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Post by skokiejoe on Jul 11, 2020 9:17:51 GMT -5
If Rizzo still continues to have back problems even after losing weight, do the Cubs still exercise the 16.5M option for 2021?
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Post by jpepitone on Jul 11, 2020 9:35:05 GMT -5
I would. Even with his back issues, he still averages over 150 games played per year.
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Post by fine09 on Jul 11, 2020 10:51:45 GMT -5
If Rizzo still continues to have back problems even after losing weight, do the Cubs still exercise the 16.5M option for 2021? Yes, mainly for the reason Joe stated along with the fact that he is potentially going to be a Cub for life. Still very productive
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Post by GoCubsGo4ever on Jul 11, 2020 10:59:17 GMT -5
If Rizzo still continues to have back problems even after losing weight, do the Cubs still exercise the 16.5M option for 2021? Yes, mainly for the reason Joe stated along with the fact that he is potentially going to be a Cub for life. Still very productive Yes, I hope Rizzo will be a Cub for life! In fact, I really hope we can keep all 3 of Rizzo, KB, and Javy (wishful thinking?).
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Post by fine09 on Jul 11, 2020 14:25:23 GMT -5
Yes, mainly for the reason Joe stated along with the fact that he is potentially going to be a Cub for life. Still very productive Yes, I hope Rizzo will be a Cub for life! In fact, I really hope we can keep all 3 of Rizzo, KB, and Javy (wishful thinking?). Probably wishful thinking indeed but I'm right there with you. Maybe with the "Covid discount syndrome" (sorry but you know the uncertainty it brings) they become signable long term. You can throw Schwarber in their for me as well..
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Post by idontcare on Jul 12, 2020 12:00:29 GMT -5
If Rizzo still continues to have back problems even after losing weight, do the Cubs still exercise the 16.5M option for 2021? That isn't a serious question is it? Unless Rizzo requires major back surgery this season or in the offseason the Cubs will pick up his option.
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Post by batman66 on Jul 12, 2020 12:15:29 GMT -5
The ONLY way they dont pick up his option is if they sign him to an extension instead. He has had the back flare ups almost every season and he is still money in the bank for close to 30 and 100 and GG caliber D. I hope this wasnt a serious question and just more of a conversation starter.
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Post by tehmpus on Jul 12, 2020 13:41:17 GMT -5
Yes, mainly for the reason Joe stated along with the fact that he is potentially going to be a Cub for life. Still very productive Yes, I hope Rizzo will be a Cub for life! In fact, I really hope we can keep all 3 of Rizzo, KB, and Javy (wishful thinking?). Quite frankly, it IS wishful thinking. The Cubs don't have an unlimited supply of money. Now players like Rizzo and Schwarber might be willing to take a team deal, but Bryant just wants his max dollars. I'm not sure on Baez at this point. What do you think of Baez' intentions?
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Post by batman66 on Jul 12, 2020 14:31:56 GMT -5
I dont feel KB wants "max dollars " . I think fair market value would keep him around. Javy and the fact they have danced around already about an extension makes me feel they think its more probable/ possible than locking up KB. I would love them to keep both, I dont think they will,but they better at least keep one of them or I will be very pissed. I think drafting Howard might have given them a little edge with Javy becsuse now they do have a legit possible replacement .
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Post by tehmpus on Jul 13, 2020 6:05:45 GMT -5
I dont feel KB wants "max dollars " . I think fair market value would keep him around. Javy and the fact they have danced around already about an extension makes me feel they think its more probable/ possible than locking up KB. I would love them to keep both, I dont think they will,but they better at least keep one of them or I will be very pissed. I think drafting Howard might have given them a little edge with Javy becsuse now they do have a legit possible replacement . The Cubs actually have quite a few "shortstops" in the system. I put that in quotes because who knows how many of them will stay agile enough to remain at shortstop as they get older. Quickness and Agility with age seems like one of the reasons that Latinos have an advantage at that position. As for Bryant, I'm not sure if you realize, but we seem to be speaking the exact say thing but with different words. "Fair market value" essentially means that if a player hit the open market with multiple teams bidding.... that the fair market value would be the result of the winning bid. That's exactly what I mean by "max dollars". I don't really see the Cubs doing that when we've got multiple stars looking for extension paydays. I'd rather have two or three other stars than just 1 Bryant. Seems more like a Bryce Harper situation to me, day by day. In your opinion, do you think we could keep Baez, Schwarber, and possibly Rizzo for the cost of 1 Bryant? Maybe.
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Post by idontcare on Jul 13, 2020 6:34:57 GMT -5
I dont feel KB wants "max dollars " . I think fair market value would keep him around. Javy and the fact they have danced around already about an extension makes me feel they think its more probable/ possible than locking up KB. I would love them to keep both, I dont think they will,but they better at least keep one of them or I will be very pissed. I think drafting Howard might have given them a little edge with Javy becsuse now they do have a legit possible replacement . The Cubs actually have quite a few "shortstops" in the system. I put that in quotes because who knows how many of them will stay agile enough to remain at shortstop as they get older. Quickness and Agility with age seems like one of the reasons that Latinos have an advantage at that position. As for Bryant, I'm not sure if you realize, but we seem to be speaking the exact say thing but with different words. "Fair market value" essentially means that if a player hit the open market with multiple teams bidding.... that the fair market value would be the result of the winning bid. That's exactly what I mean by "max dollars". I don't really see the Cubs doing that when we've got multiple stars looking for extension paydays. I'd rather have two or three other stars than just 1 Bryant. Seems more like a Bryce Harper situation to me, day by day. In your opinion, do you think we could keep Baez, Schwarber, and possibly Rizzo for the cost of 1 Bryant? Maybe. Nice attempt to use a racism as a complement.
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Post by fine09 on Jul 13, 2020 8:28:51 GMT -5
I dont feel KB wants "max dollars " . I think fair market value would keep him around. Javy and the fact they have danced around already about an extension makes me feel they think its more probable/ possible than locking up KB. I would love them to keep both, I dont think they will,but they better at least keep one of them or I will be very pissed. I think drafting Howard might have given them a little edge with Javy becsuse now they do have a legit possible replacement . The Cubs actually have quite a few "shortstops" in the system. I put that in quotes because who knows how many of them will stay agile enough to remain at shortstop as they get older. Quickness and Agility with age seems like one of the reasons that Latinos have an advantage at that position. As for Bryant, I'm not sure if you realize, but we seem to be speaking the exact say thing but with different words. "Fair market value" essentially means that if a player hit the open market with multiple teams bidding.... that the fair market value would be the result of the winning bid. That's exactly what I mean by "max dollars". I don't really see the Cubs doing that when we've got multiple stars looking for extension paydays. I'd rather have two or three other stars than just 1 Bryant. Seems more like a Bryce Harper situation to me, day by day. In your opinion, do you think we could keep Baez, Schwarber, and possibly Rizzo for the cost of 1 Bryant? Maybe. "Quickness and Agility with age seems like one of the reasons that Latinos have an advantage at that position." This is at a minimum stereotyping & will be taken as a racist comment whether it was meant that way or not. Max. dollars & fair market value are different. Max. value is as you said, the highest offer of 3 or 4 - but fair market value (to me) is more of the average of the 3 or 4 best offers. I also believe the Covid situation has changed the thinking & put more importance on "safety, trust, friends, family & home" than the biggest bucks available.. I don't think they can keep them all & no, KB will cost much less that the combo of those 3 guys IMO.
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Post by rvn11 on Jul 13, 2020 8:49:11 GMT -5
I don't know the extent of the Rizzo injury, but I've got a feeling this is all more precautionary than anything. If you've ever had a bad back, simply losing weight won't fix things. It will help but it's not a guaranteed fix. My hope is that it was just a little twinge or tweak to the back and rather than lose him for a week or two mid season and miss 1/4 of the year, they're getting him the rest for it to heal up right now so he's healthy through October.
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Post by jerm42991 on Jul 13, 2020 9:49:21 GMT -5
While I agree there is zero chance they don’t pick up his option, it does make you question a long term extension. Back issues dont get better with age, and it could be something that eventually catches up to him
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 13, 2020 9:54:27 GMT -5
No chance the Cubs let Rizzo walk after 2020 IMO.
Also, those talking about contracts, owners will argue the new day of money we live in, but players won't allow 2020 to dictate how they get paid for the next 10 years, no chance. Maybe we see more opt outs, but IMO no way Mookie Betts signs a 150 million contract in 2020, when in 2022 with a new CBA (hopefully) and COVID either gone or having a vaccine, MLB being a cash cow again. As a player, I wouldn't and as an agent, I wouldn't let me 27-30 year old FA either, that's my opinion.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 13, 2020 9:56:29 GMT -5
While I agree there is zero chance they don’t pick up his option, it does make you question a long term extension. Back issues dont get better with age, and it could be something that eventually catches up to him I can see more of a 3-4 year extension with options, but nothing longer than that for Rizzo. There's really no one in the system behind Rizzo at 1b and unless they intend on moving someone there on the current roster, and I don't think there is, they'll keep Rizzo around for a little bit more. Cubs still have to put butts in the seats during a new "rebuild" and whether that's Javy or Rizzo or both, I think Rizzo still gets locked up.
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Post by batman66 on Jul 13, 2020 10:04:20 GMT -5
I dont feel KB wants "max dollars " . I think fair market value would keep him around. Javy and the fact they have danced around already about an extension makes me feel they think its more probable/ possible than locking up KB. I would love them to keep both, I dont think they will,but they better at least keep one of them or I will be very pissed. I think drafting Howard might have given them a little edge with Javy becsuse now they do have a legit possible replacement . The Cubs actually have quite a few "shortstops" in the system. I put that in quotes because who knows how many of them will stay agile enough to remain at shortstop as they get older. Quickness and Agility with age seems like one of the reasons that Latinos have an advantage at that position. As for Bryant, I'm not sure if you realize, but we seem to be speaking the exact say thing but with different words. "Fair market value" essentially means that if a player hit the open market with multiple teams bidding.... that the fair market value would be the result of the winning bid. That's exactly what I mean by "max dollars". I don't really see the Cubs doing that when we've got multiple stars looking for extension paydays. I'd rather have two or three other stars than just 1 Bryant. Seems more like a Bryce Harper situation to me, day by day. In your opinion, do you think we could keep Baez, Schwarber, and possibly Rizzo for the cost of 1 Bryant? Maybe. I know they had a few solid shortstops in the system prior to drafting Howard , but none had a ceiling to the point of coming close to replace a guy like Baez as an all star caliber player. Now they have Howard and more than likely also will have Christian Hernandez . I know Hernandez is only 16 and would take a while to be in Chicago , but that is two elite caliber possible replacements for Javy. So I think it's possible the thought they had of Javy being the one they lock up might be looked at differently now after snagging those two. I don't think they can get those three for what KB would cost. Javy is not going to come cheap . I think maybe Javy and Schwarbs for the price of KB , I'm not even sure they could get Javy and Rizzo for what KB would cost let alone throw Schwarber in there.
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Post by batman66 on Jul 13, 2020 10:11:03 GMT -5
While I agree there is zero chance they don’t pick up his option, it does make you question a long term extension. Back issues dont get better with age, and it could be something that eventually catches up to him I can see more of a 3-4 year extension with options, but nothing longer than that for Rizzo. There's really no one in the system behind Rizzo at 1b and unless they intend on moving someone there on the current roster, and I don't think there is, they'll keep Rizzo around for a little bit more. Cubs still have to put butts in the seats during a new "rebuild" and whether that's Javy or Rizzo or both, I think Rizzo still gets locked up. Well Happ would be a legit option at 1b and if they somehow can keep Bryant he would be too. Move KB to 1b, Baez to 3b when Howard is ready. Caratini is also an option when the catching picture could get more cluttered..
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 13, 2020 10:16:19 GMT -5
I think Javy is still priority #1. Hernandez and IMO Howard are probably now 6-7 years away. Howard didn't play his senior year and with no minor league season this year he's still going to be behind. If Javy signed an 8 year extension, by the time any of those guys are ready, if Javy is still very productive, he can always move back to 2b.
Just listening to Boras, I can't see any of this clients excepting the reasoning that players should just sign "COVID" extensions.
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Post by Returnofstevefitz on Jul 13, 2020 10:19:48 GMT -5
I can see more of a 3-4 year extension with options, but nothing longer than that for Rizzo. There's really no one in the system behind Rizzo at 1b and unless they intend on moving someone there on the current roster, and I don't think there is, they'll keep Rizzo around for a little bit more. Cubs still have to put butts in the seats during a new "rebuild" and whether that's Javy or Rizzo or both, I think Rizzo still gets locked up. Well Happ would be a legit option at 1b and if they somehow can keep Bryant he would be too. Move KB to 1b, Baez to 3b when Howard is ready. Caratini is also an option when the catching picture could get more cluttered.. Like I said, the Cubs are better off just extending Rizzo and keeping him at 1B. I think Rizzo would probably be realistic about what an extension would look like for him at age 32.
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