Cardinals draft history last 10 years

[batman66]

We had a good conversation that came up in the Clayton Richard thread that some how turned into a discussion about developing players.
It was said that 1st rounders don't count as players that are "developed" While I respect that opinion because there can be guys that need little polishing, I don't agree with it as a whole.
And it was brought up how well STL develops players.
So with that in mind, 1st rounders not counting, and using STL as an example of a team who develops well, and they do with lower selections . I decided to look up their 1st round draft history the last 10 years and included the compensation picks they'd get and competetive balance picks, so anything taken before round 2 was included. 

2005

Tyler Greene
 .....maxed out as a utility guy
Mark McCormick
 ...never made the majors , out of baseball
Tyler Herron
..... still kicking around the minors , currently in AA
2006

Adam Ottavino
...currently with Rockies and rehabbing from TJ , 3.88 career ERA  as a reliever
Chris Perez
....out of baseball because smoking weed is his priority
2007

Pete Kozma
....... another utility infielder
Clay Mortensen
 4.68 major league ERA , currently pitching for Royals AAA team
2008

Brett Wallace
 ...was supposed to be the next franchise player for STL , fringe starter for the Ppadres
Lance Lynn
 ......currently reahbbing from TJ , Very solid starter when healthy
2009

Shelby Miller
 .....great promise, having a bad year after the DBacks emptied their farm for him
2010

Zach Cox
...... in the Marlins organization hitting .244 in AA after a demotion from 4 seasons of AAA
Seth Blair
 ........  5.34 minor league ERA , OUT OF BASEBALL
Tyrell Jenkins
 .......in Braves organization pitching in AAA and showing some promise
2011

Kolten Wong
.........recently demoted to AAA
2012

Micheal Wacha
.......  Was very good, but struggling, still possible bright future
James Ramsey
 ......In the Indians organization hitting .224 in AAA
Stephen Piscotty
.........great promise, very good young player
Patrick Wisdom
........hitting a career .238 in his 5th minor league season
Steve Bean
.........hitting a career .218 in his 5th minor league season
2013

Marco Gonzales
.......... has pitched 11 games in majors 4.82 ERA
Rob Kaminsky
.............. In Indians organization career 2.48 ERA  showing promise as a starter
2014

Luke Weaver
............ showing great promise career 1.99 ERA , now in AA
2015

Nick Plummer
 ....hitting .228 in rookie league ball
Jake Woodford .......... has only pitched in 8 games so far in rookie leagues 2.38 ERA

[batman66]

I forgot Colby Rasmus in 2005

[tehmpus]

Great post and great info. Thanks.

[batman66]

Jun 8, 2016 9:11:54 GMT -5 tehmpus said:

Great post and great info. Thanks.

Thanks, I wasn't calling you out at all so I'm glad you didn't take it that way . I was kind of afraid you would but thats the difference on this board.

They do develop players well, but they seem to have better luck with later round picks than they do 1st rounders.
With them having so many picks because of comp picks , it's not a very impressive list.
I realize they usually drat low in the round so they don't have a shot at a sure thing like Bryant etc, but when they get 2-3-4 picks some years before round 2 you'd think there wouldn't be so many busts taken that high.

[tehmpus]

No problem. As I've said before many times, I don't mind disagreements, and can handle most conflicts without problem. Drafting is definitely hard to do. I can't tell you how many failed 1st round draft picks the Cubs have had over my lifetime. It's only recently that we've been lucky to have good drafting. After a draft, I think you are lucky to have more then a few players with the talent to make it to the major leagues. At that point, your minor league system kicks in and they have to be developed the rest of the way. Obviously even 1st rounders are no guarantee to make it.

[icewatkins]

What's most alarming to me is the fact that they've had 24 1st round picks in the last 10 years. Have the Cubs had close to that many or is that because of the Cardinals "competitive balance" BS?

[batman66]

Jun 8, 2016 9:34:29 GMT -5 icewatkins said:

What's most alarming to me is the fact that they've had 24 1st round picks in the last 10 years. Have the Cubs had close to that many or is that because of the Cardinals "competitive balance" BS?

The Cubs have had a total of 15 .
But I think I may have made a mistake, what I listed does not even include the competitive balance picks.

It's just their regular 1st rounders and free agent comp picks.
They got
2 picks for losing Renteria , the other teams slot, plus a sandwich pick
2 picks for losing Pujols, the other teams slot plus a sandwich pick
a pick each for losing  9 other free agents 

[tehmpus]

Those competitive balance picks should NOT go to St. Louis. Teams like the Twins should get those, not a popular team like St. Louis that makes a bunch of cash.

[batman66]

Jun 8, 2016 11:15:36 GMT -5 tehmpus said:

Those competitive balance picks should NOT go to St. Louis. Teams like the Twins should get those, not a popular team like St. Louis that makes a bunch of cash.

Yeah, them getting a pick has been a joke. The go by market size, but don't consider what their market really is. STL other than the Cubs and Royals has no team close to them to compete with. They have tons of fans from states that surround Missouri so their market reaches wide.
According to Forbes, last season the STL revenue was 300 million 8th in baseball , the Cubs 340 was 5th , the majority of the teams were in the 200-240 range.

[tehmpus]

Exactly, it's not fair. I think the St. Louis owner has a special agreement with the commish. That's the only thing that really makes sense.

[batman66]

Jun 8, 2016 11:54:35 GMT -5 tehmpus said:

Exactly, it's not fair. I think the St. Louis owner has a special agreement with the commish. That's the only thing that really makes sense.

Well they didn't get one this season , lost out in the lottery to get one .
But they are getting comp picks from Heyward and Lackey leaving.
It will also be interesting to see what fine MLB is going to lay down on them for the hacking scandal, if they take away picks or not in the future.

[mel10]

Jun 8, 2016 12:04:58 GMT -5 batman66 said:

Jun 8, 2016 11:54:35 GMT -5 tehmpus said:

Exactly, it's not fair. I think the St. Louis owner has a special agreement with the commish. That's the only thing that really makes sense.

Well they didn't get one this season , lost out in the lottery to get one .
But they are getting comp picks from Heyward and Lackey leaving.
It will also be interesting to see what fine MLB is going to lay down on them for the hacking scandal, if they take away picks or not in the future.

They should. They cheated.

[ecky23]

Jun 8, 2016 12:04:58 GMT -5 batman66 said:

Jun 8, 2016 11:54:35 GMT -5 tehmpus said:

Exactly, it's not fair. I think the St. Louis owner has a special agreement with the commish. That's the only thing that really makes sense.

Well they didn't get one this season , lost out in the lottery to get one .
But they are getting comp picks from Heyward and Lackey leaving.
It will also be interesting to see what fine MLB is going to lay down on them for the hacking scandal, if they take away picks or not in the future.

Good stuff. Man, that's an unimpressive list. they sure as hell wouldn't be 10+ GB if they hit on just a few more of those "young studs." Plus, they may not have lost Heyward & Lackey to their "hipper" younger more competitive rivals.

RE: The Cards, was debataing my idiot Cardinal Fan friend (I know, I know ... "idiot Cardinal Fan" is redundant) in the preseason about the Cubs being improved on offense, pitching & defense with their moves. His point was that you can't just put a rotisserie team out there and moves guys around (Zobs, Baez, Bryant, Heyward -- this was before Fowler returned) without having fielding issues. I felt all the players were up to the job and the Cubs would be solid on D, better than the "always so fundamentally sound" Cards. He laughed smugly but wouldn't bet on it. Coward. Well, folks, guess which team is last in fielding in the NL? This particular team has about 60% more errors than the Cubs only 1/3 thru the season ... and another hint: Gee whiz, they have the best fans in all of baseball.

[bbuck22]

LOL ecky some Cards fans seem to need a little reality check.They are in for a long few years imo

[tehmpus]

If only they could fall down in the cellar beneath the Brewers for a few years. Wouldn't that be sweet?

[bbuck22]

Jun 9, 2016 13:37:19 GMT -5 tehmpus said:

If only they could fall down in the cellar beneath the Brewers for a few years. Wouldn't that be sweet?

That would be awesome