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Post by batman66 on Jun 21, 2023 19:22:21 GMT -5
Somebody comments how performance from a season that ended just ~20 months ago is relevant and your response is to jump back 4+ years to 2018-2019? Why stop there though? Because it was his worst season of his career, an outlier season, and that was Wisdom's best year, in limited playing time, yeah, so fair. He's been with his new team for his 2nd season, lets focus on that and how he's playing there since he's a free agent after this year. Chapman is also 2nd in all of baseball in doubles only behind Freddie Freeman. This is stupid, I really have to debate that Chapman is a better overall player offensively than home run or nothing Wisdom (who i do not hate by the way)? <<I really have to debate that Chapman is a better overall player offensively than home run or nothing Wisdom>> No , my question was is he 15 million or more a season better because the offensive production doesn't show a huge enough gap for me to think he'd help the offense much to warrant his cost. I want to see how he finishes the year because he's been shit since April when he was terrific 15 doubles , 5 homers , 21 rbi's .384 avg .464 obp 1.152 ops Chapman in May 5 doubles 2 homers 7 rbi's .202 avg .273 obp .575 ops Chapman in June 3 doubles 2 homers 6 rbi's .183 avg .265 obp .598 ops
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Post by foolforthecity on Jun 21, 2023 19:47:30 GMT -5
I changed my vote. BRING THE MAN BACK!!!
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jun 22, 2023 13:12:53 GMT -5
Why stop there though? Because it was his worst season of his career, an outlier season, and that was Wisdom's best year, in limited playing time, yeah, so fair. He's been with his new team for his 2nd season, lets focus on that and how he's playing there since he's a free agent after this year. Chapman is also 2nd in all of baseball in doubles only behind Freddie Freeman. This is stupid, I really have to debate that Chapman is a better overall player offensively than home run or nothing Wisdom (who i do not hate by the way)? <<I really have to debate that Chapman is a better overall player offensively than home run or nothing Wisdom>> No , my question was is he 15 million or more a season better because the offensive production doesn't show a huge enough gap for me to think he'd help the offense much to warrant his cost. I want to see how he finishes the year because he's been shit since April when he was terrific 15 doubles , 5 homers , 21 rbi's .384 avg .464 obp 1.152 ops Chapman in May 5 doubles 2 homers 7 rbi's .202 avg .273 obp .575 ops Chapman in June 3 doubles 2 homers 6 rbi's .183 avg .265 obp .598 ops Well, if you're going to talk about money then you have to now talk about DEFENSE, which was part of Swanson's argument. Why are you breaking it up in to sample sizes that fit you stupid argument? Chapman 2023 - 128 wRC+ (4th in MLB amongst 3B), 2.4 fWAR (2nd in MLB amongst 3B behind Ramirez 2.6) Wisdom 2023 - 102 wRC+ (16th in MLB amongst 3B), 0.4 fWAR (26th in MLB amongst 3B) What the hell are we talking about here? What guys did on a Sunday at 1pm, vs a lefty, on a cloudy day, when the wind was blowing out at least 10 MPH? His numbers in 2023 are exactly in line with 2018 and 2019 when he was 7th and 6th in MVP voting those seasons and also leads the MLB in doubles now.
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Post by batman66 on Jun 22, 2023 13:46:49 GMT -5
<<I really have to debate that Chapman is a better overall player offensively than home run or nothing Wisdom>> No , my question was is he 15 million or more a season better because the offensive production doesn't show a huge enough gap for me to think he'd help the offense much to warrant his cost. I want to see how he finishes the year because he's been shit since April when he was terrific 15 doubles , 5 homers , 21 rbi's .384 avg .464 obp 1.152 ops Chapman in May 5 doubles 2 homers 7 rbi's .202 avg .273 obp .575 ops Chapman in June 3 doubles 2 homers 6 rbi's .183 avg .265 obp .598 ops Well, if you're going to talk about money then you have to now talk about DEFENSE, which was part of Swanson's argument. Why are you breaking it up in to sample sizes that fit you stupid argument? Chapman 2023 - 128 wRC+ (4th in MLB amongst 3B), 2.4 fWAR (2nd in MLB amongst 3B behind Ramirez 2.6) Wisdom 2023 - 102 wRC+ (16th in MLB amongst 3B), 0.4 fWAR (26th in MLB amongst 3B) What the hell are we talking about here? What guys did on a Sunday at 1pm, vs a lefty, on a cloudy day, when the wind was blowing out at least 10 MPH? His numbers in 2023 are exactly in line with 2018 and 2019 when he was 7th and 6th in MVP voting those seasons and also leads the MLB in doubles now.
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Post by thisbuds4u on Jun 22, 2023 13:51:15 GMT -5
If the Cubs do trade Stroman or let him walk as a free agent, why waste money on signing Chapman?
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Post by batman66 on Jun 22, 2023 14:00:57 GMT -5
<<I really have to debate that Chapman is a better overall player offensively than home run or nothing Wisdom>> No , my question was is he 15 million or more a season better because the offensive production doesn't show a huge enough gap for me to think he'd help the offense much to warrant his cost. I want to see how he finishes the year because he's been shit since April when he was terrific 15 doubles , 5 homers , 21 rbi's .384 avg .464 obp 1.152 ops Chapman in May 5 doubles 2 homers 7 rbi's .202 avg .273 obp .575 ops Chapman in June 3 doubles 2 homers 6 rbi's .183 avg .265 obp .598 ops Well, if you're going to talk about money then you have to now talk about DEFENSE, which was part of Swanson's argument. Why are you breaking it up in to sample sizes that fit you stupid argument? Chapman 2023 - 128 wRC+ (4th in MLB amongst 3B), 2.4 fWAR (2nd in MLB amongst 3B behind Ramirez 2.6) Wisdom 2023 - 102 wRC+ (16th in MLB amongst 3B), 0.4 fWAR (26th in MLB amongst 3B) What the hell are we talking about here? What guys did on a Sunday at 1pm, vs a lefty, on a cloudy day, when the wind was blowing out at least 10 MPH? His numbers in 2023 are exactly in line with 2018 and 2019 when he was 7th and 6th in MVP voting those seasons and also leads the MLB in doubles now. Why because I said the two previous seasons he turned into a Wisdom clone with the bat . So why the hell would I use 2023 ? When somebody makes a statement about the previous two seasons it's pretty much common fucking sense to use , guess what , the previous two seasons . So why the hell would I use 2023 or seasons prior to 2021 ? But since you brought up 2023 his numbers are horrible since April , his numbers don't look bad in total but that is heavily based off a tremendous April , it's NOT about sample sizes, it's about him coming back down to earth after killing it in April and where he's trending to , that's why I said i want to see how the year plays out because he showed signs of the MVP caliber guy in April , since then he's been shit. April 15 doubles 5 homers 21 rbi's .384 avg .465 obp .687 slg 1.152 ops May 6 doubles 2 homers 7 rbi's .202 avg .272 obp .312 slg .585 ops June 4 doubles 3 homers 7 rbi's .206 abg .292 obp .413 slg .704 ops
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jun 23, 2023 9:11:24 GMT -5
Just stop already batman, geezus.
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Post by batman66 on Jun 23, 2023 12:18:55 GMT -5
Just stop already batman, geezus. I proved my point. You apparently had not been looking at how bad Chapman has been since April. Thats why I've been saying it depends on what Chapman they would be getting , The 2018-2019 early 2023 version , great all around player who'd bolster the line up and tighten up the D. Would love to have that guy at any cost. The 2021-22 , and May , June of 2023 version , pretty much just a defensive upgrade. Not sure if he's worth the cost difference from the current options they already have. He's gotta show me he's more of the older version than the current one to be worth the contract you think he's going to get.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jun 23, 2023 13:10:13 GMT -5
Would you take this player? June: .159/.325/.286/.611 Sometimes I wonder if you just stick to your guns regardless if you have no idea what you are talking about.
You're literally cherry picking this one to death. Good luck with Patrick Wisdom as your starting 3B for the next 5-6 years.... no wonder the Cubs are losing 90-ish games a year LOL
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Post by batman66 on Jun 23, 2023 13:27:01 GMT -5
Would you take this player? June: .159/.325/.286/.611 Sometimes I wonder if you just stick to your guns regardless if you have no idea what you are talking about. You're literally cherry picking this one to death. Good luck with Patrick Wisdom as your starting 3B for the next 5-6 years.... no wonder the Cubs are losing 90-ish games a year LOL Are you fucking kidding right now ? How is using the last two seasons which the ENTIRE comment was about and using the last two months , his most recent performances cherry picking ? You are the one picking damn cherries here. It's not about a months sample , it's about the guy sucked ass as a hitter the previous two seasons and he had ONE , that's ONE good month in April .. So lets evaluate , is the last 2 full seasons plus the last 2 months cherry picking , or is a looking at a tremendous month which warped his over all numbers cherry picking? And I don't like Wisdom at all, if you actually read through comments and not flip out after a couple words you'd realize I don't like him and I wanted him gone even before this season.
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Post by batman66 on Jun 23, 2023 13:35:51 GMT -5
Would you take this player? June: .159/.325/.286/.611 Sometimes I wonder if you just stick to your guns regardless if you have no idea what you are talking about. You're literally cherry picking this one to death. Good luck with Patrick Wisdom as your starting 3B for the next 5-6 years.... no wonder the Cubs are losing 90-ish games a year LOL So you're convinced Chapman currently is the player he was in 2018-19 ? Her sure looked like it in April , but the last two months he's looked like the last two years. Sorry man , I hope he is , but unless he turns it back around his 2023 he is going to end up looking more like his last two seasons the way it's been trending the last two months. He had one great month , if he puts up another similar one or two then his numbers will be more like the old Chapman , which is what I'm hoping for. I'm not sure why you don't seem worried at all over his last couple months on top of his last two seasons being shit with the bat .
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Post by kfidd on Jun 23, 2023 13:41:30 GMT -5
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Post by batman66 on Jun 23, 2023 13:54:07 GMT -5
Rickets made comments about it yeterday which did not damper any hope , he seemed to put it all on Jed. “He’s been a big part of our clubhouse. He’s a good guy to have on this team. Everybody enjoys having him around. What we do with his contract is something that Jed will work out with Marcus and his team at some point.” “I’m really excited that he wants to stay,” Ricketts said. “I mean, that’s a question that can be resolved between him and Jed. I know that he’s a very talented player, a big part of this team and I hope it all ends up in the right place.”
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Post by batman66 on Jul 2, 2023 10:43:09 GMT -5
Nothing really new but the media is trying to say that he won't be extended.
But if you read the story coming from Rosenthal it says he won't be extended BEFORE the deadline , not that he won't be extended at some point.
The reasoning is because they don't know if they are going to buy or sell at this deadline as of now.
My problem is , even if you sell which means you're punting 2023 , why would it matter to wait to extend him , if they are interested in extending him and want him as part of the future ?
You would be doing it for 2024 and beyond , you NEED a guy like him and if they don't extend him them he needs to be replaced and not many pitchers out there are better right now and you already know he can have success in Wrigley.
And I don't want to hear the , well they can trade him , and then sign him back in free agency . Yes it happens , but it's rare so I don't have any confidence they could pull that type of scenario off. If they can , great , but I doubt it happens.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2023 12:32:46 GMT -5
Nothing really new but the media is trying to say that he won't be extended. But if you read the story coming from Rosenthal it says he won't be extended BEFORE the deadline , not that he won't be extended at some point. The reasoning is because they don't know if they are going to buy or sell at this deadline as of now. My problem is , even if you sell which means you're punting 2023 , why would it matter to wait to extend him , if they are interested in extending him and want him as part of the future ? You would be doing it for 2024 and beyond , you NEED a guy like him and if they don't extend him them he needs to be replaced and not many pitchers out there are better right now and you already know he can have success in Wrigley. And I don't want to hear the , well they can trade him , and then sign him back in free agency . Yes it happens , but it's rare so I don't have any confidence they could pull that type of scenario off. If they can , great , but I doubt it happens. I said the other day in the TDL thread that Jed really needs to decide on what direction to take. I'll be blunt and say he can't keep halfassing every season like he has been, maybe we'll compete or maybe we'll rebuild. Choose an F'ing lane Jed & stick with it. Have the stone to tell Ricketts to open up the wallet but only with a well thought out plan. #rantover
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Post by Cubtastic on Jul 2, 2023 12:52:06 GMT -5
Nothing really new but the media is trying to say that he won't be extended. But if you read the story coming from Rosenthal it says he won't be extended BEFORE the deadline , not that he won't be extended at some point. The reasoning is because they don't know if they are going to buy or sell at this deadline as of now. My problem is , even if you sell which means you're punting 2023 , why would it matter to wait to extend him , if they are interested in extending him and want him as part of the future ? You would be doing it for 2024 and beyond , you NEED a guy like him and if they don't extend him them he needs to be replaced and not many pitchers out there are better right now and you already know he can have success in Wrigley. And I don't want to hear the , well they can trade him , and then sign him back in free agency . Yes it happens , but it's rare so I don't have any confidence they could pull that type of scenario off. If they can , great , but I doubt it happens. I said the other day in the TDL thread that Jed really needs to decide on what direction to take. I'll be blunt and say he can't keep halfassing every season like he has been, maybe we'll compete or maybe we'll rebuild. Choose an F'ing lane Jed & stick with it. Have the stone to tell Ricketts to open up the wallet but only with a well thought out plan. #rantover Agreed, they spent a lot of money but did not really get any better, need to rebuild or get players who are impactful
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Post by batman66 on Jul 2, 2023 16:04:38 GMT -5
Nothing really new but the media is trying to say that he won't be extended. But if you read the story coming from Rosenthal it says he won't be extended BEFORE the deadline , not that he won't be extended at some point. The reasoning is because they don't know if they are going to buy or sell at this deadline as of now. My problem is , even if you sell which means you're punting 2023 , why would it matter to wait to extend him , if they are interested in extending him and want him as part of the future ? You would be doing it for 2024 and beyond , you NEED a guy like him and if they don't extend him them he needs to be replaced and not many pitchers out there are better right now and you already know he can have success in Wrigley. And I don't want to hear the , well they can trade him , and then sign him back in free agency . Yes it happens , but it's rare so I don't have any confidence they could pull that type of scenario off. If they can , great , but I doubt it happens. I said the other day in the TDL thread that Jed really needs to decide on what direction to take. I'll be blunt and say he can't keep halfassing every season like he has been, maybe we'll compete or maybe we'll rebuild. Choose an F'ing lane Jed & stick with it. Have the stone to tell Ricketts to open up the wallet but only with a well thought out plan. #rantover [b The previous seasons I understand the waiting up until the deadline to pick a lane before selling. But going into those seasons they had to be in the mindframe that they would more than likely be selling. This season was the transition year when they were supposed to take strides to contend with 2024 really still the more realistic year it would happen and the need to flip to stock the farm is no longer priority. So why the hell would you not want to get a deal done with Stroman because having him wrapped up is going to make putting together the 2024 roster a lot less work. Unless they really do think they have a legit chance to sign Ohtani, not keeping Stroman makes no sense to me.
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Post by kfidd on Jul 2, 2023 16:35:58 GMT -5
I don’t know why we’d expect the Cubs to have picked a lane already. It’s only July 2nd, the division is terrible, but the Cubs are also often terrible. One trade has happened from a seller and the second it happened everyone asked, “why so early?” Considering the circumstances it’s too early to know whether the Cubs should be buyers or sellers. Their Jekyll and Hyde act has kept them close enough to entertain buying but also far enough to feel a major lack of confidence in this team’s ability to compete.
With that in mind I don’t think it’s any surprise the Cubs haven’t committed one way or the other to Stroman yet. He’s by far their biggest MLB trade chip at the moment, and until we know which lane they choose keeping that option open seems like a sound plan to me. If they trade him there are three aces available in free agency that are all younger than Stroman (Ohtani, Urias, and Nola) and could be viewed as better buys. To sweeten the pot, that means we also got a trade return for Stroman to consider. And we have no idea what that could possibly bring at this juncture.
I think people are too antsy on Stroman and an extension. It’s all based on the belief that at his age (almost 33 next opening day) he’d accept a shorter length higher AAV contract to stay a Cub. But the only great recent examples we have of that are Scherzer and Verlander, two more dominant and older pitchers than Stroman in this scenario. The Cubs have plenty of time to offer Stroman an extension, the window of opportunity has not passed.
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Post by batman66 on Jul 3, 2023 19:11:32 GMT -5
I don’t know why we’d expect the Cubs to have picked a lane already. It’s only July 2nd, the division is terrible, but the Cubs are also often terrible. One trade has happened from a seller and the second it happened everyone asked, “why so early?” Considering the circumstances it’s too early to know whether the Cubs should be buyers or sellers. Their Jekyll and Hyde act has kept them close enough to entertain buying but also far enough to feel a major lack of confidence in this team’s ability to compete. With that in mind I don’t think it’s any surprise the Cubs haven’t committed one way or the other to Stroman yet. He’s by far their biggest MLB trade chip at the moment, and until we know which lane they choose keeping that option open seems like a sound plan to me. If they trade him there are three aces available in free agency that are all younger than Stroman (Ohtani, Urias, and Nola) and could be viewed as better buys. To sweeten the pot, that means we also got a trade return for Stroman to consider. And we have no idea what that could possibly bring at this juncture. I think people are too antsy on Stroman and an extension. It’s all based on the belief that at his age (almost 33 next opening day) he’d accept a shorter length higher AAV contract to stay a Cub. But the only great recent examples we have of that are Scherzer and Verlander, two more dominant and older pitchers than Stroman in this scenario. The Cubs have plenty of time to offer Stroman an extension, the window of opportunity has not passed. I did not expect them to pick a lane by now . But keeping Stroman should be the choice no matter what lane they are picking . If they decide to sell then they give up on 2023 which is fine, but then they are foccusing on 2024 and beyond and the 2024 should be the bigger focus at this point then the4 beyond , so does what you get for Stroman help you more in 2024 , doubtful they can get something of value major league ready. The farm is in good enough shape that it should not be about flipping guys for future pieces other than guys you really don't expect to be here long who you won't get much for anyway like the Mancini types . And forget about Ohtani , Urias, those are dreams that won't happen . I give the Cubs zero chance to sign either. I could see maybe Nola as a guy in their range , but he's only 2 years younger and I don't think he's better.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 5, 2023 14:07:31 GMT -5
Stroman not helping his cause the last 2 outing. He needs a good outing his next start.
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