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Post by Clark Street on Aug 28, 2023 11:22:43 GMT -5
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Post by lu13cubbie on Aug 28, 2023 11:52:35 GMT -5
I read that this morn. Happ, Swanson and Hendricks really heaped the praise on Ross. I'm still torn on how I feel about Ross, but this gets me leaning to pro Ross, again. Seems like I question most Ross moves the first half of the season, then end up liking the results in the second half. |
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Post by chubbycub on Aug 28, 2023 12:36:06 GMT -5
I read that this morn. Happ, Swanson and Hendricks really heaped the praise on Ross. I'm still torn on how I feel about Ross, but this gets me leaning to pro Ross, again. Seems like I question most Ross moves the first half of the season, then end up liking the results in the second half. Me too. |
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Post by batman66 on Aug 28, 2023 12:38:31 GMT -5
I read that this morn. Happ, Swanson and Hendricks really heaped the praise on Ross. I'm still torn on how I feel about Ross, but this gets me leaning to pro Ross, again. Seems like I question most Ross moves the first half of the season, then end up liking the results in the second half. It takes managers a while to figure out the roster they have , even Maddon said for as long as he's been managing it usually takes him until late May/June to figure out who he can rely on use, where and when etc and then a lot will always have their favorites or they might have influence from the front offices on who to push playing time on etc. I've always liked Ross and feel he's the right guy for the next run. He's going to make some head scratching moves and line ups, but all managers do and he's mentioned himself , a lot of the times a guys not in the line up or might not be used there are behind the scene reasons we and the media don't know and I trust him on that. |
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Post by TheChico on Aug 28, 2023 15:12:32 GMT -5
Ross does make some frustrating decisions but if you ask fans what they think about their manager most will think they are terrible with in game decisions because people only remember the ones they get wrong, just like a kicker in football.
What matters the most is how the team preforms and even when they lose the Cubs are giving a 100% and fighting to the end in each game and has all the players working together for what is best for the team which tells me Ross is a excellent leader and that is the most critical role you need from your manager.
I totally get the criticism Ross gets and it is deserved but no question he is highly respected manager in that clubhouse
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Post by cfin on Aug 28, 2023 16:12:18 GMT -5
If you'll note. The Cubs really started coming together as a winning team once the bullpen pieces were set. Alzolay at closer and then Leiter Jr., Merryweather, and Fulmer as setup men. It took Ross a while to get to that arrangement.
I'm not necessarily saying that it's Ross's fault for taking so long to come to this conclusion. But it simply is a fact that it took Ross a while to get there.
To be fair, coming into the season Fulmer as closer made sense. And you certainly hoped that Boxberger could at least be a dependable setup man. Leiter Jr. was also in the mix as a setup man (and he's definitely played that role all season). Hughes and Thompson were also expected to be part of that setup core. And all of that seemed logical, so I'm not faulting Ross for opening the season with this mindset.
But it didn't work.
And then it took Ross too long to figure out what pieces went where in the bullpen. And to be fair on the other end of things... there are managers that go all season and never figure it out.
Having said all of that... I wouldn't put ANY weight on the track record of these setup men for this year having the same success next year. Just because Alzolay, Leiter Jr, Merryweather, and Fulmer have done well this year doesn't mean they'll duplicate that next season. I'd be OK with going into the season hoping they can duplicate, but you've got to be ready to reassign roles quickly based on effectiveness. I'd also be OK with letting some of those setup men walk after the season, because I kind of doubt that they'll all duplicate their performance this season, next season.
If you want to look good as a manager, you have to be able to figure out your bullpen very quickly from the start of the season. You can use track records from previous seasons, but there's only so much rope you can give them before you have to start identifying other effective parts. I'm hoping that Ross uses this season as a learning experience so in future seasons he'll be more apt to make bullpen role changes more quickly when current roles are ineffective.
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Post by batman66 on Aug 28, 2023 18:47:12 GMT -5
If you'll note. The Cubs really started coming together as a winning team once the bullpen pieces were set. Alzolay at closer and then Leiter Jr., Merryweather, and Fulmer as setup men. It took Ross a while to get to that arrangement. I'm not necessarily saying that it's Ross's fault for taking so long to come to this conclusion. But it simply is a fact that it took Ross a while to get there. To be fair, coming into the season Fulmer as closer made sense. And you certainly hoped that Boxberger could at least be a dependable setup man. Leiter Jr. was also in the mix as a setup man (and he's definitely played that role all season). Hughes and Thompson were also expected to be part of that setup core. And all of that seemed logical, so I'm not faulting Ross for opening the season with this mindset. But it didn't work. And then it took Ross too long to figure out what pieces went where in the bullpen. And to be fair on the other end of things... there are managers that go all season and never figure it out. Having said all of that... I wouldn't put ANY weight on the track record of these setup men for this year having the same success next year. Just because Alzolay, Leiter Jr, Merryweather, and Fulmer have done well this year doesn't mean they'll duplicate that next season. I'd be OK with going into the season hoping they can duplicate, but you've got to be ready to reassign roles quickly based on effectiveness. I'd also be OK with letting some of those setup men walk after the season, because I kind of doubt that they'll all duplicate their performance this season, next season. If you want to look good as a manager, you have to be able to figure out your bullpen very quickly from the start of the season. You can use track records from previous seasons, but there's only so much rope you can give them before you have to start identifying other effective parts. I'm hoping that Ross uses this season as a learning experience so in future seasons he'll be more apt to make bullpen role changes more quickly when current roles are ineffective. All true, but like you said when Thompson who looked like he'd be a lights out pen guy you could depend on went to shit and when Hughes never took off and couldn't stay healthy that was a huge hurdle to have to deal with and one injury or pitcher going to shit can have a domino affect on the entire pen and they had two , and it was two young guys they thought they could depend on. Merryweather was a project who at one point looked like a bad one , and good thing they were patient with him. |
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Post by trav768 on Aug 28, 2023 19:01:03 GMT -5
Ross does make some frustrating decisions but if you ask fans what they think about their manager most will think they are terrible with in game decisions because people only remember the ones they get wrong, just like a kicker in football. What matters the most is how the team preforms and even when they lose the Cubs are giving a 100% and fighting to the end in each game and has all the players working together for what is best for the team which tells me Ross is a excellent leader and that is the most critical role you need from your manager. I totally get the criticism Ross gets and it is deserved but no question he is highly respected manager in that clubhouse you can go look at every teams message boards and you'll find that fan complain about frustrating decisions a manger makes over and over. there were posts fire Ross. well who turned this team around with same players? when does Ross get credit for that? |
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Post by cfin on Aug 28, 2023 19:34:56 GMT -5
All true, but like you said when Thompson who looked like he'd be a lights out pen guy you could depend on went to shit and when Hughes never took off and couldn't stay healthy that was a huge hurdle to have to deal with and one injury or pitcher going to shit can have a domino affect on the entire pen and they had two , and it was two young guys they thought they could depend on. Merryweather was a project who at one point looked like a bad one , and good thing they were patient with him. And that's why you don't spend a ton of money on bullpens. I might hesitate to say "everyone" in your bullpen, but you want a large percentage of your bullpen to be optional or cuttable. When a bullpen arm isn't performing, send him down or cut him. If you spend $10M a year on a setup guy that then starts the season throwing shit, you have to continue to throw him out there because he's making $10M a year. Spend $700K on a setup guy, when he throws shit to start the season, you option him or cut him. The quicker you can figure your bullpen - and your bullpen landscape is going to change every single year, because previous success does not equal future success in the bullpen realm - the quicker you can become competitive. I'm not necessarily knocking Ross with this. You go into a season with a plan for your bullpen. That plan didn't work. I might blame Ross for sticking with it a bit too long. But it's also not an instant snap your fingers, try something else, and have immediate success. But if Ross could have figured out the bullpen hierarchy sooner, I think we would have been winning for longer and might be higher up the hill than we are now. |
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Post by lajoiesghost on Aug 31, 2023 14:37:15 GMT -5
It's a fan's nature, and prerogative, to complain about the coaching decisions. When the Cubs first hired Ross, I admit I didn't think much of the idea. As much as I liked his leadership as a player, he was an unproven manager so it seemed the Cubs were not taking the teams chances seriously. (That's OK, I had my doubts as well). I do think he is too slow with the hook. Other than that, what do I know?
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Post by bryzzobrist on Aug 31, 2023 16:08:28 GMT -5
Rossy says he's not great, but he aims to be one day
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Post by batman66 on Aug 31, 2023 16:16:18 GMT -5
It's a fan's nature, and prerogative, to complain about the coaching decisions. When the Cubs first hired Ross, I admit I didn't think much of the idea. As much as I liked his leadership as a player, he was an unproven manager so it seemed the Cubs were not taking the teams chances seriously. (That's OK, I had my doubts as well). I do think he is too slow with the hook. Other than that, what do I know? I can see why you feel he's too slow with the hook , but he knows how to handle and deal with pitchers mentally, and we as fans don't always think about that aspect of it all, so even though a certain game at hand might seem like he's leaving the guy in too long, it could be that he's thinking ahead and trying to make the pitcher feel he has confidence in him which can help a pitchers mentality and not be always looking towards the dugout expecting a quick hook all the time when anything starts to flare up . I trust they know what they are doing , and he's always talking with Hottovy so it's not all just him. |
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Post by trav768 on Aug 31, 2023 16:40:36 GMT -5
It's a fan's nature, and prerogative, to complain about the coaching decisions. When the Cubs first hired Ross, I admit I didn't think much of the idea. As much as I liked his leadership as a player, he was an unproven manager so it seemed the Cubs were not taking the teams chances seriously. (That's OK, I had my doubts as well). I do think he is too slow with the hook. Other than that, what do I know? every manager/coach is a unproven at one point or another. I think Ross has done a decent job with rosters he has been giving. he is starting to get talented players on the roster. yes, Ross has made a lot of questionable decisions, but what manager hasn't? he has gotten this team turned around and in a playoff race, when just a few months ago they were almost in the basement and several games under 500. would love see him managed a roster with talent that is already here or knocking on door at triple A |
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