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Post by Mike on Oct 25, 2024 20:12:37 GMT -5
So when Happ was signed to his extension in April of 2023 they already had Suzuki Bellinger , granted they probably only figured for one season and were getting a pretty good read on the futures of PCA #1 prospect starting the season in AA Alcantara #2 prospect in A+ Davis #3 prospect in AAA Canario #11 in AAA Caissie #13 in in AA I get Happ is a great guy , great clubhouse guy, great leader and a very good player, but when you load up your farm system with a bunch of OF's you get in major trades you make why are you locking up 2 OF spots for the next 3 years when most of them are starting to progress to AA and AAA? I get not all prospects make it and pan out and some are used to trade but the Happ extension never made a lot of sense to me. I mean even he thought he was going to be moved at the deadline in 2022 because of the OF prospect depth they had collected. And to your point, I think only PCA and Davis (before the injuries) actually slated to stay defensively at CF, so all of them corner guys. Caissie's bat made a lot of sense for a switch to 1B, but we ended up getting Busch. Alcantara can play CF, so he'll probably take the PA's away from Tauchman and Wisdom (whenever he played OF) vs LHP. He may even platoon with PCA in CF. I forget what injury Canario had after he came back from his ankle deal, but I guess we'll see how he does in Spring Training. |
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Post by kfidd on Oct 25, 2024 20:37:12 GMT -5
All slug is not created equal. He was bumped down in the order as the season went along because he had such a poor first half. If you are at the top of the order (which I’d argue is where he belongs when he is hot) then sure, you can call his propensity for ending up in scoring position effectively the same as having slug. Because his role at the top of the lineup is to get in scoring position. But in the bottom half of the lineup? Not so much. If he’s batting about 6th like he was for the final two months I want more slug to drive in runs. Moving the chains only gets so far when you are at the bottom of the lineup because you don’t expect those hitters to consistently generate positive results. Or are we thinking he’s best served even lower than that, that sneaky 8-9 hole that turns the lineup over and gets back to the top with runners on base, or in his case in scoring position? Now we have supported the idea that he is a replaceable offensive player because A) that’s what a bottom half of the lineup hitter is and B) in order to accommodate him batting that low you have to have a lot of length at the top and middle which the Cubs simply don’t have. Him and his .335 on base isn’t cutting it from the top and his .373 slug isn’t cutting it from the middle. Can he bat lower? Yep. But that means we have to upgrade elsewhere. Where and how are we doing that? Everyone wants to talk about the things Nico does well while making excuses for the things he doesn’t. How are we realistically upgrading without trading him? The key word there is realistically. So you don’t believe in WAR. You don’t believe getting yourself into scoring position is a valuable skill… You don’t believe contact skills balance a line up You don’t believe that defense up the middle is valuable Your solution to making the team better is by removing the most valuable player in the organization over the past two years. It all makes sense now. You definitely won me over and probably the rest of the board. Also, you apparently believe a package of Morel and Biggi was some type of massive over pay because now Paredes simply cannot be traded so Jed can justify trading a guy with no position in the organization and a reliever. Maybe we should trade Steele too because we don’t have enough strike outs from our starting staff. You know what? A .775 OPS really isn’t that good for a first baseman, might as well trade Busch while we are at it. I never said I don’t believe in WAR. I don’t find it particularly useful because at face value it doesn’t offer much considering it is weighted both in offense and defense. I never said that getting yourself into scoring position is not a valuable skill. I have argued the exact opposite multiple times when discussing Luis Arraez’s value with other posters here. I believe the Cubs need hitters who can drive in runs at consistent excellent rates more than anything else right now. I never said I don’t value contact skills. I do not believe contact skills are so much more valuable than other offensive skills that we can overlook them, especially considering the above. I never said that I don’t believe defense up the middle is valuable. We have been pigeonholed into how we can improve the offense. I think we are very solid defensively across the diamond and can afford a hit if it means we improve the offense. I never said I believe Morel and Bigge plus is too big a trade package to ship out. I said Paredes is the exact type of player that we too frequently have targeted under Hoyer. I advocated trading Morel back last offseason and was shot down here for it multiple times. I never said Steele should be traded because he isn’t a big power arm. I raved about the acquisition of Busch at the time not giving two shits about losing Ferris like many did because you have to give to get. I have also been one of the few in the offseason thread who have very staunchly rebuked the idea of trading Busch. What other words would you like to put in my mouth? You are on a roll, don't stop now. |
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Post by Mike on Oct 25, 2024 22:27:07 GMT -5
Yankees fans gonna be real mad at Torres for not handling that cut off throw, keeping Hernandez at 2B. I bet Jazz takes his spot at 2B next year. I doubt they'll be interested in Hoerner.
EDIT:
Well, Cabrera booted that one... Maybe Yanks go after Hoerner after all.
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Post by chubbycub on Oct 25, 2024 22:46:48 GMT -5
So when Happ was signed to his extension in April of 2023 they already had Suzuki Bellinger , granted they probably only figured for one season and were getting a pretty good read on the futures of PCA #1 prospect starting the season in AA Alcantara #2 prospect in A+ Davis #3 prospect in AAA Canario #11 in AAA Caissie #13 in in AA I get Happ is a great guy , great clubhouse guy, great leader and a very good player, but when you load up your farm system with a bunch of OF's you get in major trades you make why are you locking up 2 OF spots for the next 3 years when most of them are starting to progress to AA and AAA? I get not all prospects make it and pan out and some are used to trade but the Happ extension never made a lot of sense to me. I mean even he thought he was going to be moved at the deadline in 2022 because of the OF prospect depth they had collected. And to your point, I think only PCA and Davis (before the injuries) actually slated to stay defensively at CF, so all of them corner guys. Caissie's bat made a lot of sense for a switch to 1B, but we ended up getting Busch. Alcantara can play CF, so he'll probably take the PA's away from Tauchman and Wisdom (whenever he played OF) vs LHP. He may even platoon with PCA in CF. I forget what injury Canario had after he came back from his ankle deal, but I guess we'll see how he does in Spring Training. No way anybody platoons with PCA. An off day here and there might be okay, but he played his way onto the team and if he already has 120+ games in his glove there is no need for him to have to share CF. That would be a misguided slap in the face by management.
He urrrned it, as John Houseman would say. |
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Post by batman66 on Oct 25, 2024 23:59:18 GMT -5
Kfidd and Happy ,
You guys don't agree on Nico and it should not get to the point it gets ugly , we need both of you on this board to keep it lively.
My whole thing is this , do either of you see them keeping Nico beyond 2026 with another extension?
I sure don't and I'd imagine both of you are going to say no because of Shaw and the other middle infield options they have .
So my whole point is , when should they part ways with Nico?
I say this winter because he has two years of control and there is a weak free agent shortstop class which could have him at peak value.
I'm sure a lot of teams would like to have him at short , but not sure about that now with the surgery.
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Post by Mike on Oct 26, 2024 1:19:36 GMT -5
PCA put up a .570 OPS vs LHP, that's only 2nd worse on the team (Amaya was .4 something). Since Alcantara needs MLB experience and has historically hit lefties better, the high-risk taking defensive style of PCA means he could lose time due to injury. We need a young guy to fill that depth.
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Post by happy on Oct 26, 2024 7:54:39 GMT -5
Kfidd and Happy , You guys don't agree on Nico and it should not get to the point it gets ugly , we need both of you on this board to keep it lively. My whole thing is this , do either of you see them keeping Nico beyond 2026 with another extension? I sure don't and I'd imagine both of you are going to say no because of Shaw and the other middle infield options they have . So my whole point is , when should they part ways with Nico? I say this winter because he has two years of control and there is a weak free agent shortstop class which could have him at peak value. I'm sure a lot of teams would like to have him at short , but not sure about that now with the surgery. Hoerner should be traded when Shaw or Triantos earn the starting second base job. I’m against trading Hoerner (unless it’s part of a much bigger move that requires salary shedding) for the following reasons: 1.) Paredes being a question mark. Nearly everyone agrees Paredes is a concern at third base. His glove last season was awful and his power may or may not play in Wrigley. He was not good in Chicago but also was not good leading up to the trade in Tampa 2.) Shaw has all of 35 games in AAA and only five of those games in AAA came at second base. He only has 34 games total in the Cubs organization at second. One COULD argue he is athletic enough to play short, as he has more games in the minors at short than second, but into every player transitions well. Look at Simmons, world class defense at short, awful at second. Same with Russell. 3.) Nico has been our best position player over the past two seasons. Nico’s skill set is not being respected by this fan base. 4.) the goal is to improve the offense yes? Guess which player on the Chicago Cubs lead the team in oWAR… we need to score more runs, guess who’s score the most runs the past two seasons. We need more production out of the bottom third of the line up, guess who’s scoring runs in the bottom third? We need more situational hitting, who’s hitting over .280 with guys on base and over .290 late and close. Then you have defense. So boo hoo that his slugging percentage isn’t great. He’s still was the most valuable OFFENSIVE player on the team. |
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Post by happy on Oct 26, 2024 7:56:04 GMT -5
PCA put up a .570 OPS vs LHP, that's only 2nd worse on the team (Amaya was .4 something). Since Alcantara needs MLB experience and has historically hit lefties better, the high-risk taking defensive style of PCA means he could lose time due to injury. We need a young guy to fill that depth. We need more slug out of centerfield. We should trade PCA and let Alcántara play center. (End sarcasm). |
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Post by fine09 on Oct 26, 2024 8:38:41 GMT -5
Kfidd and Happy , You guys don't agree on Nico and it should not get to the point it gets ugly , we need both of you on this board to keep it lively. My whole thing is this , do either of you see them keeping Nico beyond 2026 with another extension? I sure don't and I'd imagine both of you are going to say no because of Shaw and the other middle infield options they have . So my whole point is , when should they part ways with Nico? I say this winter because he has two years of control and there is a weak free agent shortstop class which could have him at peak value. I'm sure a lot of teams would like to have him at short , but not sure about that now with the surgery. You are correct that both Kfidd & Happy bring quite a bit to the board so toning it down is a good idea. It's completely okay to disagree without talking down to others or phrasing responses in a way that require a defensive retort. I disagree with what many on here believe but I still value their opinions because I have been swayed a few times to another way of looking at it. This isn't politics where one seems to be required to hate & disrespect the other sides opinions. I will say this & it might not be popular but in the end saving runs is every bit as important as scoring runs. Nico, Dansby, PCA & Happ have saved numerous runs this year which I witnessed first hand & although it isn't a sexy as a bases loaded double it is very important. Who cares if we win 4 to 3 vs. 8 to 7? A win is a win.. I believe Paredes deserves a chance with the Cubs rather that relying on the very small sample size after the deadline trade. Looking back completely in hindsight, it seems that if we had a better BP before the AS break we would have easily made the playoffs by just not blowing easy wins with a completely inept pen so I am not in agreement that the only way the Cubs can be competitive is by signing Soto or trading for Vlad (although yes please on signing Soto)... |
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Post by kfidd on Oct 26, 2024 9:23:48 GMT -5
Kfidd and Happy , You guys don't agree on Nico and it should not get to the point it gets ugly , we need both of you on this board to keep it lively. My whole thing is this , do either of you see them keeping Nico beyond 2026 with another extension? I sure don't and I'd imagine both of you are going to say no because of Shaw and the other middle infield options they have . So my whole point is , when should they part ways with Nico? I say this winter because he has two years of control and there is a weak free agent shortstop class which could have him at peak value. I'm sure a lot of teams would like to have him at short , but not sure about that now with the surgery. You are correct that both Kfidd & Happy bring quite a bit to the board so toning it down is a good idea. It's completely okay to disagree without talking down to others or phrasing responses in a way that require a defensive retort. I disagree with what many on here believe but I still value their opinions because I have been swayed a few times to another way of looking at it. This isn't politics where one seems to be required to hate & disrespect the other sides opinions. I will say this & it might not be popular but in the end saving runs is every bit as important as scoring runs. Nico, Dansby, PCA & Happ have saved numerous runs this year which I witnessed first hand & although it isn't a sexy as a bases loaded double it is very important. Who cares if we win 4 to 3 vs. 8 to 7? A win is a win.. I believe Paredes deserves a chance with the Cubs rather that relying on the very small sample size after the deadline trade. Looking back completely in hindsight, it seems that if we had a better BP before the AS break we would have easily made the playoffs by just not blowing easy wins with a completely inept pen so I am not in agreement that the only way the Cubs can be competitive is by signing Soto or trading for Vlad (although yes please on signing Soto)... It’s not just a small sample size for Paredes though. His slugging slump began in June where he had a 20 game stretch collecting just three extra base hits. One breakout game at the end of the month skewed the numbers a bit but even with that breakout game (9 total bases on June 30th) he carried a .301 slugging percentage from June 7th through the end of the season. But that’s not even the full tale of it. The reality for Paredes is that for much of his career he hasn’t been good. Paredes has the huge challenge ahead of him of proving that the success he has had (2023 and April of 2024) is not solely a byproduct of the ballpark he played in. Even in his one good season, his slugging was .104 points higher at the Trop versus on the road. There’s not really much reason to believe he will be any better in 2025 than what we saw of him last season. He has to make the adjustment from his one dimensional swing for power and it’s not something he’s ever proven he can do before. It’s still mind blowing to me that of his 72 career home runs every single one of them has been to the pull side. Just 14 of his career 146 extra base hits have gone to center and the opposite field. That’s beyond remarkable. So the question really should be why does Paredes deserve a chance to prove he can make the adjustments on a team that should be contending and desperately needs more slug and run production? |
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Post by fine09 on Oct 28, 2024 8:38:46 GMT -5
You are correct that both Kfidd & Happy bring quite a bit to the board so toning it down is a good idea. It's completely okay to disagree without talking down to others or phrasing responses in a way that require a defensive retort. I disagree with what many on here believe but I still value their opinions because I have been swayed a few times to another way of looking at it. This isn't politics where one seems to be required to hate & disrespect the other sides opinions. I will say this & it might not be popular but in the end saving runs is every bit as important as scoring runs. Nico, Dansby, PCA & Happ have saved numerous runs this year which I witnessed first hand & although it isn't a sexy as a bases loaded double it is very important. Who cares if we win 4 to 3 vs. 8 to 7? A win is a win.. I believe Paredes deserves a chance with the Cubs rather that relying on the very small sample size after the deadline trade. Looking back completely in hindsight, it seems that if we had a better BP before the AS break we would have easily made the playoffs by just not blowing easy wins with a completely inept pen so I am not in agreement that the only way the Cubs can be competitive is by signing Soto or trading for Vlad (although yes please on signing Soto)... It’s not just a small sample size for Paredes though. His slugging slump began in June where he had a 20 game stretch collecting just three extra base hits. One breakout game at the end of the month skewed the numbers a bit but even with that breakout game (9 total bases on June 30th) he carried a .301 slugging percentage from June 7th through the end of the season. But that’s not even the full tale of it. The reality for Paredes is that for much of his career he hasn’t been good. Paredes has the huge challenge ahead of him of proving that the success he has had (2023 and April of 2024) is not solely a byproduct of the ballpark he played in. Even in his one good season, his slugging was .104 points higher at the Trop versus on the road. There’s not really much reason to believe he will be any better in 2025 than what we saw of him last season. He has to make the adjustment from his one dimensional swing for power and it’s not something he’s ever proven he can do before. It’s still mind blowing to me that of his 72 career home runs every single one of them has been to the pull side. Just 14 of his career 146 extra base hits have gone to center and the opposite field. That’s beyond remarkable. So the question really should be why does Paredes deserve a chance to prove he can make the adjustments on a team that should be contending and desperately needs more slug and run production? Hopefully he can start hitting to all fields & he can prove that he can be like 2024's 1st. half rather than the 2nd. |
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Post by batman66 on Oct 28, 2024 15:49:07 GMT -5
It’s not just a small sample size for Paredes though. His slugging slump began in June where he had a 20 game stretch collecting just three extra base hits. One breakout game at the end of the month skewed the numbers a bit but even with that breakout game (9 total bases on June 30th) he carried a .301 slugging percentage from June 7th through the end of the season. But that’s not even the full tale of it. The reality for Paredes is that for much of his career he hasn’t been good. Paredes has the huge challenge ahead of him of proving that the success he has had (2023 and April of 2024) is not solely a byproduct of the ballpark he played in. Even in his one good season, his slugging was .104 points higher at the Trop versus on the road. There’s not really much reason to believe he will be any better in 2025 than what we saw of him last season. He has to make the adjustment from his one dimensional swing for power and it’s not something he’s ever proven he can do before. It’s still mind blowing to me that of his 72 career home runs every single one of them has been to the pull side. Just 14 of his career 146 extra base hits have gone to center and the opposite field. That’s beyond remarkable. So the question really should be why does Paredes deserve a chance to prove he can make the adjustments on a team that should be contending and desperately needs more slug and run production? Hopefully he can start hitting to all fields & he can prove that he can be like 2024's 1st. half rather than the 2nd. Hopefully he isn't just handed 3b because they traded for him and Shaw plays his ass off in spring training and has a chance to win the job if they don't trade Nico. |
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Post by fine09 on Oct 28, 2024 20:32:39 GMT -5
Hopefully he can start hitting to all fields & he can prove that he can be like 2024's 1st. half rather than the 2nd. Hopefully he isn't just handed 3b because they traded for him and Shaw plays his ass off in spring training and has a chance to win the job if they don't trade Nico. It would be pretty surprising if they traded Nico this offseason with his recent surgery. I believe the job is Isaac’s to lose but I think Shaw will play 2nd until Nico is ready so if Paredes is not good early & Shaw is a move would be made. |
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Post by happy on Oct 29, 2024 14:23:23 GMT -5
Hopefully he isn't just handed 3b because they traded for him and Shaw plays his ass off in spring training and has a chance to win the job if they don't trade Nico. It would be pretty surprising if they traded Nico this offseason with his recent surgery. I believe the job is Isaac’s to lose but I think Shaw will play 2nd until Nico is ready so if Paredes is not good early & Shaw is a move would be made. Trading Hoerner this season would be epically stupid unless it’s because the Cubs made a massive free agent signing or trade and they need to move Nicos salary as a result. |
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Post by skokiejoe on Oct 31, 2024 18:26:32 GMT -5
Sounds like he will not be back till May 1st
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Post by TheChico on Oct 31, 2024 20:03:10 GMT -5
Sounds like he will not be back till May 1st This is why trading Nico might not be wise, injures will happen and always do, Shaw will get his ABs and might get a good amount early on next season |
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