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Post by TheChico on Jun 16, 2021 11:02:37 GMT -5
Cubs pitchers to watch are Tommy Nance, in his last appearance his spin rate was from a very high 2900 RPM on his breaking ball to 2787 and avoided using the slider, which is a sign he might was using something, but it was only 17 pitches and by far his worst outing since debuting. Not saying he was using stuff but a guy you need to monitor going forward as his last outing was kind of a red flag.
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Post by malagacubs on Jun 16, 2021 11:07:52 GMT -5
Changed title to reflect all the updates.
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Post by rvn11 on Jun 16, 2021 11:11:31 GMT -5
Cubs pitchers to watch are Tommy Nance, in his last appearance his spin rate was from a very high 2900 RPM on his breaking ball to 2787 and avoided using the slider, which is a sign he might was using something, but it was only 17 pitches and by far his worst outing since debuting. Not saying he was using stuff but a guy you need to monitor going forward as his last outing was kind of a red flag. He was mentioned last week or so as one of the guys whose spin rate dropped a decent amount, but he still struck out 2 in said outing. Considering how he came out of nowhere it can't really be that much of a surprise. |
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Post by batman66 on Jun 16, 2021 11:58:07 GMT -5
Glasnow diagnosed with partially torn ucl, says mlb changing mid season partly to blame. I love Glasnow , great kid and very talented. But should you really bitch that your injury came about because in season MLB changed the rules and took away your ability to use "sticky stuff " and sunscreen as a substance to help grip a baseball. I'm 58 years old, watched baseball on a regular basis since I was 6 and I was always under the impression you can't use ANY substance other than the rosin bag they put on the mound. |
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Post by rvn11 on Jun 16, 2021 12:07:19 GMT -5
Glasnow diagnosed with partially torn ucl, says mlb changing mid season partly to blame. I love Glasnow , great kid and very talented. But should you really bitch that your injury came about because in season MLB changed the rules and took away your ability to use "sticky stuff " and sunscreen as a substance to help grip a baseball. I'm 58 years old, watched baseball on a regular basis since I was 6 and I was always under the impression you can't use ANY substance other than the rosin bag they put on the mound. Agreed, if you can't throw a pitch your way without extra grip, isn't that entirely the point of what MLB is doing? I understand changing mid-season is a bit extreme and I'll give him and others like Bauer some wiggle room there, but it's not like MLB didn't warn them in the off season, only to see pitchers seemingly call their bluff and increase the amount of usage. |
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Post by bryzzobrist on Jun 16, 2021 12:21:22 GMT -5
Glasnow diagnosed with partially torn ucl, says mlb changing mid season partly to blame. It's funny to how pitchers are basically all admitting to cheating. Is it cheating if it's a rule that's been overlooked and disregarded since always? Or negligence on the part of MLB? Should we also crack down on players wearing chains outside of their jersey? That's also a rule, another one that's overlooked. Reminds me of some laws in my neighborhood- it's illegal to have your garage door open after 3pm. It's a law here. It's also never been enforced once to my knowledge. It's also illegal to honk the horn of your car in my neighborhood. Another law that's never been enforced to my knowledge. If you drive 51 mph in a 50 mph zone, are you a criminal? That's how I've always viewed pitcher substances and pine tar on bats- those are "rules" that are there but the standard is to break those rules because the consequences have been non-existent. If MLB is really going to crack down, players will stop using the substances because the rules are finally being enforced after this long. I wouldn't call any pitcher using spidertac or anything else a cheater, unless you're fine with calling most pitchers cheaters. If rules are strictly enforced and that becomes the norm and a couple pitchers still try to use it, then maybe you could call those guys cheaters, but up until now it's just been a standard part of the game. On a side note, MLB should allow Dillon Maples to use whatever he wants, because that man is dangerous with a baseball. I'd hate to face him at the plate! |
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Post by TheChico on Jun 17, 2021 10:38:04 GMT -5
From bleacher Nation on Tommy Nance outing:
"• That play was in aid of Tommy Nance, who threw two interesting innings – six straight outs, all on balls in play, none particularly smoked – and generated zero whiffs among his 16 pitches. His velocity continues to trend down, as does the spin rate, and I wonder if it’s a grip substance adjustment issue, an exposure issue, a mechanical/physical issue, or a combination of everything. He does not look like the guy he was when he first came up. He didn’t look *bad,* mind you, but I just didn’t see that same explosive late ride on the fastball (and the data shows it is indeed dropping more), and the slider wasn’t quite as sharp. Curveball still looked good to the eye, though the data shows a significant reduction in horizontal and vertical movement the last few outings."
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Post by batman66 on Jun 17, 2021 11:22:24 GMT -5
From bleacher Nation on Tommy Nance outing: "• That play was in aid of Tommy Nance, who threw two interesting innings – six straight outs, all on balls in play, none particularly smoked – and generated zero whiffs among his 16 pitches. His velocity continues to trend down, as does the spin rate, and I wonder if it’s a grip substance adjustment issue, an exposure issue, a mechanical/physical issue, or a combination of everything. He does not look like the guy he was when he first came up. He didn’t look *bad,* mind you, but I just didn’t see that same explosive late ride on the fastball (and the data shows it is indeed dropping more), and the slider wasn’t quite as sharp. Curveball still looked good to the eye, though the data shows a significant reduction in horizontal and vertical movement the last few outings." Not really surprising because if his stuff had always been this good we would of heard about him before. Why isn't anybody mentioning deGrom and him leaving his last ywo outings with different discomforts because hey maybe he had to start gripping the ball tighter like Glasnow said he did after this was mentioned it would be policed. deGrom in the past would throw 98-100 this year he's 100-102 |
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Post by thisbuds4u on Jun 18, 2021 14:11:41 GMT -5
The simple solution seems to be, make the ball easier to grip?
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Post by batman66 on Jun 18, 2021 14:18:16 GMT -5
The simple solution seems to be, make the ball easier to grip? Why would that be ? The entire issue is MLB trying to get more offense into the game with all these rule changes they have been comtemplating is it not? I mean they've even thought about moving the mound back which to me is ridiculous and a HUGE danger to a pitchers arm who's trained his entire life to throw and get his pitches to break from 60 feet 6 inches. So if the ball is easier to grip then you are right back to the higher spin rates and less offense where we are right now. It's not really about using substances. |
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Post by rvn11 on Jun 18, 2021 14:45:22 GMT -5
Just establish a baseline with the ball and keep it there, no changing things, no "centering the pill." The ball was rarely discussed from the infamous 1987 season until 2017 or so, keep it that way. |
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Post by fine09 on Jun 18, 2021 15:07:41 GMT -5
Glasnow diagnosed with partially torn ucl, says mlb changing mid season partly to blame. I love Glasnow , great kid and very talented. But should you really bitch that your injury came about because in season MLB changed the rules and took away your ability to use "sticky stuff " and sunscreen as a substance to help grip a baseball. I'm 58 years old, watched baseball on a regular basis since I was 6 and I was always under the impression you can't use ANY substance other than the rosin bag they put on the mound. IT is impossible to say that you are wrong here because it is flat out against the rules & there is no "grey area" there. But, changing the rules mid season to something that MLB & everyone associated with them have known was being used for a very long time is an extreme thing to do. I think Glasnow simply told the truth & I can't blame him for that. He very well might have hurt himself by them taking away the "stuff", but it's hard to feel sorry for someone who is clearly cheating - even if 1/3 of the other pitchers out there are as well. The thing that will really hurt teams are the ones that signed these expensive pitchers that relied on that to be as good as they were. How would you like Cole's contract if he turns into a guy with a 99 mph fastball but his slider/curve are no longer anything special. That's a gift that could keep on giving for a long time.. |
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Post by batman66 on Jun 18, 2021 15:37:27 GMT -5
I love Glasnow , great kid and very talented. But should you really bitch that your injury came about because in season MLB changed the rules and took away your ability to use "sticky stuff " and sunscreen as a substance to help grip a baseball. I'm 58 years old, watched baseball on a regular basis since I was 6 and I was always under the impression you can't use ANY substance other than the rosin bag they put on the mound. IT is impossible to say that you are wrong here because it is flat out against the rules & there is no "grey area" there. But, changing the rules mid season to something that MLB & everyone associated with them have known was being used for a very long time is an extreme thing to do. I think Glasnow simply told the truth & I can't blame him for that. He very well might have hurt himself by them taking away the "stuff", but it's hard to feel sorry for someone who is clearly cheating - even if 1/3 of the other pitchers out there are as well. The thing that will really hurt teams are the ones that signed these expensive pitchers that relied on that to be as good as they were. How would you like Cole's contract if he turns into a guy with a 99 mph fastball but his slider/curve are no longer anything special. That's a gift that could keep on giving for a long time.. But are they really "changing" the rules, or deciding to enforce them ? I just found it funny that we are in a situation where he is basically admitting to cheating and bitching that baseball is going to enforce a rule mid season. I mean what did he want MLB to say , eh , keep on using foriegn substances to grip a baseball even though they are against the rules for the rest of the season , but it's going to have to stop in 2022 ? |
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Post by thisbuds4u on Jun 18, 2021 15:50:08 GMT -5
The simple solution seems to be, make the ball easier to grip? Why would that be ? The entire issue is MLB trying to get more offense into the game with all these rule changes they have been comtemplating is it not? I mean they've even thought about moving the mound back which to me is ridiculous and a HUGE danger to a pitchers arm who's trained his entire life to throw and get his pitches to break from 60 feet 6 inches. So if the ball is easier to grip then you are right back to the higher spin rates and less offense where we are right now. It's not really about using substances. You have to account for player safety also, both pitchers and batters. If the pitchers complaints are truly about control then having a ball the is easier to grip, then it shouldn't be an issue. While we're seeing higher spin rates, we're also seeing more pitchers who can throw 95+mph, which is ironic that the fastball rate has been declining. |
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Post by batman66 on Jun 18, 2021 16:04:35 GMT -5
Why would that be ? The entire issue is MLB trying to get more offense into the game with all these rule changes they have been comtemplating is it not? I mean they've even thought about moving the mound back which to me is ridiculous and a HUGE danger to a pitchers arm who's trained his entire life to throw and get his pitches to break from 60 feet 6 inches. So if the ball is easier to grip then you are right back to the higher spin rates and less offense where we are right now. It's not really about using substances. You have to account for player safety also, both pitchers and batters. If the pitchers complaints are truly about control then having a ball the is easier to grip, then it shouldn't be an issue. While we're seeing higher spin rates, we're also seeing more pitchers who can throw 95+mph, which is ironic that the fastball rate has been declining. They need to just leave the damn game alone and let it be what is is . I'm not sure what to think about the "slick ball" "hard to grip" excuses . If it's legit or they just want to be able to get these insane spin rates that they DID NOT seem to have before . So to me it's not like they had indredible spin rates, they changed the ball and they decreased , they've been increasing because they use fucking sunscreen and other things they should not be according to the rules. They need to figure something out because shit like this is making the game look bad. |
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Post by happtobehere on Jun 19, 2021 1:37:13 GMT -5
It's funny to how pitchers are basically all admitting to cheating. Is it cheating if it's a rule that's been overlooked and disregarded since always? Or negligence on the part of MLB? Should we also crack down on players wearing chains outside of their jersey? That's also a rule, another one that's overlooked. Reminds me of some laws in my neighborhood- it's illegal to have your garage door open after 3pm. It's a law here. It's also never been enforced once to my knowledge. It's also illegal to honk the horn of your car in my neighborhood. Another law that's never been enforced to my knowledge. If you drive 51 mph in a 50 mph zone, are you a criminal? That's how I've always viewed pitcher substances and pine tar on bats- those are "rules" that are there but the standard is to break those rules because the consequences have been non-existent. If MLB is really going to crack down, players will stop using the substances because the rules are finally being enforced after this long. I wouldn't call any pitcher using spidertac or anything else a cheater, unless you're fine with calling most pitchers cheaters. If rules are strictly enforced and that becomes the norm and a couple pitchers still try to use it, then maybe you could call those guys cheaters, but up until now it's just been a standard part of the game. On a side note, MLB should allow Dillon Maples to use whatever he wants, because that man is dangerous with a baseball. I'd hate to face him at the plate! If you are still on your podium, based on your point of view, no one who used steroids is a cheater either... it was overlooked and was pretty standard practice.
What are the "rules" on pine tar that you constantly see hitters break? The handle of the bat is allowed 18 inches of pine tar per the rule and also per the rule, a bat is not checked unless the umpire or opposing manager complains about excess pine tar. As a contrast, the rule doesn't say that pitchers are allowed to use spider tack unless an umpire or opposing manager complains, it says they cannot use anything other than rosin.
I do side with the pitchers however, you should NOT change the rules mid-season. It's BS. Much like the "random" steroid testing, baseball certainly should be allowed to test balls to see how wide spread ball doctoring is, however it should not enforce any rule changes mid-season. IF a manager request a pitcher be checked, and he is found to have something on his body, doctoring balls, that is one thing, checking balls during the game is new and is utter horse shit. Let players adjust after the season is over.
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Post by happtobehere on Jun 19, 2021 1:41:01 GMT -5
IT is impossible to say that you are wrong here because it is flat out against the rules & there is no "grey area" there. But, changing the rules mid season to something that MLB & everyone associated with them have known was being used for a very long time is an extreme thing to do. I think Glasnow simply told the truth & I can't blame him for that. He very well might have hurt himself by them taking away the "stuff", but it's hard to feel sorry for someone who is clearly cheating - even if 1/3 of the other pitchers out there are as well. The thing that will really hurt teams are the ones that signed these expensive pitchers that relied on that to be as good as they were. How would you like Cole's contract if he turns into a guy with a 99 mph fastball but his slider/curve are no longer anything special. That's a gift that could keep on giving for a long time.. But are they really "changing" the rules, or deciding to enforce them ? I just found it funny that we are in a situation where he is basically admitting to cheating and bitching that baseball is going to enforce a rule mid season. I mean what did he want MLB to say , eh , keep on using foriegn substances to grip a baseball even though they are against the rules for the rest of the season , but it's going to have to stop in 2022 ? The rules are the rules however how pitchers are being check is new and that shouldn't be allowed, at least in my opinion.
The trade deadline is rapidly approaching, how can GM's and scouts properly evaluate pitchers now for mid-season movements? I don't think it's right to change the game mid-season like this.
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Post by thisbuds4u on Jun 19, 2021 5:03:19 GMT -5
You have to account for player safety also, both pitchers and batters. If the pitchers complaints are truly about control then having a ball the is easier to grip, then it shouldn't be an issue. While we're seeing higher spin rates, we're also seeing more pitchers who can throw 95+mph, which is ironic that the fastball rate has been declining. They need to just leave the damn game alone and let it be what is is . I'm not sure what to think about the "slick ball" "hard to grip" excuses . If it's legit or they just want to be able to get these insane spin rates that they DID NOT seem to have before . So to me it's not like they had indredible spin rates, they changed the ball and they decreased , they've been increasing because they use fucking sunscreen and other things they should not be according to the rules. They need to figure something out because shit like this is making the game look bad. For the heck of it, I Goggled how many baseballs were used, on average, in a 9 inning game. That number that first popped up was 120 baseballs. I've already stated I don't agree with doctoring the ball but they need to do something to the ball so a pitcher can grip it. Years ago, certain pitchers would purposely take a new ball and throw the 1st pitch in the dirt to scuff it up. Now that ball is tossed out. |
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Post by happtobehere on Jun 19, 2021 6:13:38 GMT -5
They need to just leave the damn game alone and let it be what is is . I'm not sure what to think about the "slick ball" "hard to grip" excuses . If it's legit or they just want to be able to get these insane spin rates that they DID NOT seem to have before . So to me it's not like they had indredible spin rates, they changed the ball and they decreased , they've been increasing because they use fucking sunscreen and other things they should not be according to the rules. They need to figure something out because shit like this is making the game look bad. For the heck of it, I Goggled how many baseballs were used, on average, in a 9 inning game. That number that first popped up was 120 baseballs. I've already stated I don't agree with doctoring the ball but they need to do something to the ball so a pitcher can grip it. Years ago, certain pitchers would purposely take a new ball and throw the 1st pitch in the dirt to scuff it up. Now that ball is tossed out. My personal opinion, baseball should agree on a substance to help with grip and pitchers simply come out every inning and let the umpire do a brief inspection of his hands to make sure it's "within the rules" and call it a day. Occasionally, now that it's a thing, take a ball and have it inspected, if it's been doctored then suspend the player.
I really don't think most hitters have an issue with guys getting a better grip on a ball, I think the issue comes up that not only are they using things to increase their grip but also doctoring the ball.
I also think the major issue is, like steroids, it's becoming blatantly obvious pitchers are cheating. Guys come into the game with a "dirty" spot on their hat.. That is a big red flag. It blows my mind managers never complained...
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Post by jerm42991 on Jun 19, 2021 8:12:33 GMT -5
For the heck of it, I Goggled how many baseballs were used, on average, in a 9 inning game. That number that first popped up was 120 baseballs. I've already stated I don't agree with doctoring the ball but they need to do something to the ball so a pitcher can grip it. Years ago, certain pitchers would purposely take a new ball and throw the 1st pitch in the dirt to scuff it up. Now that ball is tossed out. My personal opinion, baseball should agree on a substance to help with grip and pitchers simply come out every inning and let the umpire do a brief inspection of his hands to make sure it's "within the rules" and call it a day. Occasionally, now that it's a thing, take a ball and have it inspected, if it's been doctored then suspend the player.
I really don't think most hitters have an issue with guys getting a better grip on a ball, I think the issue comes up that not only are they using things to increase their grip but also doctoring the ball.
I also think the major issue is, like steroids, it's becoming blatantly obvious pitchers are cheating. Guys come into the game with a "dirty" spot on their hat.. That is a big red flag. It blows my mind managers never complained...
They have already come up with a substance that every pitcher can use to help grip. Its called rosin and there is a bag of it on every mound If you can’t grip the ball a certain way, then you throw a different pitch. There is a reason the spit ball was banned. We are seeing guys throw 98+ with 15 inches if movement. That is not natural in anyway |
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