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Post by batman66 on Jun 25, 2024 16:55:09 GMT -5
If we offer Alcantara for Tanner Scott, who says no? Scott would need to be extended for me to make that deal. The only other way I make it is if they plan on doing something else MAJOR at the deadline for an impact bat. |
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Post by bryzzobrist on Jun 25, 2024 23:00:22 GMT -5
Why would we trade happ? He's been productive. Definitely would not trade suzu for a low a lottery ticket and eat money to move him. Lets make the team better by filling holes, not by trading away production. We need relief pitching, a 3b and maybe a catcher still. I'm not talking so much about this upcoming deadline , but for them to give any of the minor league players a legit chance, somebody is going to need to be moved. And one guy not mentioned who would probably be pretty tradable but you would not get a lot for , and that is Tauchman because he's ultra cheap. But in general how are they going to fit the following into the roster in 2025 if Bellinger stays around Bellinger CF , RF, 1B Suzuki RF , DH PCA CF Happ LF Caissie LF, RF, DH Morel 3B, DH ...3B experment is likely over when Shaw is ready or Triantos , but who knows what they are doing with him , he's been playing CF often Busch 1B, DH Ballesteros DH Canario OF, DH Ballesteros on the cusp of being ready ( I know he was just promoted to AAA) but he's such an advanced hitter he probably won't need to be there long and I think he's going to struclty DH and be a 3rd string catcher so it's not like they need to spend more time on his catching before they call him up because he's probably never going to be good enough behind the plate to be a regular ML catcher. If ballesteros cant play a major league position, maybe he should be moved. Same with Morel. |
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Post by batman66 on Jun 26, 2024 8:20:54 GMT -5
I'm not talking so much about this upcoming deadline , but for them to give any of the minor league players a legit chance, somebody is going to need to be moved. And one guy not mentioned who would probably be pretty tradable but you would not get a lot for , and that is Tauchman because he's ultra cheap. But in general how are they going to fit the following into the roster in 2025 if Bellinger stays around Bellinger CF , RF, 1B Suzuki RF , DH PCA CF Happ LF Caissie LF, RF, DH Morel 3B, DH ...3B experment is likely over when Shaw is ready or Triantos , but who knows what they are doing with him , he's been playing CF often Busch 1B, DH Ballesteros DH Canario OF, DH Ballesteros on the cusp of being ready ( I know he was just promoted to AAA) but he's such an advanced hitter he probably won't need to be there long and I think he's going to struclty DH and be a 3rd string catcher so it's not like they need to spend more time on his catching before they call him up because he's probably never going to be good enough behind the plate to be a regular ML catcher. If ballesteros cant play a major league position, maybe he should be moved. Same with Morel. Morel , maybe it is best to move him but Ballesteros is the type of hitter that's not real common in todays game. He's only 20 and in AAA and has always had great plate discipline and you don't find a lot of young players like that who walk almost as much as they strike out, or old players for that matter. he has 1167 minor league pa's and he's struck out only 188 times and walked 147 . he can catch and play 1b , he's just not good enough to be an everyday catcher and as a 1B he's a only 5'7" |
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jun 26, 2024 9:40:09 GMT -5
If we offer Alcantara for Tanner Scott, who says no? I’m with Chico here. I am ALL FOR moving some of our top prospects, but not for a rental. The way this team is trending that sort of move is not justified. I’d much rather build a huge package with multiple Alcantaras for a controlled dominant closer like Mason Miller than go after a rental. So you would give up a haul for a highly volatile position (reliever)? I don't care about the control, no thanks. They better not give up the farm for a relief pitcher with 1 year of experience (over 2 seasons) who's already had elbow and shoulder injuries. Miller missed 5 months due to injuries and was/is probably another injury away from Tommy John surgery. Cubs are loaded with pitchers, they can figure it out. Ben Brown is probably the guy who should see the 9th when he gets back, but that's my opinion. |
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jun 26, 2024 9:51:05 GMT -5
New year different names... see the trend? Every year we keep changing the names of guys in the system to be impactful players. Now it's Canario and Caissie/Triantos. Soon it will be Shaw and Cruz/Rojas. We keep just rotating the names while the Cubs continue to be mediocre with nothing spectacular coming out of this highly rated farms system in terms of bats, or at least the Cubs won't give them a shot.
On the flip side, the Cubs are afraid to trade these players for established MLB stars. The "big contract" Swanson is not living up to his contract. This was my fear all along that 2022 was a contract year and his past performance suggested he wouldn't repeat it offensively. I don't want to hear about his defense. He's not paid 177 million to play defense.
If things continue, the Cubs will have 3 of their last 4 seasons under .500, but hey, I was told they are "contenders" and that I was moving the goal posts to determine what a "contender" was.
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Post by batman66 on Jun 26, 2024 10:21:40 GMT -5
I’m with Chico here. I am ALL FOR moving some of our top prospects, but not for a rental. The way this team is trending that sort of move is not justified. I’d much rather build a huge package with multiple Alcantaras for a controlled dominant closer like Mason Miller than go after a rental. So you would give up a haul for a highly volatile position (reliever)? I don't care about the control, no thanks. They better not give up the farm for a relief pitcher with 1 year of experience (over 2 seasons) who's already had elbow and shoulder injuries. Miller missed 5 months due to injuries and was/is probably another injury away from Tommy John surgery. Cubs are loaded with pitchers, they can figure it out. Ben Brown is probably the guy who should see the 9th when he gets back, but that's my opinion. <<Cubs are loaded with pitchers, they can figure it out.>> Can they? You have more confidence than I do. When they trot out Colton fucking Brewer who really should not even be on the team as a late inning guy I'm not so sure they have a clue anymore. Brown would probably be a great closer and reminds me of a young Wainwright and it could help limit his innings this season , but if they keep losing having a legit closer isn't going to matter much anyway. |
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Post by batman66 on Jun 26, 2024 10:29:53 GMT -5
New year different names... see the trend? Every year we keep changing the names of guys in the system to be impactful players. Now it's Canario and Caissie/Triantos. Soon it will be Shaw and Cruz/Rojas. We keep just rotating the names while the Cubs continue to be mediocre with nothing spectacular coming out of this highly rated farms system in terms of bats, or at least the Cubs won't give them a shot. On the flip side, the Cubs are afraid to trade these players for established MLB stars. The "big contract" Swanson is not living up to his contract. This was my fear all along that 2022 was a contract year and his past performance suggested he wouldn't repeat it offensively. I don't want to hear about his defense. He's not paid 177 million to play defense. If things continue, the Cubs will have 3 of their last 4 seasons under .500, but hey, I was told they are "contenders" and that I was moving the goal posts to determine what a "contender" was. Well you did move the goalpost because they did contend last season but contending one season doesn't mean it's a given for the next. But one figures and hopes it will be . But I believe the gist of the conversation anyway was be that they'd be perennial contenders and it's looking like you're going to be right on that time line taking longer because I don't see them turning this around this season with the mentality Jed has that "it has to come from within" I don't know what the fuck they are doing regarding the minor league talent , either play it or trade it . |
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jun 26, 2024 10:52:03 GMT -5
So you would give up a haul for a highly volatile position (reliever)? I don't care about the control, no thanks. They better not give up the farm for a relief pitcher with 1 year of experience (over 2 seasons) who's already had elbow and shoulder injuries. Miller missed 5 months due to injuries and was/is probably another injury away from Tommy John surgery. Cubs are loaded with pitchers, they can figure it out. Ben Brown is probably the guy who should see the 9th when he gets back, but that's my opinion. <<Cubs are loaded with pitchers, they can figure it out.>> Can they? You have more confidence than I do. When they trot out Colton fucking Brewer who really should not even be on the team as a late inning guy I'm not so sure they have a clue anymore. Brown would probably be a great closer and reminds me of a young Wainwright and it could help limit his innings this season , but if they keep losing having a legit closer isn't going to matter much anyway. Then why trade for Miller if they keep losing? No, I'm not confident and to be fair, the starters have dealt with injuries forcing the Cubs to move guys around. With the rotation healthy, when Brown gets back he needs to be given the 9th to see if he's the Cubs version of Mason Miller. Cubs are losing games in the 9th, not the 6th and 7th. I don't want to see the Cubs put Brown in the 6-7th role. Let him sink or swim in the 9th. |
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jun 26, 2024 10:57:23 GMT -5
New year different names... see the trend? Every year we keep changing the names of guys in the system to be impactful players. Now it's Canario and Caissie/Triantos. Soon it will be Shaw and Cruz/Rojas. We keep just rotating the names while the Cubs continue to be mediocre with nothing spectacular coming out of this highly rated farms system in terms of bats, or at least the Cubs won't give them a shot. On the flip side, the Cubs are afraid to trade these players for established MLB stars. The "big contract" Swanson is not living up to his contract. This was my fear all along that 2022 was a contract year and his past performance suggested he wouldn't repeat it offensively. I don't want to hear about his defense. He's not paid 177 million to play defense. If things continue, the Cubs will have 3 of their last 4 seasons under .500, but hey, I was told they are "contenders" and that I was moving the goal posts to determine what a "contender" was. Well you did move the goalpost because they did contend last season but contending one season doesn't mean it's a given for the next. But one figures and hopes it will be . But I believe the gist of the conversation anyway was be that they'd be perennial contenders and it's looking like you're going to be right on that time line taking longer because I don't see them turning this around this season with the mentality Jed has that "it has to come from within" I don't know what the fuck they are doing regarding the minor league talent , either play it or trade it . The issue with the "time line" was to add impactful bats while the young guys start to come up. Bringing back Belly, though I'm glad they did, was not a new addition. IT was a lateral move from 2023. Shota and the trade for Busch were the impactful roster moves. That just wasn't enough, and I said that in the offseason. Without Belly I said they were a 77 win team. With Belly back I went 84-87 (peak). With Belly this is looking like a 77 win team. This team has no plan or direction and honestly, this is making me dislike Tommy even more. |
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Post by TheChico on Jun 26, 2024 11:30:40 GMT -5
This season is a disaster but could be an opportunity too but I have little faith in Jed at this point to resolve the issues or get creative enough to really put this team in a good spot in 2025 and beyond.
Jed is good building a farm but I just don't think he was what it takes to put a serious contender on the field anymore, he just will not take the next big step and just feel content being mid which is unacceptable for a major market team
With ownership, I want to believe they will go over the luxury tax if needed, but have to give Tom a Fucking reason to do so, he wants playoff money and if Jed is building mid teams in hopes making the playoffs then that is just not good enough.
Theo got Tom to go over the luxury tax because he built a team that was worthy of it, this team is not.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jun 26, 2024 11:37:32 GMT -5
Jed is no Theo that's for sure.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jun 26, 2024 11:38:26 GMT -5
On a positive note.... Anthony Rizzo made his Cubs debut on this day 12 years ago.
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Post by batman66 on Jun 26, 2024 11:59:38 GMT -5
<<Cubs are loaded with pitchers, they can figure it out.>> Can they? You have more confidence than I do. When they trot out Colton fucking Brewer who really should not even be on the team as a late inning guy I'm not so sure they have a clue anymore. Brown would probably be a great closer and reminds me of a young Wainwright and it could help limit his innings this season , but if they keep losing having a legit closer isn't going to matter much anyway. Then why trade for Miller if they keep losing? No, I'm not confident and to be fair, the starters have dealt with injuries forcing the Cubs to move guys around. With the rotation healthy, when Brown gets back he needs to be given the 9th to see if he's the Cubs version of Mason Miller. Cubs are losing games in the 9th, not the 6th and 7th. I don't want to see the Cubs put Brown in the 6-7th role. Let him sink or swim in the 9th. trading for Miller would not be just about 2024 they'd have him through 2029 . Yes the starters have dealt with injuries and so has the pen , it's been ridiculous , looking at the current 40 man and I forgot about this first guy , but they have lost at some point all these pitchers to IL stints Almonte who looked like shit at first but was pitching very well Merryweather perhaps the MVP of their pen Leiter Jr Brown Hendricks Taillon Steele Wicks Thompson Smyly I think the only healthy guys who have not had an IL trip are Neris, Assad, Iminaga, Wesneski , Miller and Little. but that doesn't excuse the fact they can't come up with one guy to pitch the 9th inning. I agree, if Brown is to return and be in the pen , let him close, not be a middle inning guy |
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Post by rvn11 on Jun 26, 2024 12:03:22 GMT -5
On a positive note.... Anthony Rizzo made his Cubs debut on this day 12 years ago. Good lord. It's fun to think back on the optimism I had at that time for his arrival. |
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Post by batman66 on Jun 26, 2024 12:11:24 GMT -5
Well you did move the goalpost because they did contend last season but contending one season doesn't mean it's a given for the next. But one figures and hopes it will be . But I believe the gist of the conversation anyway was be that they'd be perennial contenders and it's looking like you're going to be right on that time line taking longer because I don't see them turning this around this season with the mentality Jed has that "it has to come from within" I don't know what the fuck they are doing regarding the minor league talent , either play it or trade it . The issue with the "time line" was to add impactful bats while the young guys start to come up. Bringing back Belly, though I'm glad they did, was not a new addition. IT was a lateral move from 2023. Shota and the trade for Busch were the impactful roster moves. That just wasn't enough, and I said that in the offseason. Without Belly I said they were a 77 win team. With Belly back I went 84-87 (peak). With Belly this is looking like a 77 win team. This team has no plan or direction and honestly, this is making me dislike Tommy even more. With the future and the whole aspect of the rebuild geared towards forming a core with home grown players that come up throught the system I understood to a point of them not really seeking to add veteran "impactful " bats , although they did make a legit effort on Ohtani from what we hear atleast. Where would they put such an "impact bat" other than 3b or 1b when they have a shit ton of middle infield and OF prospects in the system with a lot of them now being in the upper levels of the system. Shota and Busch might have been enough if the other guys were having solid seasons but NOBODY really is . as far as no plan or direction , I'm having a hard time arguing that because I thought they did , but it sure as hell is looking like they don't. |
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Post by thisbuds4u on Jun 26, 2024 12:19:49 GMT -5
This season is a disaster but could be an opportunity too but I have little faith in Jed at this point to resolve the issues or get creative enough to really put this team in a good spot in 2025 and beyond. Jed is good building a farm but I just don't think he was what it takes to put a serious contender on the field anymore, he just will not take the next big step and just feel content being mid which is unacceptable for a major market team With ownership, I want to believe they will go over the luxury tax if needed, but have to give Tom a Fucking reason to do so, he wants playoff money and if Jed is building mid teams in hopes making the playoffs then that is just not good enough. Theo got Tom to go over the luxury tax because he built a team that was worthy of it, this team is not. I can't say Hoyer is good at building up a farm system because players have to prove it at the ML level, something Jed seems reluctant to let them do. Hoyer has given Ricketts a reason to fire his ass with how he has mismanaged the team's payroll. At this point, I wouldn't lose any sleep if the Cubs traded Happ, Suzuki, Swanson and Bellinger and replaced them with Canario, Cassie, Shaw, Triantos and Ballestreros. Hoyer had no problem trading or releasing Rizzo, Bryant, Baez, Schwarber and Contreras, players who helped win a championship so getting rid of players who have done nothing shouldn't be a problem. |
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Post by batman66 on Jun 26, 2024 12:30:08 GMT -5
This season is a disaster but could be an opportunity too but I have little faith in Jed at this point to resolve the issues or get creative enough to really put this team in a good spot in 2025 and beyond. Jed is good building a farm but I just don't think he was what it takes to put a serious contender on the field anymore, he just will not take the next big step and just feel content being mid which is unacceptable for a major market team With ownership, I want to believe they will go over the luxury tax if needed, but have to give Tom a Fucking reason to do so, he wants playoff money and if Jed is building mid teams in hopes making the playoffs then that is just not good enough. Theo got Tom to go over the luxury tax because he built a team that was worthy of it, this team is not. I can't say Hoyer is good at building up a farm system because players have to prove it at the ML level, something Jed seems reluctant to let them do. Hoyer has given Ricketts a reason to fire his ass with how he has mismanaged the team's payroll. At this point, I wouldn't lose any sleep if the Cubs traded Happ, Suzuki, Swanson and Bellinger and replaced them with Canario, Cassie, Shaw, Triantos and Ballestreros. Hoyer had no problem trading or releasing Rizzo, Bryant, Baez, Schwarber and Contreras, players who helped win a championship so getting rid of players who have done nothing shouldn't be a problem. Kind of a big difference in getting rid of players about to walk away in free agency than getting rid of ones still under multiple years of control isn't there? I really don't know what the plan is or was or will be anymore? Was it Jed's goal just to have a top rated farm system ? |
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Post by thisbuds4u on Jun 26, 2024 14:10:09 GMT -5
I can't say Hoyer is good at building up a farm system because players have to prove it at the ML level, something Jed seems reluctant to let them do. Hoyer has given Ricketts a reason to fire his ass with how he has mismanaged the team's payroll. At this point, I wouldn't lose any sleep if the Cubs traded Happ, Suzuki, Swanson and Bellinger and replaced them with Canario, Cassie, Shaw, Triantos and Ballestreros. Hoyer had no problem trading or releasing Rizzo, Bryant, Baez, Schwarber and Contreras, players who helped win a championship so getting rid of players who have done nothing shouldn't be a problem. Kind of a big difference in getting rid of players about to walk away in free agency than getting rid of ones still under multiple years of control isn't there? I really don't know what the plan is or was or will be anymore? Was it Jed's goal just to have a top rated farm system ? I don't see the difference. Hoyer traded away soon-to-be free agents then turned around and signed a new batch to multi-year deals. The problem is they are getting little production from the new group just like before at around the same price. I also don't see the Cubs leap-frogging so many teams to make the playoffs with the offense and bullpen being this bad. I do this as an opportunity to get the kids, in the minors, a chance at the ML level. |
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Post by irishcubfan on Jun 26, 2024 14:18:50 GMT -5
Well you did move the goalpost because they did contend last season but contending one season doesn't mean it's a given for the next. But one figures and hopes it will be . But I believe the gist of the conversation anyway was be that they'd be perennial contenders and it's looking like you're going to be right on that time line taking longer because I don't see them turning this around this season with the mentality Jed has that "it has to come from within" I don't know what the fuck they are doing regarding the minor league talent , either play it or trade it . The issue with the "time line" was to add impactful bats while the young guys start to come up. Bringing back Belly, though I'm glad they did, was not a new addition. IT was a lateral move from 2023. Shota and the trade for Busch were the impactful roster moves. That just wasn't enough, and I said that in the offseason. Without Belly I said they were a 77 win team. With Belly back I went 84-87 (peak). With Belly this is looking like a 77 win team. This team has no plan or direction and honestly, this is making me dislike Tommy even more. Bringing back Bellinger wasn't a lateral move as there wasn't anyway Bellinger could repeat last year. More of a downgrade with the same player. Hoyer himself admitted players had to over perform internal evaluations to contend this year. That in itself shows the Cubs aren't really serious about winning. If the Cubs are serious about the actual on field product they need an Epstein type GM/POBO, an executive who can land the top fish. And importantly an owner willing to spend above the self imposed salary cap. If Epstein wasn't around and it was just Hoyer, would the Cubs have been able to sign Lester? We know the answer to that question. |
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Post by TheChico on Jun 26, 2024 14:42:26 GMT -5
This season is a disaster but could be an opportunity too but I have little faith in Jed at this point to resolve the issues or get creative enough to really put this team in a good spot in 2025 and beyond. Jed is good building a farm but I just don't think he was what it takes to put a serious contender on the field anymore, he just will not take the next big step and just feel content being mid which is unacceptable for a major market team With ownership, I want to believe they will go over the luxury tax if needed, but have to give Tom a Fucking reason to do so, he wants playoff money and if Jed is building mid teams in hopes making the playoffs then that is just not good enough. Theo got Tom to go over the luxury tax because he built a team that was worthy of it, this team is not. I can't say Hoyer is good at building up a farm system because players have to prove it at the ML level, something Jed seems reluctant to let them do. Hoyer has given Ricketts a reason to fire his ass with how he has mismanaged the team's payroll. At this point, I wouldn't lose any sleep if the Cubs traded Happ, Suzuki, Swanson and Bellinger and replaced them with Canario, Cassie, Shaw, Triantos and Ballestreros. Hoyer had no problem trading or releasing Rizzo, Bryant, Baez, Schwarber and Contreras, players who helped win a championship so getting rid of players who have done nothing shouldn't be a problem. The Farm is only good if you use it as an assets to to get needs at the MLB roster in trades to take it to another level or playing them in the majors and Jed does not seem in favor of neither right now. |
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