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Post by woodysfilthy on Jun 14, 2021 8:41:28 GMT -5
Things are starting to get interesting. We're playing good. We figured to be sellers at this point but maybe we could be buyers. Theres an article out there suggesting we obtain Sherzer. I really doubt we give up our top prospects for him when we're about to lose a bunch of our main players and need those prospects soon. It may have been better to be 5 games back at this point so we could sell high and prepare for the future, but atleast we'll all have an exciting season to watch and postseason games sound pretty damn great right about now. I predict that we do not trade/buy any player of value for the run. I could see us still trading a key player for the right return while continuing to be competitive and get a playoff spot. So my probably bad guess is that we sell KB and keep the rest of who we have for the stretch. We earn a wild card spot, make it as far as the NLCS, where the Dodgers beat us 4 games to 2. No way they deal they're best hitter in the middle of a pennant race. They're either buyers period or they stand pat which would be disappointing. This team isn't falling out of contention and can do some serious damage in the post season.
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Post by rvn11 on Jun 14, 2021 9:34:31 GMT -5
I'd love to get a power arm type of guy, but the asking price is rumored to be extremely high right now. I expect the Cubs to do what they did from 2018 on, and that's just wait in the weeds and see what veteran on an expiring contract they can pry away from a team that doesn't want to pay the rest of their salary, just like Daniel Murphy, Castellanos and Cole Hamels. If they can get a strong arm otherwise I'm all for it, I just don't want to start dealing away prospects again.
Kudos to the OP for starting this when they did, a lot has changed since then...
I feel the same way. I would not deal anybody they feel WILL , not can be part of the teams future. They are in a position to set themselves up for another nice run of "sustained success" because there is a shit load of money coming off the books and although there is not tons of high end talent in the minors there is a lot of solid talents and all prospects don't need to turn into super stars. We are seeing how valuable players like Duffy, Marisnick, Wisdon, Alcantara etc can be to a roster , so developing role players shoulf not be looked at as a failure if they don't all become all stars. Snag a veteran or two on a salary dump type deal. Hell even Nick the Stick might be able to be pried away from the Reds if they stumble a little , they know he's probably going to opt out anyway this winter. Lots of talk from Sox fans that Nick's the guy for them to get, I hope that doesn't happen. I'd love to see him back in Wrigley but I doubt the Reds make that move.
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Post by fine09 on Jun 14, 2021 10:01:12 GMT -5
I feel the same way. I would not deal anybody they feel WILL , not can be part of the teams future. They are in a position to set themselves up for another nice run of "sustained success" because there is a shit load of money coming off the books and although there is not tons of high end talent in the minors there is a lot of solid talents and all prospects don't need to turn into super stars. We are seeing how valuable players like Duffy, Marisnick, Wisdon, Alcantara etc can be to a roster , so developing role players shoulf not be looked at as a failure if they don't all become all stars. Snag a veteran or two on a salary dump type deal. Hell even Nick the Stick might be able to be pried away from the Reds if they stumble a little , they know he's probably going to opt out anyway this winter. Lots of talk from Sox fans that Nick's the guy for them to get, I hope that doesn't happen. I'd love to see him back in Wrigley but I doubt the Reds make that move. With Nick's opt out being an almost certainty the Reds won't get the kind of return for a multi year of control situation but they will still get paid, probably quite a bit less than what we would get for KB but he should bring back great value. Now the issue is that the Reds are very close to being contenders if the Brewers or the Cubs fall off so they could also be buyers - but I seriously doubt it.
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Post by tedw on Jun 14, 2021 10:33:48 GMT -5
Lots of talk from Sox fans that Nick's the guy for them to get, I hope that doesn't happen. I'd love to see him back in Wrigley but I doubt the Reds make that move. With Nick's opt out being an almost certainty the Reds won't get the kind of return for a multi year of control situation but they will still get paid, probably quite a bit less than what we would get for KB but he should bring back great value. Now the issue is that the Reds are very close to being contenders if the Brewers or the Cubs fall off so they could also be buyers - but I seriously doubt it. So just curious, but why do you think Nick's opt out at the end of the year would be almost a certainty? To get more money? Would love to see the Cubs pick him up again if he does opt out.
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Post by bryzzobrist on Jun 14, 2021 14:19:45 GMT -5
Things are starting to get interesting. We're playing good. We figured to be sellers at this point but maybe we could be buyers. Theres an article out there suggesting we obtain Sherzer. I really doubt we give up our top prospects for him when we're about to lose a bunch of our main players and need those prospects soon. It may have been better to be 5 games back at this point so we could sell high and prepare for the future, but atleast we'll all have an exciting season to watch and postseason games sound pretty damn great right about now. I predict that we do not trade/buy any player of value for the run. I could see us still trading a key player for the right return while continuing to be competitive and get a playoff spot. So my probably bad guess is that we sell KB and keep the rest of who we have for the stretch. We earn a wild card spot, make it as far as the NLCS, where the Dodgers beat us 4 games to 2. No way they deal they're best hitter in the middle of a pennant race. They're either buyers period or they stand pat which would be disappointing. This team isn't falling out of contention and can do some serious damage in the post season. Is this team good enough to buy and sacrifice the teams future (to some degree) beyond this season? I feel like we MIGHT be more lucky than good, with our overperforming backup players and relievers. Wouldn't want the team to give up the few promising prospects we have this year and then spend a lot of money in future seasons just to be mediocre and missing the key pieces we could've picked up. Either way, glad to be winning!
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Post by batman66 on Jun 14, 2021 14:49:24 GMT -5
With Nick's opt out being an almost certainty the Reds won't get the kind of return for a multi year of control situation but they will still get paid, probably quite a bit less than what we would get for KB but he should bring back great value. Now the issue is that the Reds are very close to being contenders if the Brewers or the Cubs fall off so they could also be buyers - but I seriously doubt it. So just curious, but why do you think Nick's opt out at the end of the year would be almost a certainty? To get more money? Would love to see the Cubs pick him up again if he does opt out. Well I think Nick wants to win and loves the atmosphere he played in with the Cubs , so if Cinci is scaling back once again and not going for it, he's gone. He's having a HUGE year and showing his late season 2019 was not a fluke, but more of what he's capable of. I think he knows now is the time to get a bigger deal than two years down the road. He's is 29 and has 2 more years 32 million left on his deal if he stays with a 20 million mutual option for 2024. If the Cubs weren't in a numbers crunch when he was here he would have no doubt probably taken less to be here. From things we heard, don't know how true, he was giving them time to try to figure something out so they could be able to keep him. Now with a shitload of money potentially off the books, they could easily afford him. I'm not saying he'd opt out because of the Cubs, but rather it's the right time to for him age wise to cash in on a great year.
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Post by batman66 on Jun 14, 2021 14:58:47 GMT -5
No way they deal they're best hitter in the middle of a pennant race. They're either buyers period or they stand pat which would be disappointing. This team isn't falling out of contention and can do some serious damage in the post season. Is this team good enough to buy and sacrifice the teams future (to some degree) beyond this season? I feel like we MIGHT be more lucky than good, with our overperforming backup players and relievers. Wouldn't want the team to give up the few promising prospects we have this year and then spend a lot of money in future seasons just to be mediocre and missing the key pieces we could've picked up. Either way, glad to be winning! There is some luck in what's happening , no doubt. But some teams just get the right blend of players and I've been saying it for a while, the team chemistry they have seems better than it's been in a while and I have a different feeling about this team they are having fun again. Reminds me of some of Theo and Jed's RedSox teams . Unexpected role players from the little name signings or small trades playing big parts in the team being what it is. There is just a different feel to the team. Maybe it's because the pressure was finally off thier back a little , this year after dealing Darvish nobody really expected them to be a contender and Ross just has them in a great place right now mentally. They asked DeRosa today on MLB Central if he thought they were good enough to win it all , and he said he has to be honest , no , the starting pitching isn't quite enough. They asked him if they are good enough to win the division and he said yes, the mentioned the great team chemistry they have.
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Post by fine09 on Jun 15, 2021 5:59:23 GMT -5
With Nick's opt out being an almost certainty the Reds won't get the kind of return for a multi year of control situation but they will still get paid, probably quite a bit less than what we would get for KB but he should bring back great value. Now the issue is that the Reds are very close to being contenders if the Brewers or the Cubs fall off so they could also be buyers - but I seriously doubt it. So just curious, but why do you think Nick's opt out at the end of the year would be almost a certainty? To get more money? Would love to see the Cubs pick him up again if he does opt out. After this year he has 2 years at 16 mil per on his deal so I believe with him being a top 5 hitter (at a minimum) & his age he could easily see a 4 or 5 year deal at 16 to 22 mil per year without the deferrals he has with Cincy right now.
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Post by batman66 on Jun 15, 2021 7:31:22 GMT -5
Two potential starting pitching targets go down with injury yesterday. Matthew Boyd, "left arm discomfort" he felt something odd in his triceps and Michael Pineda right elbow inflammation.
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Post by rvn11 on Jun 15, 2021 11:33:55 GMT -5
Two potential starting pitching targets go down with injury yesterday. Matthew Boyd, "left arm discomfort" he felt something odd in his triceps and Michael Pineda right elbow inflammation. Glasnow also left with forearm tightness last night, which depending on the severity could bring the Rays into the market for starting pitching. It's not going to be easy nor cheap IMO.
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Post by TheChico on Jun 15, 2021 12:14:25 GMT -5
Two potential starting pitching targets go down with injury yesterday. Matthew Boyd, "left arm discomfort" he felt something odd in his triceps and Michael Pineda right elbow inflammation. Big pass on both of those guys even if healthy, I am not really a fan of both. To me if available, German Marquez would be my guy but he would cost a ton, but you also have a proven long term rotation piece until 2024 that still has untapped upside. You would have to move a Braylin Marquez to get the Rockies to even pick up the phone would be the issue and nobody really knows Hoyer plan beyond this season. Anyhow, finding a starter is going to tough and I don't want Hoyer job right now, he is really is a very tough spot not only this year but long term.
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Post by fine09 on Jun 15, 2021 13:53:30 GMT -5
Two potential starting pitching targets go down with injury yesterday. Matthew Boyd, "left arm discomfort" he felt something odd in his triceps and Michael Pineda right elbow inflammation. Big pass on both of those guys even if healthy, I am not really a fan of both. To me if available, German Marquez would be my guy but he would cost a ton, but you also have a proven long term rotation piece until 2024 that still has untapped upside. You would have to move a Braylin Marquez to get the Rockies to even pick up the phone would be the issue and nobody really knows Hoyer plan beyond this season. Anyhow, finding a starter is going to tough and I don't want Hoyer job right now, he is really is a very tough spot not only this year but long term. I can't see Jed making a move that costs us any top 10 prospect of ours because he has to know that the odds of us doing anything in the post season are not very good at all. Then again on the flip side, even though we Cub fans of late aren't satisfied with just a division title any longer, 80% of the other teams out there might be & honestly it is nothing to take lightly. Then again, if we did deal some of our "Free agents to be & Kimbrel" we could end up with 3 or 4 more damn near MLB ready guys in the top 100 list with 1 maybe in the top 10 to 20. That along with a couple nice free agent signings could set us up for the future for years to come where we don't have to have this conversation..
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Post by bryzzobrist on Jun 15, 2021 14:05:38 GMT -5
Is this team good enough to buy and sacrifice the teams future (to some degree) beyond this season? I feel like we MIGHT be more lucky than good, with our overperforming backup players and relievers. Wouldn't want the team to give up the few promising prospects we have this year and then spend a lot of money in future seasons just to be mediocre and missing the key pieces we could've picked up. Either way, glad to be winning! There is some luck in what's happening , no doubt. But some teams just get the right blend of players and I've been saying it for a while, the team chemistry they have seems better than it's been in a while and I have a different feeling about this team they are having fun again. Reminds me of some of Theo and Jed's RedSox teams . Unexpected role players from the little name signings or small trades playing big parts in the team being what it is. There is just a different feel to the team. Maybe it's because the pressure was finally off thier back a little , this year after dealing Darvish nobody really expected them to be a contender and Ross just has them in a great place right now mentally. They asked DeRosa today on MLB Central if he thought they were good enough to win it all , and he said he has to be honest , no , the starting pitching isn't quite enough. They asked him if they are good enough to win the division and he said yes, the mentioned the great team chemistry they have. Would SUCK if we go out and buy and then still don't win the division - it's very possible. We're not alone in first, and we're still dealing with injuries in an already lacking rotation. I dunno. It's hard to envision us going all-in and it working out. Glad it's not my decision to make.
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Post by cubbies85 on Jun 15, 2021 14:26:23 GMT -5
The Cubs surprise year is making the Darvish trade look worse and worse. Cubs definitely need a reliable TOR if they want to make any actual noise in the POs if they shall make it.
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Post by TheChico on Jun 15, 2021 14:28:05 GMT -5
There is some luck in what's happening , no doubt. But some teams just get the right blend of players and I've been saying it for a while, the team chemistry they have seems better than it's been in a while and I have a different feeling about this team they are having fun again. Reminds me of some of Theo and Jed's RedSox teams . Unexpected role players from the little name signings or small trades playing big parts in the team being what it is. There is just a different feel to the team. Maybe it's because the pressure was finally off thier back a little , this year after dealing Darvish nobody really expected them to be a contender and Ross just has them in a great place right now mentally. They asked DeRosa today on MLB Central if he thought they were good enough to win it all , and he said he has to be honest , no , the starting pitching isn't quite enough. They asked him if they are good enough to win the division and he said yes, the mentioned the great team chemistry they have. Would SUCK if we go out and buy and then still don't win the division - it's very possible. We're not alone in first, and we're still dealing with injuries in an already lacking rotation. I dunno. It's hard to envision us going all-in and it working out. Glad it's not my decision to make. At the same time you cannot sell in this position and cannot stand pat either, so Hoyer has to do something. Just read that Cole Hamels still wants to pitch this year and could showcase for teams soon, he could be an option for the Cubs for the stretch run.
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Post by thisbuds4u on Jun 15, 2021 14:46:42 GMT -5
The Cubs surprise year is making the Darvish trade look worse and worse. Cubs definitely need a reliable TOR if they want to make any actual noise in the POs if they shall make it. The Cubs would still be looking for starting pitching. If the Cubs had Darvish, they wouldn't have Davies, who has been solid after April.
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Post by irishcubfan on Jun 15, 2021 15:00:19 GMT -5
The Cubs would still be looking for starting pitching. If the Cubs had Darvish, they wouldn't have Davies, who has been solid after April. He has been solid however has been handled with kid gloves, rarely allowed to go deep into games. The Darvish trade also has affected or will affect the pen as he was the one guy (with exception of Hendricks) who would be trusted 3x or more through an order.
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Post by irishcubfan on Jun 15, 2021 15:01:45 GMT -5
The Cubs surprise year is making the Darvish trade look worse and worse. Cubs definitely need a reliable TOR if they want to make any actual noise in the POs if they shall make it. The Cubs would still be looking for starting pitching. If the Cubs had Darvish, they wouldn't have Davies, who has been solid after April. The Cubs need at least two starting pitchers.
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Post by ddevonb on Jun 15, 2021 15:07:59 GMT -5
Two potential starting pitching targets go down with injury yesterday. Matthew Boyd, "left arm discomfort" he felt something odd in his triceps and Michael Pineda right elbow inflammation. Big pass on both of those guys even if healthy, I am not really a fan of both. To me if available, German Marquez would be my guy but he would cost a ton, but you also have a proven long term rotation piece until 2024 that still has untapped upside. You would have to move a Braylin Marquez to get the Rockies to even pick up the phone would be the issue and nobody really knows Hoyer plan beyond this season. Anyhow, finding a starter is going to tough and I don't want Hoyer job right now, he is really is a very tough spot not only this year but long term. Finding a starter is easy. Both Steele and Thompson are starters and will be in the rotation next year. When the bullpen is healthy, Brad Weick, Rowan Wick and Ken Ryan can take their places in the bullpen and one or both could move to the rotation in the second half. Trading good talent for a starter when they have young starters ready to go makes no sense.
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Post by batman66 on Jun 15, 2021 15:13:54 GMT -5
The Cubs surprise year is making the Darvish trade look worse and worse. Cubs definitely need a reliable TOR if they want to make any actual noise in the POs if they shall make it. Depends on how you look at it. If they don't subtract his salary there is no Davies and probably no Pederson signing and and Arrieta (although that might not be a bad thing) and who knows about the other smaller signings money was spread around in like Marisnick, Trevor Williams, Tepera etc. Davies has been VERY good since May , his ERA in April 5 starts 9.47 May 6 starts 1.72 June 3 starts 2.12
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