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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2021 13:11:54 GMT -5
Interesting:
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Post by happtobehere on Aug 24, 2021 14:44:21 GMT -5
MLB proposal in new offer (The Athletic) Salary floor $100 required for all teams and but luxury tax ceiling will be $180 million. Anything over $180 million is 25% hit which is a increase which is currently 20%, no word on multiple offenders. Projected Union response to this: LOL!!!!!!!! I'm not sure it's a LOL situation. It might be a very shrewd move by Manfred and the owners. A 'divide and conquer" approach to negotiations. While everyone focuses on the top wage earners, the majority of players will never reach that status. It's been no secret that service time is a big issue for the players how teams manipulate it and the length of team control. There are a lot of young ballplayers who are vastly underpaid with the way the current CBA is set up. Raising the minimum will force teams like the Pirates and Marlins to spend more unlike there current agenda where they keep players around till they get to expensive and trade them away. Every player is going to have his own best interest at heart? If those bottom wage earners see a significant increase, they will be inclined to vote for this CBA. While $1 million dollars doesn't seem like much to Trout, Lindor or Tatis, it will to the guys making league minimum. Lets stop this lie that young players making league minimum are "vastly underpaid".
Out of one side of people mouths we hear "most prospects don't pan out" and out of the other side we hear, "young players are vastly underpaid".
The majority of players are not underpaid, the majority are millionaires BEFORE they ever set foot on a professional diamond and the majority of those millionaires, never set foot on a big league diamond as a player.
The truly special players, the vastly underpaid players as you suggest, most likely were given millions in bonus money and are offered multi million dollar extensions very early in their career. How long Tatis play without an extension? Acuna Jr.? How many times do teams attempt to take these poor, under paid players and offer them contract extensions and turn them down? Poor Poor underpaid Baez, turning down 200 million dollars. Poor Kris Bryant also turned down 200 plus million. Poor underpaid and under appreciated.
This whole underpaid horse shit needs to be nipped in the bud. Teams invest hundreds of millions of dollars on prospects who never pan out. They take an extreme risk every draft, shelling out millions on players, shell out millions more on international prospects who also more times than not fail to reach the big league levels.
Poor Kris Bryant, the mean ol Cubs manipulated his service time only earned a little over 70 million in his time with the Cubs. Poor Franco, coming to the cheap Rays and only got paid 3.8 million dollars as a 16 year old.
Lets take another look at your flawed philosophy as if we do not know how a free market enterprise works. Those "bottom wage earners"... how do you think those bottom wage earners arbitration salaries are figured? How about their free agent contracts? The more "top heavy" as your suggest, the league is, the higher the arbitration raises become, the more money guys make in free agency, even the lower tier guys.
Contrarily, you believe that raising the floor will make teams hold onto their players and the journeymen will make more, surprise, they WONT! Why? because the Trouts, Betts, Coles etc are still going to get PAID which means teams are going to have less to spend on "ok" players. The medium range players will get cut before reaching free agency and will have to settle for contracts that will pay them less because their market will be over saturated.
Also, the bigger picture is that small market teams can only spend so much, I'm sure the Rays would LOVE to spend 100 million dollars on their roster but they CANNOT afford it. So what happens to competitive balance? Well, the Rays will have to figure out ways to cut spending, meaning they will have to look for savings in the draft... super exciting to see the 100th ranked high schooler going first overall because the Rays cannot afford a 7 million dollar bonus. They will have to cut back spending on the international market because they cannot afford to give the Franco's of the world 4 million dollars.
What looks good on paper, rarely if ever, works out well in reality because people fail to look at all the angles.
IMO, baseball should have a soft cap and a soft floor. The process should remain the same, every year, the luxury tax should raise slightly with the floor set at x amount of dollars. Any team who spends between say the 220 million dollar soft cap and the 100 million dollar soft floor get a % of the money under the luxury tax threshold to spend on amateur talent, either in the draft or internationally. Any team that spends below the floor, will get a % of how much under removed from their spending total.
So lets say the threshold is 220 million, the floor 100 million and the Rays come in at 60 million. for easy math, we will say teams get to spend 5% whatever they are under on amateur talent so a team paying 100 million gets an additional 6 million to spend in the draft. For this scenario, the Rays come in 40 million under the floor so they are penalized 10% on the amount they are under, so instead of getting 6 million, they are penalized 4 million, with a net result of them being plus 2 million for amateur spending.
Or MLB could also use the tier approach in penalizing teams for under spending, basically doing a reverse for over spending, coming in 0-10 million under gets a 5% penalty, 11-20 10%, 21-30 15% and so on.
The way to give teams competitive balance is by allowing smaller spending teams the ability to spend more on amateur talent. That is what baseball continuously fails to recognize. Stern loved to bitch about big market teams spending crazy amounts of money in the draft because they figured out and exploited the loophole, but they were not alone, the Pirates, Royals and Rays were also among the highest spenders on amateur talent. So instead of closing the loop hole for large spending teams, they cut the legs out of a lot of the smaller spending organizations that could only compete with the "big boys" by outspending them on the amateur side of the house.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2021 20:25:44 GMT -5
Universal FA age of 29.5 years regardless of how many years on the MLB roster. MLB would create a 1 Billion dollar arbitration fund.
Nope, never going to fly with the MLBPA.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Sept 2, 2021 10:38:36 GMT -5
Universal FA age of 29.5 years regardless of how many years on the MLB roster. MLB would create a 1 Billion dollar arbitration fund. Nope, never going to fly with the MLBPA. This will completely eliminate service time issues and increase money, pretty significantly by the way, to arbitration eligible players. The kicker here is 29.5, that won't fly with the MLBPA. They're likely going to fight or something closer to 26-27 years old. EDIT: Using Bryant as an example, the Cubs could have started him right away in 2015, BUT........... KB would still be held by the Cubs until this coming offseason. The thing is though, from his arb numbers he would have made a lot more money, but MLBPA will argue that it doesn't come anything close to his FA market value.
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Post by happtobehere on Sept 2, 2021 10:55:59 GMT -5
Universal FA age of 29.5 years regardless of how many years on the MLB roster. MLB would create a 1 Billion dollar arbitration fund. Nope, never going to fly with the MLBPA. That would certainly have an interesting effect on the Cubs off season plans as Wisdom, Ortega, Schwindell, Mills and some others would all become free agents at the end of the year.
Interesting thought, what kind of contract would Wisdom be looking at coming off this season...
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Post by happtobehere on Sept 2, 2021 11:02:26 GMT -5
Universal FA age of 29.5 years regardless of how many years on the MLB roster. MLB would create a 1 Billion dollar arbitration fund. Nope, never going to fly with the MLBPA. This will completely eliminate service time issues and increase money, pretty significantly by the way, to arbitration eligible players. The kicker here is 29.5, that won't fly with the MLBPA. They're likely going to fight or something closer to 26-27 years old. EDIT: Using Bryant as an example, the Cubs could have started him right away in 2015, BUT........... KB would still be held by the Cubs until this coming offseason. The thing is though, from his arb numbers he would have made a lot more money, but MLBPA will argue that it doesn't come anything close to his FA market value. I think the most logical first step is to first change what is considered a "full year of service time" and go with anything more than half a season (82 games) counts as a full season of service time.
The next step, IMO, should be restrictive free agency and nix the Qualifying offer.
An interesting alternative to baseball proposal would be 29.5 years but once you accrue 6 years of service time you can file for restricted free agency.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Sept 2, 2021 14:22:04 GMT -5
Universal FA age of 29.5 years regardless of how many years on the MLB roster. MLB would create a 1 Billion dollar arbitration fund. Nope, never going to fly with the MLBPA. That would certainly have an interesting effect on the Cubs off season plans as Wisdom, Ortega, Schwindell, Mills and some others would all become free agents at the end of the year.
Interesting thought, what kind of contract would Wisdom be looking at coming off this season...
Someone was saying that had this been in affect the Cubs wouldn't have even targeted guys like Wisdom, Schwindel and Ortega the last few years.
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Post by fine09 on Sept 3, 2021 8:39:48 GMT -5
MLB proposal in new offer (The Athletic) Salary floor $100 required for all teams and but luxury tax ceiling will be $180 million. Anything over $180 million is 25% hit which is a increase which is currently 20%, no word on multiple offenders. Projected Union response to this: LOL!!!!!!!! I'm not sure it's a LOL situation. It might be a very shrewd move by Manfred and the owners. A 'divide and conquer" approach to negotiations. While everyone focuses on the top wage earners, the majority of players will never reach that status. It's been no secret that service time is a big issue for the players how teams manipulate it and the length of team control. There are a lot of young ballplayers who are vastly underpaid with the way the current CBA is set up. Raising the minimum will force teams like the Pirates and Marlins to spend more unlike there current agenda where they keep players around till they get to expensive and trade them away. Every player is going to have his own best interest at heart? If those bottom wage earners see a significant increase, they will be inclined to vote for this CBA. While $1 million dollars doesn't seem like much to Trout, Lindor or Tatis, it will to the guys making league minimum. Well for one, all negotiations have to start somewhere so you don't lead with the maximum offer you can live with, you start low knowing that you will have to move up so let's hope that the MLBPU doesn't pull an Anthony & shut off negotiations. And I believe it is well past time that they sculpt the next CBA to address the wellbeing of the majority of the players, not the 1% of the mega stars out there.
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Post by trav768 on Oct 25, 2021 17:37:55 GMT -5
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Post by fine09 on Oct 25, 2021 17:47:59 GMT -5
Almost guaranteed work stoppage this year in my eyes..
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Post by trav768 on Oct 25, 2021 17:55:22 GMT -5
Almost guaranteed work stoppage this year in my eyes.. steroids won't bring back fans this time
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Post by TheChico on Oct 25, 2021 18:00:50 GMT -5
You would think there would be to much to lose to not get something done, after the COVID season where owners and players lost a ton of money you would think they would not want to go through that again to just prove a point while pissing off their dwindling fanbase. Both sides for sure will let the current CBA expire without a new deal and will be a freeze in place but I do think it will get resolved before you have to start canceling spring training and regular season games.
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Post by trav768 on Oct 25, 2021 18:42:17 GMT -5
You would think there would be to much to lose to not get something done, after the COVID season where owners and players lost a ton of money you would think they would not want to go through that again to just prove a point while pissing off their dwindling fanbase. Both sides for sure will let the current CBA expire without a new deal and will be a freeze in place but I do think it will get resolved before you have to start canceling spring training and regular season games. it better. there's nothing that will save MLB if it leads to canceling regular season games
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Post by fine09 on Oct 25, 2021 20:21:11 GMT -5
You would think there would be to much to lose to not get something done, after the COVID season where owners and players lost a ton of money you would think they would not want to go through that again to just prove a point while pissing off their dwindling fanbase. Both sides for sure will let the current CBA expire without a new deal and will be a freeze in place but I do think it will get resolved before you have to start canceling spring training and regular season games. I really hope you are correct but it actually makes too much sense for that to take place..
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Post by TheChico on Oct 25, 2021 22:48:07 GMT -5
You would think there would be to much to lose to not get something done, after the COVID season where owners and players lost a ton of money you would think they would not want to go through that again to just prove a point while pissing off their dwindling fanbase. Both sides for sure will let the current CBA expire without a new deal and will be a freeze in place but I do think it will get resolved before you have to start canceling spring training and regular season games. I really hope you are correct but it actually makes too much sense for that to take place.. Ugh… I know
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Post by lajoiesghost on Oct 26, 2021 8:02:41 GMT -5
You would think there would be to much to lose to not get something done, after the COVID season where owners and players lost a ton of money you would think they would not want to go through that again to just prove a point while pissing off their dwindling fanbase. Both sides for sure will let the current CBA expire without a new deal and will be a freeze in place but I do think it will get resolved before you have to start canceling spring training and regular season games. it better. there's nothing that will save MLB if it leads to canceling regular season games To add to your point, this year many expect kind of a dud of a WS. Other than hoping the cheaters lose, it's a year no one outside of Houston or Atlanta cares. MLB can't go from that to a work stoppage and expect to come out not smelling like shit.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 22:16:12 GMT -5
Lip Srvice?
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Post by bryzzobrist on Oct 28, 2021 13:22:57 GMT -5
it better. there's nothing that will save MLB if it leads to canceling regular season games To add to your point, this year many expect kind of a dud of a WS. Other than hoping the cheaters lose, it's a year no one outside of Houston or Atlanta cares. MLB can't go from that to a work stoppage and expect to come out not smelling like shit. Braves fandom spreads out pretty well here in the south, and MLB fandom in general is very high right now, so i'm sure they'll manage.
You'll see braves fans spread out about 5 or 6 hours each direction from ATL.
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Post by happtobehere on Oct 30, 2021 3:38:09 GMT -5
To add to your point, this year many expect kind of a dud of a WS. Other than hoping the cheaters lose, it's a year no one outside of Houston or Atlanta cares. MLB can't go from that to a work stoppage and expect to come out not smelling like shit. Braves fandom spreads out pretty well here in the south, and MLB fandom in general is very high right now, so i'm sure they'll manage.
You'll see braves fans spread out about 5 or 6 hours each direction from ATL.
The Braves have a massive fan base, in no smart part due to when TBS and TNT carried all their games, also do their dominance in the 90's.
As a kid, I remember having the Cubs on early and then switching over to TBS (when we had it) and having the Braves games on.
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Post by tyxwin on Oct 30, 2021 9:10:40 GMT -5
Braves fandom spreads out pretty well here in the south, and MLB fandom in general is very high right now, so i'm sure they'll manage.
You'll see braves fans spread out about 5 or 6 hours each direction from ATL.
The Braves have a massive fan base, in no smart part due to when TBS and TNT carried all their games, also do their dominance in the 90's.
As a kid, I remember having the Cubs on early and then switching over to TBS (when we had it) and having the Braves games on.
Yeah Braves are one of the most recognizable brands in MLB outside the major market teams. I’m in Indiana and there are plenty of Braves fans here.
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