitt ever threw. We would all love to tack on just 2 additional guaranteed years to Stroman’s deal, but why would he sign that?
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Post by batman66 on Jun 16, 2023 12:20:21 GMT -5
What do you think would be a good contract for him/them ? I think you add 2 years and put a mutual option on the back end.... so for example, pick up 2024, add 25 and 26, make 27 a mutual year (with hefty buyout to entice the Cubs to keep it mutual). If the Cubs are serious about contending then I think this fits right in to that, with his age. Stroman doesn't strike me as a guy who's over powering and may get hurt, you never know, but I don't mind that 2 additional years after 2024 with a mutual 2027 if he's ok with that too. Pretty much what I was thinking .
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Post by lajoiesghost on Jun 16, 2023 12:23:05 GMT -5
If the Cubs plan to contend, they need to extend Stro. There are enough holes to fill without adding no. 1 starter to the list. This off season they need to fix the offense, not take a step backwards with the starters.
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Post by kfidd on Jun 16, 2023 12:23:24 GMT -5
Cubs FO is just keeping all options open at the moment, that is all they are doing and the correct approach. Deadline Approach: Sellers = Trade Buyers = Extend I mean I guess I can see that. The best bat target, outside of Ohtani, would probably be Matt Chapman to cover 3B. He's an FA after this season and putting up good numbers. He'll be age 31 in year 1 of a new deal though so what kind of money are the Cubs willing to give him and what will he be asking for? I like Chapman, he's got the 6th best wRC+ in MLB amongst 3B and also has the 2nd best fWAR only behind Jose Ramirez. Targeting Matt Chapman and Urias may be a good offseason start. I just think Ohtani is not an option. We’ve talked about Chapman a good bit. He’d be an upgrade, especially defensively (taking a great infield defense to… what’s better than great). But he is not the answer offensively and while the overalls look solid still he is rapidly reverting back to the hitter he was in Toronto since being traded there. April: .372/.459/.691, 22.9% K May: .202/.273/.312, 28.8% K June: .170/.245/.340, 30.8% K I think Chapman could be an interesting addition assuming they solidify a real offensive upgrade elsewhere, but at that point you are running out if positions to make that happen. He’s going to have to start turning his trajectory around though because while his overall numbers look solid they are heavily skewed by his first 105 PA.
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Post by batman66 on Jun 16, 2023 12:23:42 GMT -5
Cubs FO is just keeping all options open at the moment, that is all they are doing and the correct approach. Deadline Approach: Sellers = Trade Buyers = Extend I mean I guess I can see that. The best bat target, outside of Ohtani, would probably be Matt Chapman to cover 3B. He's an FA after this season and putting up good numbers. He'll be age 31 in year 1 of a new deal though so what kind of money are the Cubs willing to give him and what will he be asking for? I like Chapman, he's got the 6th best wRC+ in MLB amongst 3B and also has the 2nd best fWAR only behind Jose Ramirez. Targeting Matt Chapman and Urias may be a good offseason start. I just think Ohtani is not an option. Chapman is almost a no brainer for where they are and what they need and like . ( edit : didn't realize he's regressing down to what he's been the last couple seasons ) unless he picks it back up to where he was a few years ago then he's mot much better than Wisdom who I've wanted gone for a while. Solid glove who will help solidify the D at third but they'd still need to find a productive bat somewhere . I don't think Urias is gettable either. He will be asking for more years than fits the Cubs comfort zone , as will most of the good younger SP free agents so that's why I'm so into them keeping Stroman.
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Post by batman66 on Jun 16, 2023 12:30:10 GMT -5
I mean I guess I can see that. The best bat target, outside of Ohtani, would probably be Matt Chapman to cover 3B. He's an FA after this season and putting up good numbers. He'll be age 31 in year 1 of a new deal though so what kind of money are the Cubs willing to give him and what will he be asking for? I like Chapman, he's got the 6th best wRC+ in MLB amongst 3B and also has the 2nd best fWAR only behind Jose Ramirez. Targeting Matt Chapman and Urias may be a good offseason start. I just think Ohtani is not an option. We’ve talked about Chapman a good bit. He’d be an upgrade, especially defensively (taking a great infield defense to… what’s better than great). But he is not the answer offensively and while the overalls look solid still he is rapidly reverting back to the hitter he was in Toronto since being traded there. April: .372/.459/.691, 22.9% K May: .202/.273/.312, 28.8% K June: .170/.245/.340, 30.8% K I think Chapman could be an interesting addition assuming they solidify a real offensive upgrade elsewhere, but at that point you are running out if positions to make that happen. He’s going to have to start turning his trajectory around though because while his overall numbers look solid they are heavily skewed by his first 105 PA. Why the hell have I been thinking Chapman was a lefty ? I also wasn't paying attention that his numbers have been dropping after April , if he finishes the season like he has the last two, then hard pass, he's become a Wisdom clone with a better glove and not the offensive answer they need .
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Post by kfidd on Jun 16, 2023 12:32:23 GMT -5
We’ve talked about Chapman a good bit. He’d be an upgrade, especially defensively (taking a great infield defense to… what’s better than great). But he is not the answer offensively and while the overalls look solid still he is rapidly reverting back to the hitter he was in Toronto since being traded there. April: .372/.459/.691, 22.9% K May: .202/.273/.312, 28.8% K June: .170/.245/.340, 30.8% K I think Chapman could be an interesting addition assuming they solidify a real offensive upgrade elsewhere, but at that point you are running out if positions to make that happen. He’s going to have to start turning his trajectory around though because while his overall numbers look solid they are heavily skewed by his first 105 PA. Why the hell have I been thinking Chapman was a lefty ? I also wasn't paying attention that his numbers have been dropping after April , if he finishes the season like he has the last two, then hard pass, he's become a Wisdom clone with a better glove and not the offensive answer they need . Bwahaha, I thought he was a lefty as well. Maybe we were thinking of Olson?
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Post by batman66 on Jun 16, 2023 12:33:49 GMT -5
Why the hell have I been thinking Chapman was a lefty ? I also wasn't paying attention that his numbers have been dropping after April , if he finishes the season like he has the last two, then hard pass, he's become a Wisdom clone with a better glove and not the offensive answer they need . Bwahaha, I thought he was a lefty as well. Maybe we were thinking of Olson? Probably
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