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Post by idontcare on Aug 4, 2020 10:38:21 GMT -5
You do not need to chuck it 95 plus to be a closer. The greatest closer of all time threw low 90's and the second best closer didn't touch 90. Yates even throws mostly low 90's fastballs. Now mental make up may be different but you don't have to blow heat past every batter. IMO, what makes a good closer is the same as what makes a good starting pitcher, being able to limit your free passes and the long ball. Now I'm not suggesting Quintana should be moved to a closer role (although I wouldn't be against it) I'm just playing devils advocate in regards of "stuff" playing out as a closer. If you can limit walks and put the ball on the ground more often than not you'll be in good shape. It is certainly an interesting option to think about. I'm sure Mills and Chatwood will eventually have a shitty start but right now if Q is ready he is on the outside of the rotation looking in and barring injury or one of them totally losing it I dont see him getting back in and he could be more if a difference maker as a closer than middle innings guy. I think the question is wether or not you can roll a five man rotation through the remainder of the season with only a handful of off days. Pitchers are used to a 5 man rotation but pitching generally once per week. Now we are going two weeks straight then a day off. Plus we will have to consider double headers. It didn't effect us this run because we had the rain out and pushed everyone back a day to what would be their normal slot. Most pitchers do better with an extra day rest vs. short rest. It's really something to think about moving forward. We saw Hendricks on short rest not pitch his best already.
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Quintana
Aug 4, 2020 10:48:36 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by batman66 on Aug 4, 2020 10:48:36 GMT -5
It is certainly an interesting option to think about. I'm sure Mills and Chatwood will eventually have a shitty start but right now if Q is ready he is on the outside of the rotation looking in and barring injury or one of them totally losing it I dont see him getting back in and he could be more if a difference maker as a closer than middle innings guy. I think the question is wether or not you can roll a five man rotation through the remainder of the season with only a handful of off days. Pitchers are used to a 5 man rotation but pitching generally once per week. Now we are going two weeks straight then a day off. Plus we will have to consider double headers. It didn't effect us this run because we had the rain out and pushed everyone back a day to what would be their normal slot. Most pitchers do better with an extra day rest vs. short rest. It's really something to think about moving forward. We saw Hendricks on short rest not pitch his best already. Good point ,between that him being a possible late inning guy , I dont think they trade him even though it solves the cap issue.
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Post by fine09 on Aug 4, 2020 13:14:25 GMT -5
The starters have been so good right now it's going to be hard IMO to replace Mills or anyone with Quintana. Mills has 13 innings pitched and ZERO ER's given up. He's been lights out. I hope and think Ross will roll with that until he's not hot anymore. He had no issues going away from Kimbrel. To answer your questions, yes, I think Quintana may move to the pen at first when he gets back. I do not think closer though. Honestly, if Tom is so hell bent on getting under the luxury tax, this may be an opportunity to shed his salary. White Sox and Braves now need a starter and Quintana won't cost much other than salary to the new team. Finding a taker for Quintana should be easy, actually making a deal could prove to be difficult. I mean baseball is already threatening to shut things down so no team is going to give up anything of significant value, especially for a couple week rental (at least I sure as fuck wouldn't). The question is, what is the Cubs primary focus with this "season", is it to win or is it to get under the tax, winning being secondary. If it's to win, having Quintana pitch in a six man/swing (or Mills) could make a lot of sense. Pitching Q out of the pen for long relief makes a lot of sense as well since he hasn't had the chance to really build up arm strength needed to go deep into games. Me personally, I would think the number one priority would be to get below the luxury tax while trying to add a decent pen arm but I'm not making financial decisions moving forward. IF in the Cubs financial state for 2021, they cannot afford to go into luxury tax territory, then I say go ahead and pay the penalty and try to win in this abbreviated 60 game season. If they CAN go into luxury tax territory for 2021 then I say get below now, take advantage of what should be a fairly weak spending market and try to get a guy or two extended. The one thing I do know for certain is that I do not pull Mills out of the rotation (I also split Mills and Hendricks up, think they are too similar to pitch back to back) because I want to see him make several starts so I have the confidence in slotting him into the rotation in 2021. It would be a HUGE leg up if we could slot a guy making league minimum or near it into the rotation while we have Hendricks who is "under paid" also in the rotation. The Cubs are in a bad spot for 2021 if they cannot spend because not only are they already pushing the luxury tax with several rotation slots needing to be filled, the odds of them getting premium value on a guy like Bryant is slim to none. The would have to trade a guy like Contreras or Rizzo who has surplus value to get anything back in trade and their partners will be limited since many teams will have less funds available. I don't think baseball has really threatened to shut things down as much as Manfred just told Clark that the players need to seriously get there shit together regarding following protocols or everything is going to fall apart real quick. I believe the Cubs main focus is always going to be to win but at the same time if going for it hard this year means you can't spend squat on extensions & new players next year then you go for it but be flexible enough to do both.. They MUST try hard to reset the tax this year so that they can go balls out with extensions & some signings for next year & into the future or we are all screwed. I agree 100% on splitting Kyle & Alec up for your reason given. After the extension that Betts received I believe it shows us that the top tier talent will as always get paid & guys like KB, Javy & Willy definitely slot into that top tier level although not to the level that Mookie just hit. I'm still amazed that he got that long/large of an extension BUT, the Dodgers know that they are close to a World Series so I can't really blame them.
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Post by thisbuds4u on Aug 4, 2020 13:35:36 GMT -5
Yeah, I think his time is now. Stick with Mills. He is the type they have let go before that end up solid rotation pieces for other teams and right now I am having a brain cramp and cant come up with names but I think you guys know what and who I'm talking about. Was it Greg Maddux?
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Post by idontcare on Aug 4, 2020 15:53:27 GMT -5
Finding a taker for Quintana should be easy, actually making a deal could prove to be difficult. I mean baseball is already threatening to shut things down so no team is going to give up anything of significant value, especially for a couple week rental (at least I sure as fuck wouldn't). The question is, what is the Cubs primary focus with this "season", is it to win or is it to get under the tax, winning being secondary. If it's to win, having Quintana pitch in a six man/swing (or Mills) could make a lot of sense. Pitching Q out of the pen for long relief makes a lot of sense as well since he hasn't had the chance to really build up arm strength needed to go deep into games. Me personally, I would think the number one priority would be to get below the luxury tax while trying to add a decent pen arm but I'm not making financial decisions moving forward. IF in the Cubs financial state for 2021, they cannot afford to go into luxury tax territory, then I say go ahead and pay the penalty and try to win in this abbreviated 60 game season. If they CAN go into luxury tax territory for 2021 then I say get below now, take advantage of what should be a fairly weak spending market and try to get a guy or two extended. The one thing I do know for certain is that I do not pull Mills out of the rotation (I also split Mills and Hendricks up, think they are too similar to pitch back to back) because I want to see him make several starts so I have the confidence in slotting him into the rotation in 2021. It would be a HUGE leg up if we could slot a guy making league minimum or near it into the rotation while we have Hendricks who is "under paid" also in the rotation. The Cubs are in a bad spot for 2021 if they cannot spend because not only are they already pushing the luxury tax with several rotation slots needing to be filled, the odds of them getting premium value on a guy like Bryant is slim to none. The would have to trade a guy like Contreras or Rizzo who has surplus value to get anything back in trade and their partners will be limited since many teams will have less funds available. I don't think baseball has really threatened to shut things down as much as Manfred just told Clark that the players need to seriously get there shit together regarding following protocols or everything is going to fall apart real quick. I believe the Cubs main focus is always going to be to win but at the same time if going for it hard this year means you can't spend squat on extensions & new players next year then you go for it but be flexible enough to do both.. They MUST try hard to reset the tax this year so that they can go balls out with extensions & some signings for next year & into the future or we are all screwed. I agree 100% on splitting Kyle & Alec up for your reason given. After the extension that Betts received I believe it shows us that the top tier talent will as always get paid & guys like KB, Javy & Willy definitely slot into that top tier level although not to the level that Mookie just hit. I'm still amazed that he got that long/large of an extension BUT, the Dodgers know that they are close to a World Series so I can't really blame them. I read a report, granted it was a "report" with writer spin, that Manfred threatened to shut down the season "as early as Monday" which referred to Monday August second. It's hard to say what is really "news"/accurate information in this day because everything turns into an opinion piece. I don't know how candid the conversations are between Epstein and Tom Ricketts about the spending future but if they are saying that the Cubs will not be able to afford to go into luxury tax territory next season then they might as well as play par or add payroll this season and reset it next season. If they cannot/will not spend above the tax line regardless. Otherwise, I, as a GM, would be really hard pressed not to at least consider trading Quintana for little more than salary relief. It's interesting to me because we really do not know a whole lot. I personally think suspending luxury tax penalties or resetting the luxury tax penalties for all teams after this season should be a serious thought so the "big spenders" can help influx the league with cash. Otherwise it could be a really stagnant free agent market which is going to be bad for CBA negotiations moving forward. My opinion is that moving forward to 2021 free agency, baseball should move every team back to first level of luxury tax, so teams like the Yankees, Cubs and Dodgers would not have the escalating, multiple offender penalty rather than if they are over in 2021 they just get the first time offender penalty.
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Quintana
Aug 4, 2020 16:57:47 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by fine09 on Aug 4, 2020 16:57:47 GMT -5
I don't think baseball has really threatened to shut things down as much as Manfred just told Clark that the players need to seriously get there shit together regarding following protocols or everything is going to fall apart real quick. I believe the Cubs main focus is always going to be to win but at the same time if going for it hard this year means you can't spend squat on extensions & new players next year then you go for it but be flexible enough to do both.. They MUST try hard to reset the tax this year so that they can go balls out with extensions & some signings for next year & into the future or we are all screwed. I agree 100% on splitting Kyle & Alec up for your reason given. After the extension that Betts received I believe it shows us that the top tier talent will as always get paid & guys like KB, Javy & Willy definitely slot into that top tier level although not to the level that Mookie just hit. I'm still amazed that he got that long/large of an extension BUT, the Dodgers know that they are close to a World Series so I can't really blame them. I read a report, granted it was a "report" with writer spin, that Manfred threatened to shut down the season "as early as Monday" which referred to Monday August second. It's hard to say what is really "news"/accurate information in this day because everything turns into an opinion piece. I don't know how candid the conversations are between Epstein and Tom Ricketts about the spending future but if they are saying that the Cubs will not be able to afford to go into luxury tax territory next season then they might as well as play par or add payroll this season and reset it next season. If they cannot/will not spend above the tax line regardless. Otherwise, I, as a GM, would be really hard pressed not to at least consider trading Quintana for little more than salary relief. It's interesting to me because we really do not know a whole lot. I personally think suspending luxury tax penalties or resetting the luxury tax penalties for all teams after this season should be a serious thought so the "big spenders" can help influx the league with cash. Otherwise it could be a really stagnant free agent market which is going to be bad for CBA negotiations moving forward. My opinion is that moving forward to 2021 free agency, baseball should move every team back to first level of luxury tax, so teams like the Yankees, Cubs and Dodgers would not have the escalating, multiple offender penalty rather than if they are over in 2021 they just get the first time offender penalty. I assumed you were talking about when Manfred told Clark last week. Regarding the luxury tax, as it stands if we can get under the 1st tier this year then everything resets moving forward which is what we need to extend a couple guys & even sign a couple decent free agents. Now if they would just waive the luxury tax situation for all teams then we’re all set - but I can think of 23 or so teams that would scream if they even suggested doing so. But you are exactly right in that it would flood the player market with billions moving forward.
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Quintana
Aug 4, 2020 17:50:03 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by chubbs63 on Aug 4, 2020 17:50:03 GMT -5
Love the idea of using him in the 7th 8th inninning Then trying at closer. I think his stuff is tough to hit first time through a order
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Quintana
Aug 4, 2020 22:21:49 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by fine09 on Aug 4, 2020 22:21:49 GMT -5
Love the idea of using him in the 7th 8th inninning Then trying at closer. I think his stuff is tough to hit first time through a order We may have to find out now whether we like it or not..
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Quintana
Aug 5, 2020 10:04:39 GMT -5
via mobile
Mike likes this
Post by batman66 on Aug 5, 2020 10:04:39 GMT -5
With Ryan's velo seeming to be way down they may need a go to lefty and Q may end up being that guy whether he likes it or not.
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Post by ddevonb on Aug 5, 2020 10:08:37 GMT -5
It is certainly an interesting option to think about. I'm sure Mills and Chatwood will eventually have a shitty start but right now if Q is ready he is on the outside of the rotation looking in and barring injury or one of them totally losing it I dont see him getting back in and he could be more if a difference maker as a closer than middle innings guy. I think the question is wether or not you can roll a five man rotation through the remainder of the season with only a handful of off days. Pitchers are used to a 5 man rotation but pitching generally once per week. Now we are going two weeks straight then a day off. Plus we will have to consider double headers. It didn't effect us this run because we had the rain out and pushed everyone back a day to what would be their normal slot. Most pitchers do better with an extra day rest vs. short rest. It's really something to think about moving forward. We saw Hendricks on short rest not pitch his best already. Playing every day with a 5 man rotation isn't pitching on short rest. It's normal rest. For any DH they can use a spot starter, either from the roster or bring someone up. Q will have to be in the bullpen for some time and won't likely build up enough innings to spot start for some time. If he wants to build up his innings with sim games then he can be available much in the bullpen. Better to just put him in the bullpen and see where he can best help the team there.
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Post by idontcare on Aug 5, 2020 10:52:14 GMT -5
I think the question is wether or not you can roll a five man rotation through the remainder of the season with only a handful of off days. Pitchers are used to a 5 man rotation but pitching generally once per week. Now we are going two weeks straight then a day off. Plus we will have to consider double headers. It didn't effect us this run because we had the rain out and pushed everyone back a day to what would be their normal slot. Most pitchers do better with an extra day rest vs. short rest. It's really something to think about moving forward. We saw Hendricks on short rest not pitch his best already. Playing every day with a 5 man rotation isn't pitching on short rest. It's normal rest. For any DH they can use a spot starter, either from the roster or bring someone up. Q will have to be in the bullpen for some time and won't likely build up enough innings to spot start for some time. If he wants to build up his innings with sim games then he can be available much in the bullpen. Better to just put him in the bullpen and see where he can best help the team there. Allow me to change "short rest" to less rest than normal since the majority of the pitchers in the league pitch half their games on 5-6 full days rest and now they pitch about 75% or more of their games on 4 days rest. Who exactly can the Cubs call up from their 60 man to make a spot start? Alzolay? Cotton? How was Monty able to bounce from the bullpen to the rotation so often if pitching out of the bullpen wouldn't build up enough arm strength to make a spot start? Crazy, must have been some type of freak.
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Post by fine09 on Aug 5, 2020 12:06:40 GMT -5
Playing every day with a 5 man rotation isn't pitching on short rest. It's normal rest. For any DH they can use a spot starter, either from the roster or bring someone up. Q will have to be in the bullpen for some time and won't likely build up enough innings to spot start for some time. If he wants to build up his innings with sim games then he can be available much in the bullpen. Better to just put him in the bullpen and see where he can best help the team there. Allow me to change "short rest" to less rest than normal since the majority of the pitchers in the league pitch half their games on 5-6 full days rest and now they pitch about 75% or more of their games on 4 days rest. Who exactly can the Cubs call up from their 60 man to make a spot start? Alzolay? Cotton? How was Monty able to bounce from the bullpen to the rotation so often if pitching out of the bullpen wouldn't build up enough arm strength to make a spot start? Crazy, must have been some type of freak. If I remember correctly when he did start it was normally 5 innings, maybe a tad less or more but yes, he was young and very durable. I'll remember him fondly for that last out in 2016 standing there looking for someone to hug..
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Post by Reverency on Aug 5, 2020 12:14:50 GMT -5
He is the type they have let go before that end up solid rotation pieces for other teams and right now I am having a brain cramp and cant come up with names but I think you guys know what and who I'm talking about. Was it Greg Maddux? Rich Hill?
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Post by ddevonb on Aug 5, 2020 17:37:30 GMT -5
Playing every day with a 5 man rotation isn't pitching on short rest. It's normal rest. For any DH they can use a spot starter, either from the roster or bring someone up. Q will have to be in the bullpen for some time and won't likely build up enough innings to spot start for some time. If he wants to build up his innings with sim games then he can be available much in the bullpen. Better to just put him in the bullpen and see where he can best help the team there. Allow me to change "short rest" to less rest than normal since the majority of the pitchers in the league pitch half their games on 5-6 full days rest and now they pitch about 75% or more of their games on 4 days rest. Who exactly can the Cubs call up from their 60 man to make a spot start? Alzolay? Cotton? How was Monty able to bounce from the bullpen to the rotation so often if pitching out of the bullpen wouldn't build up enough arm strength to make a spot start? Crazy, must have been some type of freak. I will allow you to change even more. They don't get 5 days rest anywhere near half the time and rarely get 6. Some teams still skip their 5th man when his turn falls on a day off.
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Post by Mike on Aug 5, 2020 17:53:41 GMT -5
Last year, Maddon kept Quintana out on the mound after a small opponent lead turned into a blow out. Seemingly out of spite to not use the bullpen. He averaged 91.5mph on his 4-seam and sinker, definitely an upgrade to Ryan's lost velocity. I am all for Quintana going out there in the pen until Ryan gets his numbers back to where they were... Now, if Quintana can't average 88mph on a sinker out of the gate, then we're in trouble.
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Post by tehmpus on Aug 5, 2020 20:27:25 GMT -5
Last year, Maddon kept Quintana out on the mound after a small opponent lead turned into a blow out. Seemingly out of spite to not use the bullpen. He averaged 91.5mph on his 4-seam and sinker, definitely an upgrade to Ryan's lost velocity. I am all for Quintana going out there in the pen until Ryan gets his numbers back to where they were... Now, if Quintana can't average 88mph on a sinker out of the gate, then we're in trouble. Clearly some of the players prepared and got themselves physically ready for this short season. Others did not.
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Post by idontcare on Aug 6, 2020 9:03:06 GMT -5
Allow me to change "short rest" to less rest than normal since the majority of the pitchers in the league pitch half their games on 5-6 full days rest and now they pitch about 75% or more of their games on 4 days rest. Who exactly can the Cubs call up from their 60 man to make a spot start? Alzolay? Cotton? How was Monty able to bounce from the bullpen to the rotation so often if pitching out of the bullpen wouldn't build up enough arm strength to make a spot start? Crazy, must have been some type of freak. I will allow you to change even more. They don't get 5 days rest anywhere near half the time and rarely get 6. Some teams still skip their 5th man when his turn falls on a day off. Jon Lester 4 days rest 14 games, 5 days rest 12 games, 6 days rest 5 games Kyle Hendricks 4 days- 15 games, 5 days - 9 6 days 6 Yu Darvish 4 days 16, 5 days 8, 6 days 7 Q- 4 days 15, 5 days 11, 6 games 5 Now I'm pretty good at basic math... are you? I'll allow you to change even more.... It's alright 5 out of 4 people struggle with math and statistics are hard.
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Quintana
Aug 6, 2020 11:28:50 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by batman66 on Aug 6, 2020 11:28:50 GMT -5
He is the type they have let go before that end up solid rotation pieces for other teams and right now I am having a brain cramp and cant come up with names but I think you guys know what and who I'm talking about. Was it Greg Maddux? No
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Post by tehmpus on Aug 6, 2020 17:47:32 GMT -5
I will allow you to change even more. They don't get 5 days rest anywhere near half the time and rarely get 6. Some teams still skip their 5th man when his turn falls on a day off. Jon Lester 4 days rest 14 games, 5 days rest 12 games, 6 days rest 5 games Kyle Hendricks 4 days- 15 games, 5 days - 9 6 days 6 Yu Darvish 4 days 16, 5 days 8, 6 days 7 Q- 4 days 15, 5 days 11, 6 games 5 Now I'm pretty good at basic math... are you? I'll allow you to change even more.... It's alright 5 out of 4 people struggle with math and statistics are hard. 5 out of 4 people struggle? Hmmm, yeah your math is the greatest. Heh
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Post by idontcare on Aug 7, 2020 10:03:01 GMT -5
Jon Lester 4 days rest 14 games, 5 days rest 12 games, 6 days rest 5 games Kyle Hendricks 4 days- 15 games, 5 days - 9 6 days 6 Yu Darvish 4 days 16, 5 days 8, 6 days 7 Q- 4 days 15, 5 days 11, 6 games 5 Now I'm pretty good at basic math... are you? I'll allow you to change even more.... It's alright 5 out of 4 people struggle with math and statistics are hard. 5 out of 4 people struggle? Hmmm, yeah your math is the greatest. Heh It was joke....
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