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Post by thisbuds4u on May 25, 2021 3:10:15 GMT -5
Maybe keeping most of this team intact would be best. I think the Cubs should attempt to trade Baez, Contreras, Kimbrel and Winkler. I think those are three guys that will give us a fairly decent return without giving us a "death kiss".
IMO, the Cubs could trade Baez and in turn, trade for Simmons. If the Cubs feel Amaya can step into the starting back stop, Contreras should bring back a haul!
Kimbrel and Winkler could be replaced by Wick when he is healthy and ready to come back and continue to infuse younger arms from the farm... maybe Marquez depending on his development.
The real issue however is starting pitching. Even if Hendricks continues to pitch like an ace and Alzolay continues developing into a three, we still lack a true formidable one/two. How much are we really going to give up for a guy like Scherzer?
I think the big question is, how does Hoyer feel about the Darvish haul? A lot of people complained about the Darvish haul but I believe we received a lot of really talented, high upside players who could easily break into the top 100 in time. Howard and Hernandez are really exciting also.
It's an interesting year for sure, Cubs have so much talent in the last two years of their contracts that they could fire sell and end up having the best farm system in all of baseball... or they can push their chips in for a run at one more title. They are playing very well, still a lot of baseball to be played by the deadline so anything can happen. I don't think you can nibble though like the Cubs have in the past.
The Cubs are finally developing some pitching that would off-set the cost of re-signing Baez, Bryant and Rizzo. And how much money will be saved when contracts expire after the season. The Cubs payroll for all 3 is a little more than $47 million this year. So how much more would it cost them annually? Trading Contreras doesn't make sense for multiple reasons, the biggest is good catchers are hard to find. Also, Amaya is unproven. With the chance of the DH being voted in, there will be a need for a DH would allow Contreras to rest while still getting his at-bats. We've seen the fall off from the Caratini trade. The positives for the Cubs is they have one of the better infields in baseball, better catching than most teams, a highly ranked bullpen and, when healthy, a decent bench. They could use some outfield help and a starting pitcher or two. A lot depends on how Marquez and others develop. The bottom line is I'm not in favor of trading away ML talent for prospects that may never pan out. The Cubs should build off of the talent they already have while they draft and develop their own players. You sprinkle in a few free agents to fill the gaps while still making the effort to win.
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Post by fine09 on May 25, 2021 7:40:21 GMT -5
I think the Cubs should attempt to trade Baez, Contreras, Kimbrel and Winkler. I think those are three guys that will give us a fairly decent return without giving us a "death kiss".
IMO, the Cubs could trade Baez and in turn, trade for Simmons. If the Cubs feel Amaya can step into the starting back stop, Contreras should bring back a haul!
Kimbrel and Winkler could be replaced by Wick when he is healthy and ready to come back and continue to infuse younger arms from the farm... maybe Marquez depending on his development.
The real issue however is starting pitching. Even if Hendricks continues to pitch like an ace and Alzolay continues developing into a three, we still lack a true formidable one/two. How much are we really going to give up for a guy like Scherzer?
I think the big question is, how does Hoyer feel about the Darvish haul? A lot of people complained about the Darvish haul but I believe we received a lot of really talented, high upside players who could easily break into the top 100 in time. Howard and Hernandez are really exciting also.
It's an interesting year for sure, Cubs have so much talent in the last two years of their contracts that they could fire sell and end up having the best farm system in all of baseball... or they can push their chips in for a run at one more title. They are playing very well, still a lot of baseball to be played by the deadline so anything can happen. I don't think you can nibble though like the Cubs have in the past.
The Cubs are finally developing some pitching that would off-set the cost of re-signing Baez, Bryant and Rizzo. And how much money will be saved when contracts expire after the season. The Cubs payroll for all 3 is a little more than $47 million this year. So how much more would it cost them annually? Trading Contreras doesn't make sense for multiple reasons, the biggest is good catchers are hard to find. Also, Amaya is unproven. With the chance of the DH being voted in, there will be a need for a DH would allow Contreras to rest while still getting his at-bats. We've seen the fall off from the Caratini trade. The positives for the Cubs is they have one of the better infields in baseball, better catching than most teams, a highly ranked bullpen and, when healthy, a decent bench. They could use some outfield help and a starting pitcher or two. A lot depends on how Marquez and others develop. The bottom line is I'm not in favor of trading away ML talent for prospects that may never pan out. The Cubs should build off of the talent they already have while they draft and develop their own players. You sprinkle in a few free agents to fill the gaps while still making the effort to win. I don't completely disagree with your concept & I wouldn't deal Willson at all. However, the other guys are all free agents with the exception of Kimbrel and his option that we are going to lose at years end so I am just trying to get back a massive return as opposed to comp picks at #45 & #79 (roughly) that are almost certain to barely crack the top 10 prospects of the Cubs & may not even be in the top 20. In my view "IF" they trade KB (who is most certainly gone after 21) along with Rizzo (also probably gone) and Kimbrel (before he starts walking guys again or takes a step back from his hot start), they can get at least 2 of the top prospects of the trading teams & others that could contribute quickly. They can also use the salary savings and payroll space next year to potentially extend Javy (on a deal) and either / and Willson & Ian to long term deals AND potentially sign Rizzo back once he hits FA if he is acceptable to playing for the now heavily reinforced Cubs again & retire here..
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Post by batman66 on May 25, 2021 9:41:22 GMT -5
It's going to be VERY interesting to see what they do. I think Jed is FINALLY getting it that the line up needed some different elements like Duffy who might not have the WOW you stats, but gives you good at bats. But do they add on and go for it as a last hurrah with this core, or do they try to bring in as many assets as they can for a future run by trading off some or all of the upcoming free agents. Jed got a solid haul in the Darvish trade, but it was for down the road talent and nothing other than Davies who was going to help any time soon. If they deal now , he needs to get some near ready or already ready players because this team as is, even with some subtractions can still be a solid team and there is no reason to rebuild. It should be clear that a re-tool is the way to go, We are finally seeing some help from the farm with some home grown pitching and a lot of the recent pitching draft picks so far have been pretty impressive. So whatever they finally did to the pitching in the system seems to be working. This team is not the best team on paper and the starting staff isn't that impressive so I'm not sure if trying to make a playoff run is the best way to go and then just let the free agents walk at years end and collect your draft picks , but the team chemistry this year seems to be on point so they are a team that could surprise teams come playoff time because they seem to have that energy and fight in them again that seemed to wain the last few seasons. I'm not sure how I'm going to feel in regards to what they end up doing. It was a VERY strange feeling seeing Lester and Schwarber in other uniforms playing against the Cubs and I can't imagine seeing guys like KB, Baez and Rizzo in other uniforms.
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Post by Mike on May 25, 2021 9:42:43 GMT -5
We have a lot of interchanging parts. SS Sergio Alcantara (claimed of waivers from Detroit this year [J.D. Martinez trade piece]) has been .477 OBP to start IOW and turns 25 in July. Switch hitter, who has .948 OPS, so he's primed for a breakout. Only has a handful of games at 3B.
Higgins, who had a similar OPS in IOW earned a spot on the roster because he can play 3B/1B as well as C, but has only played 2 games at the MLB level.
- - - Duffy/Alcantara/Hoerner/Higgins could be an IF possibility if we sell off.
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Post by TheChico on May 25, 2021 10:49:51 GMT -5
I have been on the sell train all year so far due over half the team becoming free agents after this year. We are in late May and Cubs have their toughest month of the schedule coming up, if June is a success and Cubs are battling for first place then you owe it to the team and the fans to to contend instead. I just hope Hoyer does not do the whole not selling but not being buyers at the deadline move and stand pat.
Either go all in or all out, there is nothing more annoying then taking the middle ground and if the Cubs miss the playoffs then you are stuck with nothing would be upsetting.
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Post by fine09 on May 25, 2021 12:17:27 GMT -5
It's going to be VERY interesting to see what they do. I think Jed is FINALLY getting it that the line up needed some different elements like Duffy who might not have the WOW you stats, but gives you good at bats. But do they add on and go for it as a last hurrah with this core, or do they try to bring in as many assets as they can for a future run by trading off some or all of the upcoming free agents. Jed got a solid haul in the Darvish trade, but it was for down the road talent and nothing other than Davies who was going to help any time soon. If they deal now , he needs to get some near ready or already ready players because this team as is, even with some subtractions can still be a solid team and there is no reason to rebuild. It should be clear that a re-tool is the way to go, We are finally seeing some help from the farm with some home grown pitching and a lot of the recent pitching draft picks so far have been pretty impressive. So whatever they finally did to the pitching in the system seems to be working. This team is not the best team on paper and the starting staff isn't that impressive so I'm not sure if trying to make a playoff run is the best way to go and then just let the free agents walk at years end and collect your draft picks , but the team chemistry this year seems to be on point so they are a team that could surprise teams come playoff time because they seem to have that energy and fight in them again that seemed to wain the last few seasons. I'm not sure how I'm going to feel in regards to what they end up doing. It was a VERY strange feeling seeing Lester and Schwarber in other uniforms playing against the Cubs and I can't imagine seeing guys like KB, Baez and Rizzo in other uniforms. I agree. And to be totally honest this team "Could" win the division & then although unlikely & (things have to go perfect) maybe squeak by Atlanta in the first round but I just cannot fathom a scenario where they could go farther than that. Even to get that far I believe NUMEROUS things have to go our way: JHEy has to hit like last year - KB has to continue his MVP type year - Rizzo has to pick it up at the plate - Baez has to cut down on K's - Willson has to stay healthy - Bote has to get hot - Duffy has to continue at his hottest ever pace at the plate - Kimbrel has to stay one of the best closers in baseball - Hendricks & Davies have to keep lowering their ERA's as the past few games - Arietta has to continue to over-perform & the BP guys have to keep pitching better than they ever have in their lives. That turn-around or continuation seems about as likely as the Tigers winning the AL Central which is why I am taking the position I have (and that I hate by the way). Let's re-tool the farm/younger players with TOP prospects & rookies that can help as soon as next year & set the team up for a good chance at success as opposed to go all in & get damn near nothing for our departing guys with the exception of KB who we might get a mid. 40 pick for..
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Post by batman66 on May 25, 2021 12:21:52 GMT -5
I have been on the sell train all year so far due over half the team becoming free agents after this year. We are in late May and Cubs have their toughest month of the schedule coming up, if June is a success and Cubs are battling for first place then you owe it to the team and the fans to to contend instead. I just hope Hoyer does not do the whole not selling but not being buyers at the deadline move and stand pat. Either go all in or all out, there is nothing more annoying then taking the middle ground and if the Cubs miss the playoffs then you are stuck with nothing would be upsetting. I don't really fear him doing that. I know the Darvish trade was to get out of a contract . But it also was selling high on a player to possibly help the future , so if he does decide to make deals to add , they could actually be complicated type ones by actually doing both selling and adding at the same time. Say trading KB for example, taking him off your roster isn't going to make you better right now or make it look like you are adding , but if you get a player you know can be a big part of the team maybe immediately and years ahead it's not really selling. I just don't want Darvish type returns if they sell. I'm fine with the amount of talents they got back, but I don't want them targeting players who MIGHT help 3-4-5 years down the road. I want players that will help now or at least 2022 and beyond
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Post by happtobehere on May 25, 2021 13:53:10 GMT -5
I think the Cubs should attempt to trade Baez, Contreras, Kimbrel and Winkler. I think those are three guys that will give us a fairly decent return without giving us a "death kiss".
IMO, the Cubs could trade Baez and in turn, trade for Simmons. If the Cubs feel Amaya can step into the starting back stop, Contreras should bring back a haul!
Kimbrel and Winkler could be replaced by Wick when he is healthy and ready to come back and continue to infuse younger arms from the farm... maybe Marquez depending on his development.
The real issue however is starting pitching. Even if Hendricks continues to pitch like an ace and Alzolay continues developing into a three, we still lack a true formidable one/two. How much are we really going to give up for a guy like Scherzer?
I think the big question is, how does Hoyer feel about the Darvish haul? A lot of people complained about the Darvish haul but I believe we received a lot of really talented, high upside players who could easily break into the top 100 in time. Howard and Hernandez are really exciting also.
It's an interesting year for sure, Cubs have so much talent in the last two years of their contracts that they could fire sell and end up having the best farm system in all of baseball... or they can push their chips in for a run at one more title. They are playing very well, still a lot of baseball to be played by the deadline so anything can happen. I don't think you can nibble though like the Cubs have in the past.
The Cubs are finally developing some pitching that would off-set the cost of re-signing Baez, Bryant and Rizzo. And how much money will be saved when contracts expire after the season. The Cubs payroll for all 3 is a little more than $47 million this year. So how much more would it cost them annually? Trading Contreras doesn't make sense for multiple reasons, the biggest is good catchers are hard to find. Also, Amaya is unproven. With the chance of the DH being voted in, there will be a need for a DH would allow Contreras to rest while still getting his at-bats. We've seen the fall off from the Caratini trade. The positives for the Cubs is they have one of the better infields in baseball, better catching than most teams, a highly ranked bullpen and, when healthy, a decent bench. They could use some outfield help and a starting pitcher or two. A lot depends on how Marquez and others develop. The bottom line is I'm not in favor of trading away ML talent for prospects that may never pan out. The Cubs should build off of the talent they already have while they draft and develop their own players. You sprinkle in a few free agents to fill the gaps while still making the effort to win. "I'm not in favor of trading away ML talent for prospects that may never pan out." Yes, you say it time and time again and apparently are blind to the White Sox being in first place, seeing the Indians for years lead their division, watching Boston come out the gate red hot, seeing the Astros for years dominate the West, the A's, the Rays, the Braves etc.
Keep living in the steroid era dream land when the Yankees could buy World Series and sign older free agents without consequence.
When the Cubs won the World Series... what "veterans" were the core? Russell? Bryant? Rizzo? Here is some breaking news for you THE CUBS WON THE WORLD SERIES WITH ONLY 2 VETERAN POSITION PLAYERS STARTING. Game one we had Ross, Zobrist and Fowler.... game 2 it was just Zobrist and Fowler.
So stay on your high horse about keeping veterans and not trading for prospect who may never pan out while the entire league sees things differently. Championships are WON by having a majority of players on their rookie contracts and veterans sprinkled in. NOT vice versa. The Nationals didn't re-sign Harper and watch him lead them to the World Series, they saw Juan Soto and Anthony Rendon lead their offense.
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Post by happtobehere on May 25, 2021 14:11:57 GMT -5
It's going to be VERY interesting to see what they do. I think Jed is FINALLY getting it that the line up needed some different elements like Duffy who might not have the WOW you stats, but gives you good at bats. But do they add on and go for it as a last hurrah with this core, or do they try to bring in as many assets as they can for a future run by trading off some or all of the upcoming free agents. Jed got a solid haul in the Darvish trade, but it was for down the road talent and nothing other than Davies who was going to help any time soon. If they deal now , he needs to get some near ready or already ready players because this team as is, even with some subtractions can still be a solid team and there is no reason to rebuild. It should be clear that a re-tool is the way to go, We are finally seeing some help from the farm with some home grown pitching and a lot of the recent pitching draft picks so far have been pretty impressive. So whatever they finally did to the pitching in the system seems to be working. This team is not the best team on paper and the starting staff isn't that impressive so I'm not sure if trying to make a playoff run is the best way to go and then just let the free agents walk at years end and collect your draft picks , but the team chemistry this year seems to be on point so they are a team that could surprise teams come playoff time because they seem to have that energy and fight in them again that seemed to wain the last few seasons. I'm not sure how I'm going to feel in regards to what they end up doing. It was a VERY strange feeling seeing Lester and Schwarber in other uniforms playing against the Cubs and I can't imagine seeing guys like KB, Baez and Rizzo in other uniforms. I agree. And to be totally honest this team "Could" win the division & then although unlikely & (things have to go perfect) maybe squeak by Atlanta in the first round but I just cannot fathom a scenario where they could go farther than that. Even to get that far I believe NUMEROUS things have to go our way: JHEy has to hit like last year - KB has to continue his MVP type year - Rizzo has to pick it up at the plate - Baez has to cut down on K's - Willson has to stay healthy - Bote has to get hot - Duffy has to continue at his hottest ever pace at the plate - Kimbrel has to stay one of the best closers in baseball - Hendricks & Davies have to keep lowering their ERA's as the past few games - Arietta has to continue to over-perform & the BP guys have to keep pitching better than they ever have in their lives. That turn-around or continuation seems about as likely as the Tigers winning the AL Central which is why I am taking the position I have (and that I hate by the way). Let's re-tool the farm/younger players with TOP prospects & rookies that can help as soon as next year & set the team up for a good chance at success as opposed to go all in & get damn near nothing for our departing guys with the exception of KB who we might get a mid. 40 pick for.. The Cubs offense and bullpen are good enough for a post season run. Rizzo has been fine, Rizzo is being Rizzo. Baez isn't going to cut down on strike outs but he needs to start gathering more hits on the contact he makes. Bote doesn't have to "get hot" Bote shouldn't be starting on a regular basis.
Duffy and Nico have really helped balance the swing and miss of the line up. Rizzo always a professional at bat and Bryant is back being a tough out as well.
The issue is that the Cubs need two very good starting pitchers and one has to be Ace level like Scherzer and I don't think you can mortgage the future on that. Of course they could totally do that.
IMO, I would be SHOCKED if the Cubs held a fire sale at the deadline but my mouth does water at the potential.. Rizzo, Kimbrel, Bryant and Baez should all bring back at least one top 100 prospect but that isn't all, Pederson, if he continues hitting well could net a top 100... Winkler, Chafin, Tepera, Brothers would all be sought after and worthy of a solid prospect. Arrieta and Davies could bring back a solid prospect, even Marsinick, Duffy and Sogard will be sought after by a lot of competitive teams because contact is so rare. If you package some of these lesser but sought after names you could be looking at more top 100 guys... and that isn't even mentioning trading Contreras.
The Cubs could, in one season, go from middle of the pack, underrated farm system, to the best farm system in baseball with a deep free agent market and money to spend to make this team competitive next season.
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Post by tehmpus on May 25, 2021 14:43:39 GMT -5
Sorry, but it's time for the "I told you so's".
Two years ago, I suggested we trade Kris Bryant because he was dead set on free agency, turned down a Cubs extension offer, and really did not show any desire to stay here.
The Cubs did nothing.
Last offseason, I said that this was the LAST CHANCE to trade Bryant since the Cubs would be competitive this year, and it's next to near impossible to trade a great player when your team is competing for 1st place.
Again, the Cubs did nothing.
Sadly, Jed Hoyer has continued playing it safe as Epstein did before him. Not sure if an extension is a good deal? Wait till next year. Not sure if a trade is a good idea? Wait till next year. Hate to clue it in for you peeps, but waiting till next year sometimes closes down possibilities.
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Post by tehmpus on May 25, 2021 14:54:50 GMT -5
The Cubs are finally developing some pitching that would off-set the cost of re-signing Baez, Bryant and Rizzo. And how much money will be saved when contracts expire after the season. The Cubs payroll for all 3 is a little more than $47 million this year. So how much more would it cost them annually? Trading Contreras doesn't make sense for multiple reasons, the biggest is good catchers are hard to find. Also, Amaya is unproven. With the chance of the DH being voted in, there will be a need for a DH would allow Contreras to rest while still getting his at-bats. We've seen the fall off from the Caratini trade. The positives for the Cubs is they have one of the better infields in baseball, better catching than most teams, a highly ranked bullpen and, when healthy, a decent bench. They could use some outfield help and a starting pitcher or two. A lot depends on how Marquez and others develop. The bottom line is I'm not in favor of trading away ML talent for prospects that may never pan out. The Cubs should build off of the talent they already have while they draft and develop their own players. You sprinkle in a few free agents to fill the gaps while still making the effort to win. "I'm not in favor of trading away ML talent for prospects that may never pan out." Yes, you say it time and time again and apparently are blind to the White Sox being in first place, seeing the Indians for years lead their division, watching Boston come out the gate red hot, seeing the Astros for years dominate the West, the A's, the Rays, the Braves etc.
Keep living in the steroid era dream land when the Yankees could buy World Series and sign older free agents without consequence.
When the Cubs won the World Series... what "veterans" were the core? Russell? Bryant? Rizzo? Here is some breaking news for you THE CUBS WON THE WORLD SERIES WITH ONLY 2 VETERAN POSITION PLAYERS STARTING. Game one we had Ross, Zobrist and Fowler.... game 2 it was just Zobrist and Fowler.
So stay on your high horse about keeping veterans and not trading for prospect who may never pan out while the entire league sees things differently. Championships are WON by having a majority of players on their rookie contracts and veterans sprinkled in. NOT vice versa. The Nationals didn't re-sign Harper and watch him lead them to the World Series, they saw Juan Soto and Anthony Rendon lead their offense.
I'm just hoping that at some point these Cubs players realize that this current management team makes solid competitive offers when it comes to extensions. They do not cut you short or seek some sort of home team discount. The last 5 or 6 failed extensions offers were either better than the player received on the open free agent market, or equivalent. Essentially, the only reason to turn down a Cubs extension offer is if the player simply does not like being in Chicago. That's it. You don't like Chicago? I get it. Go be a free agent and GTFO. However, if you are thinking that another team will pay you more, then wake the fuck up. Get woke, quick.
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Post by tehmpus on May 25, 2021 15:06:49 GMT -5
I'm just hoping that at some point these Cubs players realize that this current management team makes solid competitive offers when it comes to extensions. They do not cut you short or seek some sort of home team discount. The last 5 or 6 failed extensions offers were either better than the player received on the open free agent market, or equivalent. Essentially, the only reason to turn down a Cubs extension offer is if the player simply does not like being in Chicago. That's it. You don't like Chicago? I get it. Go be a free agent and GTFO. However, if you are thinking that another team will pay you more, then wake the fuck up. Get woke, quick. Because the players want to bet on themselves in free agency does not mean they don't like being is Chicago. This is a business and nothing personal at all. Stupid is as stupid does. (Forest Gump) History tells us that Cubs extension offers are more than fair. They (the players) need to wake up. You say "Naw... fuck yall... I wanna be a free agent" and THE CUBS AREN"T AN OPTION FOR NEXT YEAR.
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Post by TheChico on May 25, 2021 15:14:24 GMT -5
Because the players want to bet on themselves in free agency does not mean they don't like being is Chicago. This is a business and nothing personal at all. Stupid is as stupid does. (Forest Gump) History tells us that Cubs extension offers are more than fair. They (the players) need to wake up. You say "Naw... fuck yall... I wanna be a free agent" and THE CUBS AREN"T AN OPTION FOR NEXT YEAR. Yeesh.. harsh approach to take. No player would ever want to play for the Cubs with that approach.
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Post by tehmpus on May 25, 2021 15:19:57 GMT -5
Stupid is as stupid does. (Forest Gump) History tells us that Cubs extension offers are more than fair. They (the players) need to wake up. You say "Naw... fuck yall... I wanna be a free agent" and THE CUBS AREN"T AN OPTION FOR NEXT YEAR. Yeesh.. harsh approach to take. No player would ever want to play for the Cubs with that approach. It's the truth. Why would the Cubs seek to bid up one of their free agent players when they were turned down on a very excellent extension offer? I know I wouldn't. But I will point out a Cubs error. There was never a rumor associated with the Cubs offering an extension to Kyle Schwarber, but they cut him loose on a non-tender thinking that no team would offer more than he would have gotten in arbitration, but he ended up getting a superior offer from the Nationals. That is the only time (in my recent memory) that the Cubs undervalued a player and got burned. That was a mistake.
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Post by windangit4life on May 25, 2021 15:22:57 GMT -5
Sorry, but it's time for the "I told you so's". Two years ago, I suggested we trade Kris Bryant because he was dead set on free agency, turned down a Cubs extension offer, and really did not show any desire to stay here. The Cubs did nothing. Last offseason, I said that this was the LAST CHANCE to trade Bryant since the Cubs would be competitive this year, and it's next to near impossible to trade a great player when your team is competing for 1st place. Again, the Cubs did nothing. Sadly, Jed Hoyer has continued playing it safe as Epstein did before him. Not sure if an extension is a good deal? Wait till next year. Not sure if a trade is a good idea? Wait till next year. Hate to clue it in for you peeps, but waiting till next year sometimes closes down possibilities. Well, 2 years ago, there was no extension offer that he turned down, and the Cubs were looking at offers. Same story last off season. They were waiting for a trade that made sense to them and it never materialized. Maybe they should have been more aggressive, but to characterize them as doing "nothing" is intellectually dishonest. You can't just give a player away and they didn't feel the offers were worth what Bryant meant to the franchise. There was always a chance that they could have signed him, he has said that he enjoys playing here. Things didn't work out, it happens.
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Post by tehmpus on May 25, 2021 15:29:02 GMT -5
Sorry, but it's time for the "I told you so's". Two years ago, I suggested we trade Kris Bryant because he was dead set on free agency, turned down a Cubs extension offer, and really did not show any desire to stay here. The Cubs did nothing. Last offseason, I said that this was the LAST CHANCE to trade Bryant since the Cubs would be competitive this year, and it's next to near impossible to trade a great player when your team is competing for 1st place. Again, the Cubs did nothing. Sadly, Jed Hoyer has continued playing it safe as Epstein did before him. Not sure if an extension is a good deal? Wait till next year. Not sure if a trade is a good idea? Wait till next year. Hate to clue it in for you peeps, but waiting till next year sometimes closes down possibilities. Well, 2 years ago, there was no extension offer that he turned down, and the Cubs were looking at offers. Same story last off season. They were waiting for a trade that made sense to them and it never materialized. Maybe they should have been more aggressive, but to characterize them as doing "nothing" is intellectually dishonest. You can't just give a player away and they didn't feel the offers were worth what Bryant meant to the franchise. There was always a chance that they could have signed him, he has said that he enjoys playing here. Things didn't work out, it happens. There were extension talks in the area of 200M total value, and Bryant's camp said no. As for offers on Bryant, I guess we don't and won't know what was offered, but I'm guessing one of those offers was worth more than a comp pick from a turned down Qualifying Offer. Just a guess, but a pretty safe guess. I'm complaining because it looks like the Cubs didn't even try to get something done.
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Post by TheChico on May 25, 2021 15:32:11 GMT -5
Yeesh.. harsh approach to take. No player would ever want to play for the Cubs with that approach. It's the truth. Why would the Cubs seek to bid up one of their free agent players when they were turned down on a very excellent extension offer? I know I wouldn't. But I will point out a Cubs error. There was never a rumor associated with the Cubs offering an extension to Kyle Schwarber, but they cut him loose on a non-tender thinking that no team would offer more than he would have gotten in arbitration, but he ended up getting a superior offer from the Nationals. That is the only time (in my recent memory) that the Cubs undervalued a player and got burned. That was a mistake. IT is not the truth, it is your opinion. We don't know what exactly what they offered, nobody does and the players have a different story too and what might seem like a fair offer to your eyes might not seem that way to the players eyes
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Post by tehmpus on May 25, 2021 15:39:14 GMT -5
It's the truth. Why would the Cubs seek to bid up one of their free agent players when they were turned down on a very excellent extension offer? I know I wouldn't. But I will point out a Cubs error. There was never a rumor associated with the Cubs offering an extension to Kyle Schwarber, but they cut him loose on a non-tender thinking that no team would offer more than he would have gotten in arbitration, but he ended up getting a superior offer from the Nationals. That is the only time (in my recent memory) that the Cubs undervalued a player and got burned. That was a mistake. IT is not the truth, it is your opinion. We don't know what exactly what they offered, nobody does and the players have a different story too and what might seem like a fair offer to your eyes might not seem that way to the players eyes I'm basing my opinion after the fact, comparing rumored Cubs offers to what the player ended up making to the top bidder in free agency. Almost every single time the Cubs offer has either been higher or equivalent to the deal eventually signed by the free agent. It doesn't really matter who's "eyes" are viewing it. Facts are facts. "Betting on yourself" sounds like a couragous, good idea. But in this case, the Cubs have a history of offering excellant extension offers that either are better or equivalent to free agency offers.
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Post by windangit4life on May 25, 2021 15:53:33 GMT -5
Well, 2 years ago, there was no extension offer that he turned down, and the Cubs were looking at offers. Same story last off season. They were waiting for a trade that made sense to them and it never materialized. Maybe they should have been more aggressive, but to characterize them as doing "nothing" is intellectually dishonest. You can't just give a player away and they didn't feel the offers were worth what Bryant meant to the franchise. There was always a chance that they could have signed him, he has said that he enjoys playing here. Things didn't work out, it happens. There were extension talks in the area of 200M total value, and Bryant's camp said no. As for offers on Bryant, I guess we don't and won't know what was offered, but I'm guessing one of those offers was worth more than a comp pick from a turned down Qualifying Offer. Just a guess, but a pretty safe guess. I'm complaining because it looks like the Cubs didn't even try to get something done. Those supposed offers were never confirmed and even seem to have been refuted by both sides. As for offers, it's easy to say they got less than what we would get for a pick for a qualifying offer, but does that mean we take a lesser offer because we "hey, something is better than nothing, even if it isn't fair value for the player. Bottom line, it's easy being a Monday morning quarterback. It's a LOT harder to be in the game at the time.
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Post by Mike on May 25, 2021 15:55:00 GMT -5
Remember when we were sending Bryant to ATL for Riley and a few pitchers?
Riley 47G 181PA .320/.414/.549, .229 ISO, -3.3 Def 591k AAV, FA 2026 Bryant43G 180PA .312/.406/.604, .292 ISO, -0.8 Def 19.5M AAV FA 2022
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