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Post by happtobehere on May 12, 2021 22:06:36 GMT -5
I think we could extend Contreras, who'd become extra valuable if/when E-strike zone is implemented. He can trade off days with Amaya behind the plate if/when DH is implemented. But that's a conversation for after Spring Training... Because, the thing is, with the CBA ending and work stoppage a real possiblity, trading big contracts off of the books at the All-Star Break would benefit the Cubs more ways than one. It's a strategy that could also make Heyward waive his 10/5 rights. We all know that lightning in a bottle can happen on teams where veterans are on short deals supplementing the young talent. That's where we're at next season, whether we hang onto our stars or not. Contreras has now turned himself into a plus pitch framer so the electronic strike zone wouldn't make him any more or less valuable.
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Post by TheChico on May 12, 2021 22:10:03 GMT -5
I think we could extend Contreras, who'd become extra valuable if/when E-strike zone is implemented. He can trade off days with Amaya behind the plate if/when DH is implemented. But that's a conversation for after Spring Training... Because, the thing is, with the CBA ending and work stoppage a real possiblity, trading big contracts off of the books at the All-Star Break would benefit the Cubs more ways than one. It's a strategy that could also make Heyward waive his 10/5 rights. We all know that lightning in a bottle can happen on teams where veterans are on short deals supplementing the young talent. That's where we're at next season, whether we hang onto our stars or not. No real reason to keep Contreras if you going to rebuild, high quality catching depth is something that should be the Cubs strength coming soon and if Amaya bat continues to improve and you are rebuilding then mind as well give Amaya the starting gig and go through the growing pains at the catching position only and get a strong in return for Contreras who will be 30 next season so extending him is not really ideal even with the DH coming along in 2022. Also both sides cannot afford a work stoppage especially the owners, so they will get the new CBA worked out but will drag out to the max before it effects spring training and the regular season in 2022.
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Post by bryzzobrist on May 12, 2021 23:21:05 GMT -5
Definitely agree that there has been some overpays in recent years (Heyward?). And I'm not saying I want to overpay for Rizzo. But I would rather pay fair-market value for Rizzo and let Bryant walk, than to pay fair-market value for Bryant and let Rizzo walk. If you can pay both of them fair market value, I'm fine with that too. But that's why I'd put the focus on Rizzo first, then see what's left over for Bryant. If Rizzo wants an absurd contract then let him walk. Completely agree! Last year was kinda a down year for Rizz. So far its kinda a down year this season as well. I dont see a player giving you that two seasons in a row and then getting a massive payday off of past peformance. I know he's streaky and bound to go off, but if he doesn't he'll have wished he accepted the Cubs' extension offer instead of pouting over it and calling off talks. I see it as a 50/50 gamble as to wether he gets what hes asking for or if he signs for half of the money we offered him All of our 2016 players feel that the organization owes them something, and want big bucks. Just IMO Current zips protection for Rizztopher: 2021: 2.4 2022: 2.0 2023: 1.6 I love him too, but this is business. We shouldn't give an enormous deal to a guy turning 32 this year with a history of back issues and projections that don't match the years or aav that were talking about. Or should we? 🤔 He's a huge asset and a good clubhouse guy but if we start caring TOO much about intangibles we might end up in exactly another jhey situation
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Post by thisbuds4u on May 13, 2021 2:38:27 GMT -5
No. With very few exceptions, those huge contracts don't work out and can handcuff a team for years. Imagine the TWO very good players you could get for 18 mil each. By and large, the star players are paid to put butts in the seats, which they do. But as far as production, it is almost always an overpay. This isn't a slight to Bryant by any means, just my personal opinion on a decision based on value. I would much rather trust my scouting and extend a guy early than pay top dollar to keep a guy well past his prime. Look what Milwaukee did with Yelich. They extended him through 2028 for an average of just under $24 mil. They did a similar deal with Braun, extended early and had his prime years cheap. Sure, Braun may have been a little pricey the last couple years but nowhere near an albatross contract. Brewers are a small market and have to be smart with their money and they are. Yelich's deal was very unique in the sense that he was still under contract for three more season due to the extension he signed with the Marlins. Also, the Brewers are not a team that flirts with the luxury tax, Yelich's contract will hurt them MORE than signing KB at 10 million more per season.
If Yelich can stay healthy, his contract will not hurt the Brewers. He's locked up long-term at a very reasonable price. If the Brewers decided to trade him, I would expect that there would be many teams who would be in the market for his services. I wouldn't mind if he was wearing a Cubs uniform. Truth be told, it wouldn't surprise me if the White Sox didn't make a play for Yelich. They need outfield help and they have a lot of young assets they could deal.
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Post by thisbuds4u on May 13, 2021 3:20:36 GMT -5
It would make no sense to FINALLY develop some young pitchers and surround them with a bunch of cast-offs from other teams. If Hoyer decides to trade Bryant, Baez, Rizzo or Contreras, then he better get some ML-ready players in return or get serious in the free agent market.
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Post by nukeslide on May 13, 2021 8:18:16 GMT -5
Cubs say no. No way
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on May 13, 2021 9:22:18 GMT -5
No matter how good KB becomes, most Cub fans can't come back from the ripping they gave him the last 2 years.
Someone called KB a complimentary piece who doesn't carry a team.... he's literally carried the Cubs all year LOL Bryant IMO, has been the best player in the National League, slightly more valuable than Acuna Jr.
Absolutely extend/pay KB now and make him the priority. I don't want assets that may never pan out. I prefer the sure thing. We'll be crying in 2-3 years about how awful the 90 loss Cubs teams are, mark my words.
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Post by happtobehere on May 13, 2021 9:56:05 GMT -5
No matter how good KB becomes, most Cub fans can't come back from the ripping they gave him the last 2 years. Someone called KB a complimentary piece who doesn't carry a team.... he's literally carried the Cubs all year LOL Bryant IMO, has been the best player in the National League, slightly more valuable than Acuna Jr. Absolutely extend/pay KB now and make him the priority. I don't want assets that may never pan out. I prefer the sure thing. We'll be crying in 2-3 years about how awful the 90 loss Cubs teams are, mark my words. It's interesting to me how most of the "fans" on this board react.
Yesterday, a lot of fans were losing their minds about how the Cubs played, yet they fully understand that this team is going to be sellers at the deadline. They are not looking at the positive building blocks and positive play from some of their players.
The same fans are obsessed with re-signing Rizzo who, as of right now, is a shell of his former self at the plate. And I totally get wanting Rizzo back, I also want him back but not at the expense of Bryant.
IMO, fans are undervaluing Bryant. Especially when it comes to re-tooling team. First of all he is a complete hitter, especially now that he has re-worked his swing to handle the high fastball. He takes walks, pounds doubles, is an excellent, world class base runner and hits home runs. He is exactly the type of middle of the order bat you want, a guy who flirts with .300 and even if he is struggling offensively will still help the team by taking walks. He is still young, he is versatile, he isn't going to hold prospects back because he bounce all the diamond. Sometimes I wonder if we are so accustom to seeing bad baseball that we don't even realize a great player when we see one.
It's funny to me to hear people complain about a long term contract with Bryant but argue that we should extend/re-sign Rizzo for 4-5 years...
Here is something about Bryant this season that I don't think people understand: Fastballs .311 BA Off speed .300 BA Breaking .306 BA
Does anyone realize how rare it is for a guy to hit all three well?
Now I do completely disagree on your view of prospects, you have to take a chances on prospects because you simply cannot build a winning team without them.
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Post by lu13cubbie on May 13, 2021 10:08:56 GMT -5
No matter how good KB becomes, most Cub fans can't come back from the ripping they gave him the last 2 years. Someone called KB a complimentary piece who doesn't carry a team.... he's literally carried the Cubs all year LOL Bryant IMO, has been the best player in the National League, slightly more valuable than Acuna Jr. Absolutely extend/pay KB now and make him the priority. I don't want assets that may never pan out. I prefer the sure thing. We'll be crying in 2-3 years about how awful the 90 loss Cubs teams are, mark my words. "MOST" cub fans have been ripping Bryant? LOL
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Post by irishcubfan on May 13, 2021 10:23:33 GMT -5
Cubs have zero interest in signing KB.
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Post by Cubtastic on May 13, 2021 10:39:31 GMT -5
Who says no right now? Kris Bryant or the Cubs
7 years 248.5 million
That would put him at a 35.5 AAV, .5 million over Rendon for the same amount of years.
IMO, Rendon should have won the MVP the year he hit free agency. Yes, Bellinger had a fantastic year and the Dodgers were a playoff team but the Nationals completely turned their season around once Rendon came off the IL.
Anyway, IMO, Bryant and Rendon are a push. I think Rendon is the better third baseman but Bryant's ability (and willingness) to play all over the diamond erases the edge that Rendon has defensively at third.
No, they need a rebuild in the worst way.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on May 13, 2021 10:46:07 GMT -5
No matter how good KB becomes, most Cub fans can't come back from the ripping they gave him the last 2 years. Someone called KB a complimentary piece who doesn't carry a team.... he's literally carried the Cubs all year LOL Bryant IMO, has been the best player in the National League, slightly more valuable than Acuna Jr. Absolutely extend/pay KB now and make him the priority. I don't want assets that may never pan out. I prefer the sure thing. We'll be crying in 2-3 years about how awful the 90 loss Cubs teams are, mark my words.
Now I do completely disagree on your view of prospects, you have to take a chances on prospects because you simply cannot build a winning team without them.
I was only referring to trading Bryant. Not prospects in general.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on May 13, 2021 10:46:29 GMT -5
No matter how good KB becomes, most Cub fans can't come back from the ripping they gave him the last 2 years. Someone called KB a complimentary piece who doesn't carry a team.... he's literally carried the Cubs all year LOL Bryant IMO, has been the best player in the National League, slightly more valuable than Acuna Jr. Absolutely extend/pay KB now and make him the priority. I don't want assets that may never pan out. I prefer the sure thing. We'll be crying in 2-3 years about how awful the 90 loss Cubs teams are, mark my words. "MOST" cub fans have been ripping Bryant? LOL They sure have... for years, this board included.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on May 13, 2021 10:46:51 GMT -5
Who says no right now? Kris Bryant or the Cubs
7 years 248.5 million
That would put him at a 35.5 AAV, .5 million over Rendon for the same amount of years.
IMO, Rendon should have won the MVP the year he hit free agency. Yes, Bellinger had a fantastic year and the Dodgers were a playoff team but the Nationals completely turned their season around once Rendon came off the IL.
Anyway, IMO, Bryant and Rendon are a push. I think Rendon is the better third baseman but Bryant's ability (and willingness) to play all over the diamond erases the edge that Rendon has defensively at third.
No, they need a rebuild in the worst way. No, they need a retool, not a rebuild.
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Post by TheChico on May 13, 2021 10:49:06 GMT -5
You got to pay the man!! It is that simple!
Bryant is heading to free agent and there is no doubt about that, there is really no incentive for him to sign an extension at this point and he is also a Boras client so extension chances were out the window a couple seasons ago, but no worries if the Cubs act like a major market team they are then paying him should not be a problem especially with payroll dropping all the way down to $50 million after the season with no extensions and Heyward contract should have no weight on anything since there will only be 2 years remaining.
Another cool stat line:
His batting average is .308 BUT his BABIP is only .354 which tells you there is very little luck to no luck involved in what he has done this year and he is just flat out dominate at the plate.
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Post by Cubtastic on May 13, 2021 10:58:22 GMT -5
No, they need a rebuild in the worst way. No, they need a retool, not a rebuild. Disagree, they have not been a serious contender for a championship since 2017, it's 2021. They are going in the wrong direction, they are not close, they are not anywhere close, and they won't be for quite some time. The window has slammed shut!
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on May 13, 2021 11:16:54 GMT -5
No, they need a retool, not a rebuild. Disagree, they have not been a serious contender for a championship since 2017, it's 2021. They are going in the wrong direction, they are not close, they are not anywhere close, and they won't be for quite some time. The window has slammed shut! The Cubs were a contended in 2018. They went 15-11 vs the Brewers and Dodgers, winning both season series, in which they played something like 50 days in a row without a day off to end the season. That was ridiculously unfair to the Cubs. Rebuild means everyone goes.... KB, Baez, Willy, Hendricks, Rizzo, etc, all of them.
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Post by Cubtastic on May 13, 2021 11:29:24 GMT -5
Disagree, they have not been a serious contender for a championship since 2017, it's 2021. They are going in the wrong direction, they are not close, they are not anywhere close, and they won't be for quite some time. The window has slammed shut! The Cubs were a contended in 2018. They went 15-11 vs the Brewers and Dodgers, winning both season series, in which they played something like 50 days in a row without a day off to end the season. That was ridiculously unfair to the Cubs. Rebuild means everyone goes.... KB, Baez, Willy, Hendricks, Rizzo, etc, all of them. I'm sorry, window has closed. I know it's tough to come to that realization but if you take an objective look at this baseball team, you come to the conclusion that they're very average and there are several teams in the national League that are much better
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on May 13, 2021 11:31:10 GMT -5
The Cubs were a contended in 2018. They went 15-11 vs the Brewers and Dodgers, winning both season series, in which they played something like 50 days in a row without a day off to end the season. That was ridiculously unfair to the Cubs. Rebuild means everyone goes.... KB, Baez, Willy, Hendricks, Rizzo, etc, all of them. I'm sorry, window has closed. I know it's tough to come to that realization but if you take an objective look at this baseball team, you come to the conclusion that they're very average and there are several teams in the national League that are much better A few tools from the tool shed and you can pry that window open pretty easily. There's no need to bulldoze the whole house that's pretty much less than 30 years old.
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Post by bryzzobrist on May 13, 2021 11:34:26 GMT -5
I've definitely been critical of KB at times. The greivance screwed us and put us in the position to where we couldn't trade him even though it may have made sense to do so at the time. It's also pretty shitty for fans to see a star player file a greivance against the team and put so much bad publicity on the cubs for not technically doing anything wrong. Another thing is I've never once seen a quote or interview from KB talking about how much he loves chicago and the team and the fans. Notta once. Atleast not in a genuine way, but instead more of a "going through the motions in an interview" kinda way. I've only heard complaints about things from KB, and how the fans treat him with the "what have you done for me lately" attitude. Then, he's always seemed soft and unable to deal w/ nagging injuries the way other players seem to be able to. To be fair, he recently stated that those injuries were worse than we knew about. And, oh yea, the time where he needed several days off because a ball almost hit him. He seemed/seems soft mentally and physically compared to a guy like Willy let's say. I also think it's funny that a grown ass married man spends so much time with his dad and that his dad has so much of a say so in his life. Not that that's a bad thing, just seems to coincide with him coming across as being a little bit of a sissy. That being said, love the guy, LOL. Go ahead, rip me a new one, just stating my opinions and some reasons why fans have been annoyed by him at times.
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