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Quintana
Aug 4, 2020 8:25:12 GMT -5
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Post by chubbs63 on Aug 4, 2020 8:25:12 GMT -5
Any chance he come back and pitches out of the bullpen maybe the closer?
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 4, 2020 8:42:55 GMT -5
The starters have been so good right now it's going to be hard IMO to replace Mills or anyone with Quintana. Mills has 13 innings pitched and ZERO ER's given up. He's been lights out. I hope and think Ross will roll with that until he's not hot anymore. He had no issues going away from Kimbrel.
To answer your questions, yes, I think Quintana may move to the pen at first when he gets back. I do not think closer though. Honestly, if Tom is so hell bent on getting under the luxury tax, this may be an opportunity to shed his salary. White Sox and Braves now need a starter and Quintana won't cost much other than salary to the new team.
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Post by GoCubsGo4ever on Aug 4, 2020 8:52:18 GMT -5
Any chance he come back and pitches out of the bullpen maybe the closer? I would use him as the long man to start with and see how things go with the rotation and pen. The starters are doing well and there is no need to change. If Mills can consistently deliver, you figure he will be part of the mid- to long-term plan as well so that will also carry some critical consideration. I also wouldn't rule out a trade involving Q, but the return will be minimal given that he has not pitched much and this is a 60 game season.
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Post by rvn11 on Aug 4, 2020 8:56:57 GMT -5
I don't think Q has the stuff to be a bullpen arm to be honest. A low 90s fastball with a slow curve from a very vanilla delivery doesn't really shut people down. Usually it's the lefties that have a funky look or throw gas that are what you look for out of the pen. Maybe he could be a 7th or 8th inning guy, or even multiple inning guy, but I don't see him as a closer. He just doesn't seem to have that kind of mentality and temperament. If it were me, I probably play the wait and see game with Mills until he's ready. Mills has been phenomenal so far, but sometimes I think he's due to get shelled. Additionally I wonder if having he and Hendricks back to back hurts Kyle in having opponents face 2 softer tossing guys in a row.
I wouldn't be against trading him either, just not sure I want to close that door so early in case Mills struggles or another starter gets injured. If you can maybe even get a decent return from Atlanta I'd consider it, they have to be looking right now having 2 rotation pieces gone from where they started the season and where they hope to be at the end. Then again, it could be risky sending him to a potential playoff opponent.
Edit: didn't realize nobody took a swing on Mike Foltynewicz, so he's back with the team. Struggles aside, the Braves may have lucked out big time there.
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Post by fine09 on Aug 4, 2020 8:58:41 GMT -5
Any chance he come back and pitches out of the bullpen maybe the closer? I've said for a couple of years now that I believe he would be outstanding out of the BP & potentially closer but I'm wrong quite often so we have that as well. I just think he could hit 95-97 MPH with his FB & still has that nasty curve. Then again Steve is right that his value would be high to one of these teams that lost a starter so they could trade him for a good prospect or BP arm & get the Cubs under the first salary cap threshold thus freeing them up for big spending next year when they will really need it. Very nice problem to have.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 4, 2020 9:02:25 GMT -5
I don't think Q has the stuff to be a bullpen arm to be honest. A low 90s fastball with a slow curve from a very vanilla delivery doesn't really shut people down. Usually it's the lefties that have a funky look or throw gas that are what you look for out of the pen. Maybe he could be a 7th or 8th inning guy, or even multiple inning guy, but I don't see him as a closer. He just doesn't seem to have that kind of mentality and temperament. If it were me, I probably play the wait and see game with Mills until he's ready. Mills has been phenomenal so far, but sometimes I think he's due to get shelled. Additionally I wonder if having he and Hendricks back to back hurts Kyle in having opponents face 2 softer tossing guys in a row. The thing though is Q is a free agent at the end of the year. IMO, I think you keep rolling with Mills to see if you have a starter for 2021 to replace Quintana and/maybe Lester. Lester making it hard for the Cubs to no pick up his option though. Ross may have found himself a starter who's locked up through 2025 (Mills), I hope so. Even if Mills gets knocked around his next start, stick with him for one more and wait-see. Prioritize Mills over Q right now IMO
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Quintana
Aug 4, 2020 9:08:28 GMT -5
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Post by batman66 on Aug 4, 2020 9:08:28 GMT -5
Any chance he come back and pitches out of the bullpen maybe the closer? I don't know about closer , but I can not see Ross dropping Chatwood or Mills from the rotation if they keep pitching anywhere close to what they have been so there is no room in the rotation for Q so the only option is the pen or a trade but I would imagine they might prefer depth over trade unless they can pull off a deal for him that returns a solid controllable pen arm . I know dealing him will help with cap issues but how often do you see a contender trade away an extra starter at this time. Braves just lost Soroka for the season after already losing Hamels so I would give them a call.
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Post by rvn11 on Aug 4, 2020 9:11:46 GMT -5
I don't think Q has the stuff to be a bullpen arm to be honest. A low 90s fastball with a slow curve from a very vanilla delivery doesn't really shut people down. Usually it's the lefties that have a funky look or throw gas that are what you look for out of the pen. Maybe he could be a 7th or 8th inning guy, or even multiple inning guy, but I don't see him as a closer. He just doesn't seem to have that kind of mentality and temperament. If it were me, I probably play the wait and see game with Mills until he's ready. Mills has been phenomenal so far, but sometimes I think he's due to get shelled. Additionally I wonder if having he and Hendricks back to back hurts Kyle in having opponents face 2 softer tossing guys in a row. The thing though is Q is a free agent at the end of the year. IMO, I think you keep rolling with Mills to see if you have a starter for 2021 to replace Quintana and/maybe Lester. Lester making it hard for the Cubs to no pick up his option though. Ross may have found himself a starter who's locked up through 2025 (Mills), I hope so. Even if Mills gets knocked around his next start, stick with him for one more and wait-see. Prioritize Mills over Q right now IMO I agree Q is gone after this season, I'm just not completely sold on Mills yet, not after just 2 starts. Having seen what we have the past few seasons, the good and the bad, I'm not willing to make the decision yet that he's broken through. And to be honest, the same could be said of Chatwood as well. And with this team looking early on like they have something this year, at least enough to make a playoff run perhaps, I'm not sure I'm willing to move Q yet as he could prove valuable in next 2 months. But solely for the financial implications going forward I wouldn't be against it.
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Quintana
Aug 4, 2020 9:12:09 GMT -5
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Post by batman66 on Aug 4, 2020 9:12:09 GMT -5
I don't think Q has the stuff to be a bullpen arm to be honest. A low 90s fastball with a slow curve from a very vanilla delivery doesn't really shut people down. Usually it's the lefties that have a funky look or throw gas that are what you look for out of the pen. Maybe he could be a 7th or 8th inning guy, or even multiple inning guy, but I don't see him as a closer. He just doesn't seem to have that kind of mentality and temperament. If it were me, I probably play the wait and see game with Mills until he's ready. Mills has been phenomenal so far, but sometimes I think he's due to get shelled. Additionally I wonder if having he and Hendricks back to back hurts Kyle in having opponents face 2 softer tossing guys in a row. The thing though is Q is a free agent at the end of the year. IMO, I think you keep rolling with Mills to see if you have a starter for 2021 to replace Quintana and/maybe Lester. Lester making it hard for the Cubs to no pick up his option though. Ross may have found himself a starter who's locked up through 2025 (Mills), I hope so. Even if Mills gets knocked around his next start, stick with him for one more and wait-see. Prioritize Mills over Q right now IMO I dont feel like looking up game logs. but I dont recall many real bad starts Mills has made for the Cubs. I think he is a legit rotation piece going forward and 100% agree with you to ride him out and see for sure what they have because he could be a solid and cheap long term piece where as Q he is not.
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Quintana
Aug 4, 2020 9:16:54 GMT -5
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Post by batman66 on Aug 4, 2020 9:16:54 GMT -5
Mills in 18 games as a Cub , 8 of them starts 2.82 ERA
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Post by idontcare on Aug 4, 2020 9:18:47 GMT -5
The starters have been so good right now it's going to be hard IMO to replace Mills or anyone with Quintana. Mills has 13 innings pitched and ZERO ER's given up. He's been lights out. I hope and think Ross will roll with that until he's not hot anymore. He had no issues going away from Kimbrel. To answer your questions, yes, I think Quintana may move to the pen at first when he gets back. I do not think closer though. Honestly, if Tom is so hell bent on getting under the luxury tax, this may be an opportunity to shed his salary. White Sox and Braves now need a starter and Quintana won't cost much other than salary to the new team. Finding a taker for Quintana should be easy, actually making a deal could prove to be difficult. I mean baseball is already threatening to shut things down so no team is going to give up anything of significant value, especially for a couple week rental (at least I sure as fuck wouldn't). The question is, what is the Cubs primary focus with this "season", is it to win or is it to get under the tax, winning being secondary. If it's to win, having Quintana pitch in a six man/swing (or Mills) could make a lot of sense. Pitching Q out of the pen for long relief makes a lot of sense as well since he hasn't had the chance to really build up arm strength needed to go deep into games. Me personally, I would think the number one priority would be to get below the luxury tax while trying to add a decent pen arm but I'm not making financial decisions moving forward. IF in the Cubs financial state for 2021, they cannot afford to go into luxury tax territory, then I say go ahead and pay the penalty and try to win in this abbreviated 60 game season. If they CAN go into luxury tax territory for 2021 then I say get below now, take advantage of what should be a fairly weak spending market and try to get a guy or two extended. The one thing I do know for certain is that I do not pull Mills out of the rotation (I also split Mills and Hendricks up, think they are too similar to pitch back to back) because I want to see him make several starts so I have the confidence in slotting him into the rotation in 2021. It would be a HUGE leg up if we could slot a guy making league minimum or near it into the rotation while we have Hendricks who is "under paid" also in the rotation. The Cubs are in a bad spot for 2021 if they cannot spend because not only are they already pushing the luxury tax with several rotation slots needing to be filled, the odds of them getting premium value on a guy like Bryant is slim to none. The would have to trade a guy like Contreras or Rizzo who has surplus value to get anything back in trade and their partners will be limited since many teams will have less funds available.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Aug 4, 2020 9:19:25 GMT -5
Mills in 18 games as a Cub , 8 of them starts 2.82 ERA Yeah, I think his time is now. Stick with Mills.
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Quintana
Aug 4, 2020 9:30:47 GMT -5
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Post by batman66 on Aug 4, 2020 9:30:47 GMT -5
Mills in 18 games as a Cub , 8 of them starts 2.82 ERA Yeah, I think his time is now. Stick with Mills. He is the type they have let go before that end up solid rotation pieces for other teams and right now I am having a brain cramp and cant come up with names but I think you guys know what and who I'm talking about.
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Post by lu13cubbie on Aug 4, 2020 9:46:03 GMT -5
No trades, win the covid world series
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Post by rvn11 on Aug 4, 2020 9:46:49 GMT -5
Yeah, I think his time is now. Stick with Mills. He is the type they have let go before that end up solid rotation pieces for other teams and right now I am having a brain cramp and cant come up with names but I think you guys know what and who I'm talking about. Probably guys like Straily, Smyly or even a Mike Montgomery. By no means am I saying trade Mills, in case that's how it came across; at his price points and with the control they have on him it would be foolish to. I just don't know that I'm willing to hand him the 5th starter spot and cut Q loose quite yet because of him. He's been good thus far, but he's had only 18 appearances over 2+ seasons right now. Pitchers tend to fly under the radar a bit when they're long relievers or spot starters, when the league starts seeing him more or focusing on him things could change, especially for guys that don't throw very hard or have wicked movement. The guys like Hendricks tend to be exceptions, but if they could have 2 guys like that I'd be very happy.
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Quintana
Aug 4, 2020 9:54:44 GMT -5
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Post by batman66 on Aug 4, 2020 9:54:44 GMT -5
He is the type they have let go before that end up solid rotation pieces for other teams and right now I am having a brain cramp and cant come up with names but I think you guys know what and who I'm talking about. Probably guys like Straily, Smyly or even a Mike Montgomery. By no means am I saying trade Mills, in case that's how it came across; at his price points and with the control they have on him it would be foolish to. I just don't know that I'm willing to hand him the 5th starter spot and cut Q loose quite yet because of him. He's been good thus far, but he's had only 18 appearances over 2+ seasons right now. Pitchers tend to fly under the radar a bit when they're long relievers or spot starters, when the league starts seeing him more or focusing on him things could change, especially for guys that don't throw very hard or have wicked movement. The guys like Hendricks tend to be exceptions, but if they could have 2 guys like that I'd be very happy. No I knew what you meant. I was talking about them giving up too early on guys that were not exactly scout favourites , Straily was one I was thinking of , and I finally remembered some like Cahill, Godley and there are still others I cant think of that went on to have some solid years so I am happy they have held on to Mills
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Post by idontcare on Aug 4, 2020 10:01:16 GMT -5
He is the type they have let go before that end up solid rotation pieces for other teams and right now I am having a brain cramp and cant come up with names but I think you guys know what and who I'm talking about. Probably guys like Straily, Smyly or even a Mike Montgomery. By no means am I saying trade Mills, in case that's how it came across; at his price points and with the control they have on him it would be foolish to. I just don't know that I'm willing to hand him the 5th starter spot and cut Q loose quite yet because of him. He's been good thus far, but he's had only 18 appearances over 2+ seasons right now. Pitchers tend to fly under the radar a bit when they're long relievers or spot starters, when the league starts seeing him more or focusing on him things could change, especially for guys that don't throw very hard or have wicked movement. The guys like Hendricks tend to be exceptions, but if they could have 2 guys like that I'd be very happy. They are exceptions now but that is simply because the league has fell in love with the hard shit. Hendricks and hopefully Mills are throw backs to the old school Brave rotations where they do not "throw through" their breaks. Meaning that they have a sweet spot in the upper 80's low 90's that allow a good late break on their fastball which induce soft contact. Both Mills and Hendricks have a late break/tail on their fastball ball, a deceiving change up and a solid 10/6 which are all very good weapons for the current hitting philosophies. The only concern IMO is them keeping the ball in the park as Hendricks loves to pair his fastball up in the zone because his change and curves all start up and drop out of the zone. If a guy is sitting high fastball then it's trouble. As a pitcher in todays game however, you can live with giving up a couple solo home runs as long as you are not giving them up along with free passes. It's important for the Cubs to develop Mills into a rotation piece even if it's a fifth starter who can pitch to a low 4 ERA who pitches better more often than not. What hurt the Cubs the past couple years wasn't the Heyward contract (didn't help) it was spending 20 plus million on Lester and 20 plus million on Darvish and nearly 20 million on Hamels and then 10 million on Q and 13 million on Chatwood. The Cubs had over 90 million tied up in "starting" pitching, a term used loosely because Chatwood was a used more as a reliever last season.
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Post by tehmpus on Aug 4, 2020 10:06:55 GMT -5
I don't think Q has the stuff to be a bullpen arm to be honest. A low 90s fastball with a slow curve from a very vanilla delivery doesn't really shut people down. Usually it's the lefties that have a funky look or throw gas that are what you look for out of the pen. Maybe he could be a 7th or 8th inning guy, or even multiple inning guy, but I don't see him as a closer. He just doesn't seem to have that kind of mentality and temperament. If it were me, I probably play the wait and see game with Mills until he's ready. Mills has been phenomenal so far, but sometimes I think he's due to get shelled. Additionally I wonder if having he and Hendricks back to back hurts Kyle in having opponents face 2 softer tossing guys in a row. The thing though is Q is a free agent at the end of the year. IMO, I think you keep rolling with Mills to see if you have a starter for 2021 to replace Quintana and/maybe Lester. Lester making it hard for the Cubs to no pick up his option though. Ross may have found himself a starter who's locked up through 2025 (Mills), I hope so. Even if Mills gets knocked around his next start, stick with him for one more and wait-see. Prioritize Mills over Q right now IMO No harm at all in dangling Quintana out there as a trade chip, and see who comes calling with what offer. If Q had simply opted out prior to the season due to COVID concerns, he could have maintained his one year deal with the Cubs for 2021 (full amount), and the Cubs would have dipped under the luxury tax for this year. Being injured in a very short season isn't going to help his free agent chances.
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Post by idontcare on Aug 4, 2020 10:21:14 GMT -5
I don't think Q has the stuff to be a bullpen arm to be honest. A low 90s fastball with a slow curve from a very vanilla delivery doesn't really shut people down. Usually it's the lefties that have a funky look or throw gas that are what you look for out of the pen. Maybe he could be a 7th or 8th inning guy, or even multiple inning guy, but I don't see him as a closer. He just doesn't seem to have that kind of mentality and temperament. If it were me, I probably play the wait and see game with Mills until he's ready. Mills has been phenomenal so far, but sometimes I think he's due to get shelled. Additionally I wonder if having he and Hendricks back to back hurts Kyle in having opponents face 2 softer tossing guys in a row.
I wouldn't be against trading him either, just not sure I want to close that door so early in case Mills struggles or another starter gets injured. If you can maybe even get a decent return from Atlanta I'd consider it, they have to be looking right now having 2 rotation pieces gone from where they started the season and where they hope to be at the end. Then again, it could be risky sending him to a potential playoff opponent.
Edit: didn't realize nobody took a swing on Mike Foltynewicz, so he's back with the team. Struggles aside, the Braves may have lucked out big time there.
You do not need to chuck it 95 plus to be a closer. The greatest closer of all time threw low 90's and the second best closer didn't touch 90. Yates even throws mostly low 90's fastballs. Now mental make up may be different but you don't have to blow heat past every batter. IMO, what makes a good closer is the same as what makes a good starting pitcher, being able to limit your free passes and the long ball. Now I'm not suggesting Quintana should be moved to a closer role (although I wouldn't be against it) I'm just playing devils advocate in regards of "stuff" playing out as a closer. If you can limit walks and put the ball on the ground more often than not you'll be in good shape.
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Quintana
Aug 4, 2020 10:28:58 GMT -5
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Post by batman66 on Aug 4, 2020 10:28:58 GMT -5
I don't think Q has the stuff to be a bullpen arm to be honest. A low 90s fastball with a slow curve from a very vanilla delivery doesn't really shut people down. Usually it's the lefties that have a funky look or throw gas that are what you look for out of the pen. Maybe he could be a 7th or 8th inning guy, or even multiple inning guy, but I don't see him as a closer. He just doesn't seem to have that kind of mentality and temperament. If it were me, I probably play the wait and see game with Mills until he's ready. Mills has been phenomenal so far, but sometimes I think he's due to get shelled. Additionally I wonder if having he and Hendricks back to back hurts Kyle in having opponents face 2 softer tossing guys in a row.
I wouldn't be against trading him either, just not sure I want to close that door so early in case Mills struggles or another starter gets injured. If you can maybe even get a decent return from Atlanta I'd consider it, they have to be looking right now having 2 rotation pieces gone from where they started the season and where they hope to be at the end. Then again, it could be risky sending him to a potential playoff opponent.
Edit: didn't realize nobody took a swing on Mike Foltynewicz, so he's back with the team. Struggles aside, the Braves may have lucked out big time there.
You do not need to chuck it 95 plus to be a closer. The greatest closer of all time threw low 90's and the second best closer didn't touch 90. Yates even throws mostly low 90's fastballs. Now mental make up may be different but you don't have to blow heat past every batter. IMO, what makes a good closer is the same as what makes a good starting pitcher, being able to limit your free passes and the long ball. Now I'm not suggesting Quintana should be moved to a closer role (although I wouldn't be against it) I'm just playing devils advocate in regards of "stuff" playing out as a closer. If you can limit walks and put the ball on the ground more often than not you'll be in good shape. It is certainly an interesting option to think about. I'm sure Mills and Chatwood will eventually have a shitty start but right now if Q is ready he is on the outside of the rotation looking in and barring injury or one of them totally losing it I dont see him getting back in and he could be more if a difference maker as a closer than middle innings guy.
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