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Post by jsnhbe1 on May 19, 2016 11:11:19 GMT -5
Instead of having to give up a proven player and several prospects for a young, TOR type since its going to be overly expensive. Teams are asking a lot knowing the cubs have a lot. If the Cubs cab get a young TOR type for a reasonable price then that's the way to go but if not how about born again, and former Cub, Rich Hill. Cheap for his production. About $6-million left this season and he is pitching fantastic, just like last season. He's probably juicing giving he found himself at 37 but, oh well. He may be 38 but he has an expiring contract and has a 2.54 ERA. He has low milage on that arm for a 38-year-old. Trade Vogelbach, as the A's need a DH, and another prospect for Hill.
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Post by TheNatural on May 19, 2016 11:21:09 GMT -5
I was thinking about this yesterday while he was pitching another gem. But really whos to say the A's are sellers. I think its a little too early for TDL ideas because this year is so wacky in regards to current parity.
Had I told you at seasons start that the Phillies, A's, Rays, or Rockies might be buyers. And that the Yanks, Tigers, Halos, Stros, and Dbacks might be sellers. You would have called me insane.
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Post by jsnhbe1 on May 19, 2016 11:24:23 GMT -5
Another thing g to think about is Rich has been fantastic for about a whole year now. If he continues you after you trade for him you could get a steal in free agency. Another John Lackey type cheap deal.
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Post by batman66 on May 19, 2016 12:42:55 GMT -5
Another thing g to think about is Rich has been fantastic for about a whole year now. If he continues you after you trade for him you could get a steal in free agency. Another John Lackey type cheap deal. It's a realistic deal for both teams if the A's are sellers and of course he can stay healthy and effective that long. I think Vogelbach would be a guy Beane would like. I could see something like Vogelbach and Alcantara and a A ball pitcher for Hill and a low level prospect. Two guys the A's can use this season and two guys who are restoring their trade value by their play this season. I think the Cubs would want a little something they could possibly use for the future coming back with Hill if they are giving up Vogs. He should have some solid trade value, he's raking this season, even if it is in the PCL and his bat is showing he's near ready.
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Post by Mike on May 19, 2016 13:37:10 GMT -5
Remember Joey Devine? That dude had hitters baffled. Such a sad story.
Anyway, I don't think we match up with the A's at this time. Zach Neil might flourish in our bullpen, but he got banged up pretty good in the 3 innings he pitched for the A's this year. I doubt the A's would want another Billy Butler, aka Daniel Vogelbach (would he even be an upgrade over Max Muncy?).
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Post by jsnhbe1 on May 19, 2016 14:19:19 GMT -5
It doesn't have to be vogelbach. Could be a different prospect. I just mentioned him. Happ, give McKinney back to the As, whoever it might be that works. I wouldn't give up contrares or almora for Hill though. Hell, Hill for Soler straight up, I don't know.
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Post by fine09 on May 20, 2016 8:01:16 GMT -5
It doesn't have to be vogelbach. Could be a different prospect. I just mentioned him. Happ, give McKinney back to the As, whoever it might be that works. I wouldn't give up contrares or almora for Hill though. Hell, Hill for Soler straight up, I don't know. I don't hate the idea of having Hill as a starter but does that mean that you send down Kyle Hendricks & his 3.51 ERA (was 3.00 before last game) & 1.049 WHIP (outstanding)? Hill's ERA is better at 2.54 but has a higher WHIP at 1.128 so he is good but not all that much. That would be really hard to send Kyle down because he is one of the best #5 starters in all of baseball..
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Post by jsnhbe1 on May 20, 2016 9:07:50 GMT -5
Oakland plays big too.
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Post by zegometer on May 20, 2016 9:33:41 GMT -5
It doesn't have to be vogelbach. Could be a different prospect. I just mentioned him. Happ, give McKinney back to the As, whoever it might be that works. I wouldn't give up contrares or almora for Hill though. Hell, Hill for Soler straight up, I don't know. Wait, what? Trade Soler, who has years of cost control and so much upside for a nomad 36 year old starter who has had 13 starts in the last 2 years? Or should I rephrase... No more than 57 innings pitched in a season for the last 10 years? Personally, I think I'll take my chances keeping Soler myself..
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Post by sosacorks on May 20, 2016 10:23:58 GMT -5
It doesn't have to be vogelbach. Could be a different prospect. I just mentioned him. Happ, give McKinney back to the As, whoever it might be that works. I wouldn't give up contrares or almora for Hill though. Hell, Hill for Soler straight up, I don't know. Wait, what? Trade Soler, who has years of cost control and so much upside for a nomad 36 year old starter who has had 13 starts in the last 2 years? Or should I rephrase... No more than 57 innings pitched in a season for the last 10 years? Personally, I think I'll take my chances keeping Soler myself.. Completely agree! I mean really this is just a goofy idea. Hendricks and Hammel as well as the Cubs have done very well to this point. Immediately after a bad stretch for the team, and a pretty short bad stretch, people want to make trades. There's absolutely no way any 1 of those 4 guys for Rich Hill!! Hell the last thing the Cubs need to worry about is their starting pitching. Is it the starters fault that 2 thru 4 have gone so cold at the plate? Soler may be everybody's Whipping Boy right now and maybe deservedly so but there's no way you trade him for garbage. If anything he goes down to Iowa and works on it and gets it right. Really it's been a pretty short bad stretch so I don't understand all the sky is falling the threads. Before this 3 game series the Cubs were the hottest team in baseball for over a month. I admit i am dissapointed but how people expected them to win every series or ever again is just insane and completely unrealistic.
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Post by jsnhbe1 on May 20, 2016 10:32:25 GMT -5
You guys are missing the point. Hendricks and Hammel are fine for the regular season but they need someone better than them for the playoffs. They can't pitch more than six because they get out up. They need someone who can go 7/8. It may not be hill but someone needs to come. We saw what happened last season and Lackey isn't that much of an upgrade. Hendricks, Hammel, and Lackey are fine #4 playoff pitchers but they have a 1, 2, and three 4's. They need a 2/3 type. I'm not saying it can't be done, look at last season's royals, but history tells us that the outlier not the norm. They need to add someone to increase their chances.
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Post by TheNatural on May 20, 2016 10:35:34 GMT -5
But if your doing well in the playoffs the chances are you arent even using your #5 guy. Between the 5 we have I think we will be alright. My main concern is undoubtedly the BP. Earlier in the year people were saying give them time to get their feet wet. Unfortunately now we are 1/4 of the way and a few guys still dont seem like they got it. Or a few others are really scary everytime they go out.
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Post by Corndog on May 20, 2016 11:25:23 GMT -5
It doesn't have to be vogelbach. Could be a different prospect. I just mentioned him. Happ, give McKinney back to the As, whoever it might be that works. I wouldn't give up contrares or almora for Hill though. Hell, Hill for Soler straight up, I don't know. Wait, what? Trade Soler, who has years of cost control and so much upside for a nomad 36 year old starter who has had 13 starts in the last 2 years? Or should I rephrase... No more than 57 innings pitched in a season for the last 10 years? Personally, I think I'll take my chances keeping Soler myself.. Yeah I definitely wouldn't trade Soler for Hill. I understand getting a young pitcher that would years of control and could potentially replace Lackey when his contract expires, but really the Cubs don't need a starter for the current team. If there is an injury, they can always stretch out Warren or Cahill, I think either of them would be fine as a number 5.
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Post by sosacorks on May 20, 2016 11:31:22 GMT -5
But if your doing well in the playoffs the chances are you arent even using your #5 guy. Between the 5 we have I think we will be alright. My main concern is undoubtedly the BP. Earlier in the year people were saying give them time to get their feet wet. Unfortunately now we are 1/4 of the way and a few guys still dont seem like they got it. Or a few others are really scary everytime they go out. And I completely trust our 1 through 3 going into the playoffs if we do make it. Having Hammel and Hendricks at 4 and 5 is actually a luxury that very few teams, if any have. But the bullpen I have to say I kind of agree but at the same time the starters have gone so long for most of the Season that a lot of the bullpen didn't get much work. For some it may be a matter of them still trying to get there regular season groove going. I'm not trying to make excuses and yes they do need to improve. In a montg We will have a better idea where we stand and if we need something I'm sure Theo will do whatever he can to get it. In short after this very small bad stretch I'm just not worried at all yet.
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Post by TheNatural on May 20, 2016 11:48:52 GMT -5
But if your doing well in the playoffs the chances are you arent even using your #5 guy. Between the 5 we have I think we will be alright. My main concern is undoubtedly the BP. Earlier in the year people were saying give them time to get their feet wet. Unfortunately now we are 1/4 of the way and a few guys still dont seem like they got it. Or a few others are really scary everytime they go out. And I completely trust our 1 through 3 going into the playoffs if we do make it. Having Hammel and Hendricks at 4 and 5 is actually a luxury that very few teams, if any have. But the bullpen I have to say I kind of agree but at the same time the starters have gone so long for most of the Season that a lot of the bullpen didn't get much work. For some it may be a matter of them still trying to get there regular season groove going. I'm not trying to make excuses and yes they do need to improve. In a montg We will have a better idea where we stand and if we need something I'm sure Theo will do whatever he can to get it. In short after this very small bad stretch I'm just not worried at all yet. I wont lie, this small bad stretch has me "moderately" concerned. Not because we lost a few. That was gonna happen and will happen a few more times by years end. Im more concerned that we are seemingly starting to play up or down to our competition. Losing series to the teams we have while stomping on elite teams is strange. Usually championship squads handle the teams they should be beating. I know someone will say they are still MLB teams but really Milwaukee is not. Especially with bum pitchers and their top two bats on the bench. Then again I can easily chalk it up to the fact that our bats are cold currently and that will happen also. Im hoping its the latter. This next stretch of games is pretty important so I hope we get it together. As for the BP thats the one spot Im not liking. They honestly havent caused much damage and this losing streak is mostly because of a lack of offense. But whenever they come in it gets overly interesting for my liking. Cahill looks like a fish out of water. Richards is whatever. Wood has his ups and downs. Strop, for all his talent is too frightening to trust right now. Its not April anymore, heck its almost June. I cant allow myself to accept the excuse of them needing X innings to start to perform going into June anymore. They really need to get it together real soon. Especially if we dont want to over tax our starters so they are at peak performance come SEPT/OCT. Unlike last year I hope we take the throttle off of Lester and Arrieta a little bit in late September. Last year I understood because Arrieta was gunning for the CY and we were in a battle for home field against Pitt. This year Im thinking we might have this wrapped up with a couple weeks to go and then hopefully our top guys can get yanked after 6 innings. Cant do that with an untrustworthy pen.
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Post by sosacorks on May 20, 2016 12:46:45 GMT -5
I think the big surprise in the pen has been Ramirez and Grimm. I expected much more from them. I've always been a backer of Strop but I admit he's not consistent right now. Cahill is actually doing about as well as I expected. Clayton has been garbage and I don't seem them holding onto him much longer unless there is drastic improvement. If they have any needs to address right now I'd say a lefty reliver is #1.
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Post by TheNatural on May 20, 2016 13:24:17 GMT -5
I think the big surprise in the pen has been Ramirez and Grimm. I expected much more from them. I've always been a backer of Strop but I admit he's not consistent right now. Cahill is actually doing about as well as I expected. Clayton has been garbage and I don't seem them holding onto him much longer unless there is drastic improvement. If they have any needs to address right now I'd say a lefty reliver is #1. And this is why Im not a fan of trading for Miller. I know that might not make sense but hear me out. We need a lefty specialist not a lefty who dominates everyone. At his price tag ( which could hinder other signings) and the pieces we would trade, I think we can find a more sensible guy at a cheaper cost. If all we are looking for is a guy who can come in and shut down a lefty bat. IMO I do believe if this BP doesnt shake out soon we will be in the market for several BP arms. And at this point I think there is some misconception that we have to deal from the MLB team. Its not like our farm is barren now. We still have a top system with a lot of talented guys who will probably never see our lineup. I always think about Vogelbach. This guy used to be worth something and to some degree he is finally regaining value. But he has sat in the minors collecting age when he should have been gone long ago. Our MLB team is set to the core ( minus C) for the next half decade/ decade depending on who you ask. I do believe we have dispensable yet desirable players that could net us a lefty specialist and a lights out guy to add to our pen. And it shouldnt cost us a kings ransom.
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Post by fine09 on May 20, 2016 13:27:54 GMT -5
You guys are missing the point. Hendricks and Hammel are fine for the regular season but they need someone better than them for the playoffs. They can't pitch more than six because they get out up. They need someone who can go 7/8. It may not be hill but someone needs to come. We saw what happened last season and Lackey isn't that much of an upgrade. Hendricks, Hammel, and Lackey are fine #4 playoff pitchers but they have a 1, 2, and three 4's. They need a 2/3 type. I'm not saying it can't be done, look at last season's royals, but history tells us that the outlier not the norm. They need to add someone to increase their chances. I don't disagree that Rich Hill wouldn't help the team because I believe he might. I do however disagree with your premise that if Rich & Jason or Kyle pitch the rest of the season that 36 year old Rich Hill (that has been out of baseball for a very long time) will be better in October. And as far as Lackey not being much of an upgrade, do you realize that last year we had "bad" Jason, "bad" Kyle & Dan Haren so yes, Lackey & his 3.31 EAR & 0.097 WHIP is a HUGE upgrade over what we had last year & that is with Lackey having (2) games where he gave up 12 earned runs in just under 12 innings.. In his last (4) games he has a 1.86 ERA.. If we can limit Hammel & Lackeys innings even a little I believe both can be wonderful playoff starters..
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Post by sosacorks on May 20, 2016 15:18:26 GMT -5
Hill hasn't pitched more than 57 innings since 2007. He's a feel good story but any team that trades for him at the deadline would be taking a pretty big gamble.
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Post by jsnhbe1 on May 20, 2016 15:34:19 GMT -5
Hill hasn't pitched more than 57 innings since 2007. He's a feel good story but any team that trades for him at the deadline would be taking a pretty big gamble. Yeah, its a gamble. Not a super prosoect gamble though. Vogs alone might get it done.
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